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Ok--Here's the question Kirby or Killebrew?

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The scenario: You are the new Owner, President, General Manager, Manager
of a new team......you are down to your last pick for you team.....your choices?

Kirby Puckett or Harmon Killebrew (Both in their prime!). All Hypothetical, of course.

Who would you pick and a few reasons (Or just a couple) WHY....

(Just want to see opinions, this is not a TEST! image )

I gotta get some zzzzzzzzzzzz'ss....I will check this out tomorrow!

GOODNIGHT ALL!
Tony
aka KalineFan

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Comments

  • Of course, it would depend on the makeup of rest of the team, the ballpark we'd be playing in, etc., but in general I'd have to go with Puckett as an all around ballplayer. Great catalyst, solid D, smart baserunner, tremendous in the clutch. A centerpiece in 2 World Championships. The Killer would be nice if we already had plenty of table setters, but he seems too one dimensional.
  • WondoWondo Posts: 2,916 ✭✭✭
    I don't think it is close.
    Harmon Killeb ew was a much more devastatinge player for 10 years or so. Pucket was awesome, but nothing is as imortant as HR and OBA in baseball. Killebrew, although hitting .75 points lower, got on base more and had gigagious power. HK played in a pither's era.

    Kirby was a great ballplayer, but Harmon was one of the most powerful suggers to ever play.

    I'd take Killebrew any day!!
    Wondo

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a tough one. Harmon is my all time favorite player, but Puckett was so good defensively it's almost impossible to pick.

    I would take Killebrew because of his consistant power numbers and on base percentage.

    Both players were robbed of some good years, Killebrew because of the "bonus" rule that kept him on the bench for two years at the beginning of his career and Pucket's losing the sight in an eye.

    Either player would be a great choice.

    JoeBanzai
    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Puckett hands down. Better player all around.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
  • fiveninerfiveniner Posts: 4,109 ✭✭✭
    Killebrew was a run producing machine one of the best by far.Puckett was great in his own right also however I have to go with Killebrew by a nose.
    Tony(AN ANGEL WATCHES OVER ME)
  • jimtbjimtb Posts: 704 ✭✭
    No question - Killebrew.
    Collecting all graded Alan Trammell graded cards as well as graded 1984 Topps, Donruss, and Fleer Detroit Tigers
    image
  • Killebrew is probably the most powerful homerun hitter of alltime. Look at where he hit his homers in that spacious ballpark in minny. you had to be paul bunyoun to hit homers in that park. does anyone know the dimensions of that ballpark where the killer played. And this last comment no steroids. Thanks Harmon your are an American hero.
  • Carew29Carew29 Posts: 4,026 ✭✭

    If i found the right source, here are the measurements for the Old Ball Park prior to the dome.

    Dimensions 355L, 370LC, 345C, 350RC, 345R
  • Dimensions: Left field: 329 (1961), 330 (1962), 344 (1965), 346 (1967), 330 (1975), 343 (1977); short left center: 365 (1961); 360 (1966), 373 (1972), 350 (1975), 346 (1976), 360 (1977); deep left center: 402 (1961), 435 (1965), 430 (1968), 410 (1975), 406 (1976); deepest left center corner: 430 (1965), 406 (1975); center field: 412 (1961), 430 (1965), 425 (1968), 410 (1975), 402 (1977); deepest right center corner: 430 (1965); deepest right center: 402 (1961), 435 (1965), 430 (1968), 410 (1977); short right center: 365 (1961), 373 (1968), 365 (1972), 370 (1977); right field: 329 (1961), 330 (1962); backstop: 60.

  • I like killebrews OBP .376 to Pucketts .360. But then again, I like Pucketts average. I would have liked to have seen Killebrew play and compare how he is in the clutch. Its hard to imagine hed be better at that than Puckett o' Chicken.
    Now looking for a 1950 Bowman Baseball Box as pictured below.
    image
  • estangestang Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭
    Puckett.

    All the intangibles he broght to the ball-club with his attitude was contangious. One of the most respected players to play with or against in the history of the game. Not to mention he was clutch.

    Puckett won 2 World Series and 4-0 in post-season series. Killebrew was 0-3 in post-season series and batted .250 -- just 6 points below his career average.

    His OBP is higher than Puckett's, but very mis-leading. He was walked so much because there wasn't enough quality hitters behind him.

