Vam people, how common are 2 VAMS on one coin?

BigE

Found a 21 Morgan with infrequent edge reeding and extra berries too! Will anacs list both on the holder?-Thanks--------BigE

nesvt

I think the IR 21-P comes in two flavors. The D1 reverse has 17 berries, the D2 reverse has 16.

BigE

It has 16 berries--BigE

BigE

Or maybe its 17, one of the berries is on top of the leaf-----BigE

Yale68

No such thing as two VAM's on one coin. It may have two characteristics that are not "normal", but its still one VAM. By the way, all infrequently reeded 1921 coins have 17 berries.

VamGuy

<< <i>I think the IR 21-P comes in two flavors. The D1 reverse has 17 berries, the D2 reverse has 16. >>

Yes, but there's only one known variety with the D2 reverse, the VAM 44, discovered in 2004.

44 IV 35 • D2a (Infrequently Reeded, Doubled Profile) (157) I-5 R-6
Obverse IV 35– Slightly doubled and tripled profile including front of LIBERTY band, hair above forehead, nose, lips, chin and neck. Very slightly tripled right stars and 6 & 7 left stars.
Reverse D2a– First reported D2 reverse with I.R. reeding. Die markers– Horizontal polishing line thru eagle’s right wing fourth and ninth outside feather from wing bottom. Edge– Infrequently reeded variety.



Let us know if this is what you have and post a photo.

BigE

I see now, if a coin has characteristics of 2 different vams, it is a vam of its own. This coin appears to be a D1, because it has doubling in STATES, 17 berries and infrequent edge reeding----------BigE

ibzman350

Okay.....so I'm confused.......................my discovery coin 1921 VAM57 & 57A is not 2 VAMs on one coin???















Herb

DMWJR

VAM is an attribution number identifying the set of dies that struck the coin. You would never have two numbers identify the same coin. Sometimes die states give rise to new attributes on a coin which will give it a "sub" or different VAM number, but again, you won't have two numbers for the same coin. Would you put two Snow numbers on an Indian Cent? Two FS numbers for the same coin?

Large cents, half cents, busties, etc. have all been collected like this. A VAM is not a "thing" on a coin.

jdsinva

<< <i>Okay.....so I'm confused.......................my discovery coin 1921 VAM57 & 57A is not 2 VAMs on one coin??? >>



I believe the cracks are just indicative of a different die state, hence a v57A and not an entirely new number.

ibzman350

Understood........................I think.





Herb

DennisH

"No such thing as two VAMs on one coin."

Not so. What about the 1880-O VAM 49?

If all it had was the overdate feature it would be a VAM 6.
If all it had was the Hangnail feature it would be a VAM 48.

But VAM 49 has both features, which makes it twice as neat!

BigE

But the two vams together make it a vam 49 so it is still only one vam -------BigE

messydesk

<< <i>Okay.....so I'm confused.......................my discovery coin 1921 VAM57 & 57A is not 2 VAMs on one coin??? >>


That's an interesting case in that the discovery was on a late die state of a die pair that hadn't yet been cataloged. The discovery coin is a VAM 57A. It's assumed based on the characteristics of the dies that don't include die damage that an earlier die state coin exists, which would be called VAM 57 once it is found.

messydesk

<< <i>Found a 21 Morgan with infrequent edge reeding and extra berries too! Will anacs list both on the holder?-Thanks--------BigE >>


There are many different VAMs for the infrequent reeding. 4, 13, 25, 26, 27, 27A, 28, and 29 all have 17 berries, VAM 44 has 16 and is considered the rarest.

ibzman350

<< <i>

<< <i>Okay.....so I'm confused.......................my discovery coin 1921 VAM57 & 57A is not 2 VAMs on one coin??? >>


That's an interesting case in that the discovery was on a late die state of a die pair that hadn't yet been cataloged. The discovery coin is a VAM 57A. It's assumed based on the characteristics of the dies that don't include die damage that an earlier die state coin exists, which would be called VAM 57 once it is found. >>





Thank you John....................I think the light bulb just went on.







Herb

nesvt

Herb, the same thing happened to me with the 21-S 15A. The 21-S 15 hadn't been discovered yet, so Leroy sent me two VAM ids. The 21-S 15 had doubled STATES, and the 15A (my actual coin) also had a clashed N and S. Never was sure if I discovered two or one... seeing I don't actually have a 21-S 15.

messydesk

There's another example of a coin that Leroy has cataloged that definitely doesn't exist. When I discovered the 1921-D VAM 12A, he cataloged both the VAM 12 and 12A. Later, I reported the reverse of the 12A with a different obverse, which was then called VAM 1AN (I think). The VAM 1AN reverse is slightly earlier than the VAM 12A, but still has the die break of the 12A. Therefore, the VAM 12 as the unbroken reverse die state of the VAM 12A, doesn't exist, although if the reverse die was later replaced with one free of distinguishing marks, it would then be cataloged as VAM 12.