    For me, it's not even close. Too young to have watched Killebrew. Puckett is and was considered widely the "Greatest Twin Ever".

    Killebrew was great, but I'd take Puckett all day long.

    As for Metropolitan Stadium, according to Baseball Reference its "Ballpark rating was 103. Anything above 100 favored batters". The Metrodome rated 101 -- not as many home runs were hit there as you'd think.

    I'll take this Twins Lineup (players in their prime, with the requirement that they had to come out of Twins farm system and had their best years in a Twins uniform):

    1. 2B Rod Carew
    2. C Joe Maurer (great discipline/eye & will easily be best Twins catcher ever)
    3. OF Tony Oliva
    4. 3B Harmon Killebrew
    5. OF Kirby Puckett
    6. 1B Kent Hrbek
    7. OF Lyman Bostock (took away too soon)
    8. DH Bob Allison (feared slugger)
    9. SS Greg Gagne (great defense, some speed, and a little pop --- 2 WS rings)

    My bench would be:

    IF Gary Gaetti (great defense and infectious personality)
    IF Chuck Knoblauch (great contact hitter with some speed)
    C AJ Pierzynski (interesting how Puckett would reign him in)
    C Earl Battey
    OF Torri Hunter
    OF Cesar Tovar

    My Pitching would be:

    SP Jim Kaat
    SP Bert Blyleven
    SP Frank Viola
    SP Johan Santana
    SP Camilo Pascual (stack this rotation against any other franchise best)
    RP Brad Radke
    RP Jesse Crain
    RP Eddie Guardado
    RP Bill Campbell
    RP LaTroy Hawkins (stack this bullpen as one of the worst franchise best)

    Manager: Billy Martin
    Coaches: Roy Terwilliger, Tom Kelly
    Bat Boy: Me




    Enjoy your collection!
    Erik
  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,103 ✭✭✭✭✭
    estang -

    great picks for the all-time team - I was especially glad to see Bob Allison in at DH.

    Regarding Puckett and Killebrew, I've seen quite a bit said about their OBP and BA, but not much about their slugging. Obviously, Killebrew has the advantage there and in my opinion that puts him over the top in a head-to-head comparison with Puckett. Career OPS+ advantage of 19 points for Killebrew and he maintained that over a career that included 2,000 more plate appearances. And, Puckett's peak OPS+ was 152; Killebrew has six seasons better than that up to a peak of 179.

    Better at his peak, better over the course of his career AND a longer career: cast my vote for Killebrew by a comfortable margin.
    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Killebrew.


    Fwiw.............

    I'd take Oliva before Puckett too.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Steve,

    Couldn't agree more--would clearly take Killebrew and Oliva over Puckett.

    Also would have Zoilo Versalles leading off over Greg Gagne.

    Lyman Bostock would have been a star--but I would go with Jimmy Hall or maybe Hunter.

    Jim
  • estangestang Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭
    Jim,

    Agree that Jimmie Hall had a nice 4 year stint with Minny. However, Bostock batted .318 in those 2 and 1/2 seasons, and unfotunately Calvin Griffith dumped all his star players. Someone has to champion who Lyman Bostock was, and I'm happy to be that voice.

    I've read Zoilo Versalles was a bit aloof, and could barely read/write. Plus he had a .956 fielding average compared to Gagne @ .972. I'd have to take the stronger defense, proven clutch in playoffs, considering their similar averages.

    The guy I'd like on that team is David Ortiz, because he's left handed and has power. Despite his superior years in Red Sox uniform, he did come up as a Twin and had that great clubhouse personality. I'd probably dump Pierzynski and put Ortiz on the bench.

    I'd like to have Nathan, Aguilera or Reardon on that team. However, I'm going to limit it to "home grown" Twins players. I'd stack this team up against other franchises from 1960 onward. I'd rather focus on the talent and franchise aspects, and eliminate the free agency/business aspects of baseball. George Steinbrenner can put away his checkbook, and build his scouting department.
    Enjoy your collection!
    Erik
  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,076 ✭✭✭
    I'd definitely put Zoilo's '65 season over anything Gagne put up- and with that lineup the speed would be a good thing. Get Carew and Versailles on base and then bring up the big guns- the middle of the lineup is going to see a lot more fastballs with those two taking big leads.

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's

  • estangestang Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭
    I've found this all-time franchise roster to be fun to assemble. Here's my take on Atlanta Braves (1966 to present). Once again, you have to come up through the Atlanta Braves franchise or came over from Milwaukee franchise. Dale Murphy is the back-up catcher on this team. Too many good bats to eliminate. Bruce Benedict is one of the best Atlanta Braves catchers ever, but his offensive production doesn't stack anywhere near anyone else on the team (except maybe Lemke --- but he was Mr. November).

    Lineup Position Player Batting Team Years
    1 CF Andruw Jones Right Atlanta Braves 1996-2006
    2 2B Marcus Giles Right Atlanta Braves 2001-2006
    3 3B Chipper Jones Switch Atlanta Braves 1993-2006
    4 RF Hank Aaron Right Atlanta Braves 1966-1974
    5 LF Dale Murphy Right Atlanta Braves 1976-1990
    6 DH Bob Horner Right Atlanta Braves 1978-1986
    7 C Javy Lopez Right Atlanta Braves 1992-2004
    8 1B Ryan Klesko Left Atlanta Braves 1992-1999
    9 SS Jeff Blauser Right Atlanta Braves 1987-1997

    Bench Position Player Batting Team Years
    IF Felix Millan Right Atlanta Braves 1966-1972
    IF Mark Lemke Right Atlanta Braves 1988-1997
    OF Ralph Garr Left Atlanta Braves 1968-1975
    OF David Justice Right Atlanta Braves 1989-1996
    OF Jeff Francouer Right Atlanta Braves 2005-2006
    OF/IF Ron Gant Right Atlanta Braves 1987-1993

    Rotation Position Player Pitching Team Years
    1 SP Phil Niekro Right Atlanta Braves 1966-1983
    2 SP Tom Glavine Left Atlanta Braves 1987-2002
    3 SP John Smoltz Right Atlanta Braves 1988-2006
    4 SP Kevin Millwood Right Atlanta Braves 1997-2002
    5 SP Rick Mahler Right Atlanta Braves 1979-1988
    Long RP Kent Mercker Left Atlanta Braves 1989-1995
    Setup RP Steve Avery Left Atlanta Braves 1990-1996
    Setup RP John Rocker Left Atlanta Braves 1998-2001
    Close RP Steve Bedrosian Right Atlanta Braves 1981-1985
    Close RP Mark Wohlers Right Atlanta Braves 1991-1999

    Coaches Position Player Team
    MGR Bobby Cox Atlanta Braves
    1B Coach Glenn Hubbard Atlanta Braves
    3B Coach Joe Torre Atlanta Braves
    P Coach Leo Mazzone Atlanta Braves

    just miss
    1B/3B Darrell Evans Atlanta Braves
    2B Glenn Hubbard Atlanta Braves
    OF Rico Carty Atlanta Braves
    OF Dusty Baker Atlanta Braves
    C Bruce Benedict Atlanta Braves
    Enjoy your collection!
    Erik
  • DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Estang-

    But the tiebreaker on Jimmie Hall vs. Bostock is that Hall got traded even up later in his career for the best center fielder of all time. That alone should put him in the starting lineup.

    Davalillo
  • I am going to have to say I would take Killebrew over Puckett by a close but comfortable margin.
    Steve


    I am looking to build my already growing Collection of the "GREATEST PITCHER IN MLB HISTORY" Nolan Ryan, DUH!!!

    I have just started to collect Autographed memorabilia that I have gotten in person.

    ebay id: Scuba_steve19
    Texas5pt0@hotmail.com
  • theczartheczar Posts: 1,590 ✭✭
    estang you are a proud twins fan, but to say you would match that pitching staff against any other franchise would be a blow out against the twins. the puckett twins had the greatest home field advantage in world series history 8-0 home. 0-6 road. had those world series been in odd number years (pre '94 strike) back then when the series rotated they would have no rings. i think blyleven should be a hofer. but the rest will never come close including santana.

    just off of the top on my head
    dodgers:
    koufax
    drysale
    hersheiser
    sutton
    newcombe
    preacher roe

    yankees
    ford
    guidry
    petite
    gomez
    stotlemyre
    ruffing

    cardinals
    gibson
    dean
    alexander
    forsch
    brecheen
    and if you are using santana i'll use carpenter

    mets
    seaver
    koosman
    gooden
    cone
    darling

    phillies
    carlton
    schilling
    alexander
    roberts
    short




  • grilloj39grilloj39 Posts: 370 ✭✭
    I do not think it is close...when you combine power, clutch hitting, hitting, speed, defense, intangibles no doubt Kirby Puckett...thanks to him, the Twins have 2 world series championships.
    Gold Coins
    Silver Coins

    e-bay ID: grilloj39
    e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
  • estangestang Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭
    Czar,

    First, this is great debate material. Remember, the staff has to consist of folks that came up in that team's franchise and I stipulate since 1961, I'll take that Twins starting pitching staff against anyone.

    Given these stipulations, Carlton is not on the Phillies. He's on the Cardinals, if you want 'em. That's a problem with my rules (but they're my rules, Maddux is on the Cubs, not the Braves). Remember, my rules prohibit free agency. It's about talent, scouting and home team loyalty.

    I would agree that Koufax, Drysdale, Sutton, Hersheiser is formidable. Preacher Roe is too old to qualify. If you want to go back beyond 1961, then I got Walter Johnson on my team and I trump the Dodgers -- hands down. But I don't.

    I'd also say a Yankees rotation of Guidry, Pettite, Whitey Ford is a very good 3-man rotation, but top-to-bottom, where's the rest of it. Ole' George hasn't developed anything in 20 years, minus Pettite. How about Brian Taylor.

    Now the Mets with Koosman, Seaver, Cone, Darling and say Nolan Ryan is top-tier.

    Dav --- you've stumped me on Jimmie Hall being traded for ???? Going blank here. Remember, I'm the bat boy for the Twins and in my prime (age 21), I've got influence with my manager, Billy Martin; over drinks at the bar. Hence, Bostock over Hall. Plus, I'm championing the Bostock legacy. Dave Boswell, depsite being pucnhed-out by Martin, is on the AAA Twins All-Time team, awaiting call-up

    There's no way I'm putting Versalles over Gagne. I saw Gagne first hand, and he was the glue defensively. My team plays great defense and is fundamental. Carew would be my weakest defender.

    Czar --- I will not argue that the Humpty Dome may have won them 2 World Series. Shoulda, coulda, woulda doesn't hold up in sports talk debate, though.
    Enjoy your collection!
    Erik
  • MJHMJH Posts: 538 ✭✭
    KILLEBREW RULES.
    Enough said.

    MJH

    Any one have a nice 1964 PSA 7 or PSA 8 #177 Killebrew for sale.
    Thanks
    MJH
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,086 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dav --- you've stumped me on Jimmie Hall being traded for ???? Going blank here. Remember, I'm the bat boy for the Twins and in my prime (age 21), I've got influence with my manager, Billy Martin; over drinks at the bar. Hence, Bostock over Hall. Plus, I'm championing the Bostock legacy. Dave Boswell, depsite being pucnhed-out by Martin, is on the AAA Twins All-Time team, awaiting call-up >>




    I think Dav is referring to this:

    June 15, 1968: Jimmie Hall traded by the California Angels to the Cleveland Indians for Vic Davalillo.



    Steve

  • Orioles staff

    Palmer
    McNally
    Mussina
    Schilling


    Four man rotation, this is real baseball, no pitch counts, no closers.

    Peace
    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • <<I do not think it is close...when you combine power, clutch hitting, hitting, speed, defense, intangibles no doubt Kirby Puckett...thanks to him, the Twins have 2 world series championships. >>


    image


    dont get me wrong killebrew was great and had good numbers but ALL AROUND puckett was always there in a clutch situation killebrew was not good under stress once on base for a little round guy puckett had speed and in the field a much btter play maker than killebrew. and team player every body respected him and listned. so nubers yeah take killebrew but for a champion I would take puckett.

    R.I.P
    Kirby Puckett
    1960-2006
  • <<In 1991, the Twins again found themselves trailing in the World Series three games to two, this time to Atlanta.
    But Puckett went around telling teammates to hop on his back for Game 6, that he would carry them to victory. Then he delivered two signature moments

    First, he made a leaping catch against the Metrodome's outfield Plexiglas in the third inning and robbed Ron Gant of an extra-base hit, saving a run from scoring.

    Then, in the 11th inning, Puckett became the ninth player in major league history to win a World Series game with a home run, hitting a changeup from Charlie Leibrandt over the outfield wall and pumping his arms in celebration as he rounded the bases.
    "You couldn't hear yourself think in the ballpark," former Twins hitting coach Terry Crowley said Monday. "Kirby was on deck. The manager went to the mound, and Kirby said to me, 'If they leave this guy in the game, the game is over.'

    "... Puckett hit a home run, rounded the bases, and as I went to shake hands with him, he gave me a bear hug and said, 'Crow, I told you!' That will stay in my mind forever.">>

    imageimage
  • my vote is for puckett. I probally i litle bias because I never saw killer play. Puckett was a clubhouse leader and his play would rub off on others i. e. shane mack.
    estang why pick billy martin as manager over kelly or gardy. Also it's Wayne Terwilliger not roy

    Side note: Oliva was puckett's batting coach 1984 - 1988 and he should be a HOFer
  • rbdjr1rbdjr1 Posts: 4,474 ✭✭
    I thought it would be interesting to also look at these two great players from a "collector's point of view" and look at PSA cards for these two great baseball players, since this is a psa/psa registry forum:

    Harmon Killebrew: imageimageimage

    1. Rookie Card: 1955 Topps #124 - (Once I owned a perfectly centered knockout killer PSA 9. Why it wasn't a PSA 10, I have no idea? Think it I sold it at a Superior auction for $1000, maybe $1500, I can't remember? SMR: now $ 5,750.00, yikes!)
    2. (21) Regular Topps cards issued (circa: 1955 to 1975)
    3. (6) O-Pee-Chee Cards issued (circa: 1966, 1970-1975)
    4. All kinds of other cards, post cards, and other PSA gradable collectable issued from 1959 to present day (i.e., '47-66 Exhibits, '75 Topps Mini, Milk Duds, Kellogg's, Bazooka, Post Cereal, Milton Bradley, various Venezuela Topps issues, Hall of Fame post cards, Topps Stand-up, Giants, Topps Coins, Peel-offs and more, plus a whole bunch of other coins, pins, cards, scratch-offs, post cards and more!

    Kirby Puckett: imageimage

    1. Rookie Cards: Compared to Killebrew, Kirby had a ton of great rookie cards (i.e., 1984 Fleer Update, 1985 Topps, OPC, Donruss, Fleer, Topps Tiffany, Leaf, Fleer Stickers)
    2. Looking at a PSA master set for Kirby Puckett (circa 1983-1996) there is just a ton of great items from a buntch of manufacters (topps, opc, fleer, donruss, bowman, pinnacle, pacific gold, leaf, upper deck, sportflics, sp holoview, flair, hostess, topps finest, just to name a few!

    From a vintage collector's point of view, Killebrew offers a huge variety of 21 years of great vintage material (circa 1955 to 1975).

    From a modern day collector's point of view. Kirby Puckett's large variety and readily available rookie cards from 1985, plus, just a ton of other Kirby Puckett cards from all his other years and beyond, as a baseball super star. Makes collecting fun and set collecting of this great player, affordable for the moderm collector and Kirby Puckett fans!

    Pick your poison!

    rd

    imageimageimageimageCLICK HERE AND LISTEN!! The Rolling Stones - Sympathy for the Devil imageimageimageimage


    image
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  • markj111markj111 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭
    Two factors have not been discussed much here.

    1. Puckett played in a much higher offense era. Killebrew spent most of his career before the mound was lowered.

    2. Puckett retired early because of his eye problems, thus he did not go through the decline phase of his career that would have lowered his OPS.

    Unless wife-beating is a category, I have to go with Killebrew.
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Puckett was good, Killerbrew was great.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • qualitycardsqualitycards Posts: 2,811 ✭✭✭
    I would go w/ the Killer as well...jay

    image
  • Killebrew without a doubt. Didn't play in the hitters era like Puckett.

    Puckett put up his stats against watered down pitching staffs, smaller parks, lowered mound, smaller strike zone.

    Give me the Killer any day.


    Peace

    Trying to complete 1970 psa set.
    45% complete.
  • A pitching staff for the 2006 NEW York Mets
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