Ok--Here's the question Kirby or Killebrew?
KalineFan
Posts: 868
The scenario: You are the new Owner, President, General Manager, Manager
of a new team......you are down to your last pick for you team.....your choices?
Kirby Puckett or Harmon Killebrew (Both in their prime!). All Hypothetical, of course.
Who would you pick and a few reasons (Or just a couple) WHY....
(Just want to see opinions, this is not a TEST!
)I gotta get some zzzzzzzzzzzz'ss....I will check this out tomorrow!
GOODNIGHT ALL!
Tony
aka KalineFan
0
Comments
Harmon Killeb ew was a much more devastatinge player for 10 years or so. Pucket was awesome, but nothing is as imortant as HR and OBA in baseball. Killebrew, although hitting .75 points lower, got on base more and had gigagious power. HK played in a pither's era.
Kirby was a great ballplayer, but Harmon was one of the most powerful suggers to ever play.
I'd take Killebrew any day!!
I would take Killebrew because of his consistant power numbers and on base percentage.
Both players were robbed of some good years, Killebrew because of the "bonus" rule that kept him on the bench for two years at the beginning of his career and Pucket's losing the sight in an eye.
Either player would be a great choice.
JoeBanzai
If i found the right source, here are the measurements for the Old Ball Park prior to the dome.
Dimensions 355L, 370LC, 345C, 350RC, 345R
All the intangibles he broght to the ball-club with his attitude was contangious. One of the most respected players to play with or against in the history of the game. Not to mention he was clutch.
Puckett won 2 World Series and 4-0 in post-season series. Killebrew was 0-3 in post-season series and batted .250 -- just 6 points below his career average.
His OBP is higher than Puckett's, but very mis-leading. He was walked so much because there wasn't enough quality hitters behind him.
For me, it's not even close. Too young to have watched Killebrew. Puckett is and was considered widely the "Greatest Twin Ever".
Killebrew was great, but I'd take Puckett all day long.
As for Metropolitan Stadium, according to Baseball Reference its "Ballpark rating was 103. Anything above 100 favored batters". The Metrodome rated 101 -- not as many home runs were hit there as you'd think.
I'll take this Twins Lineup (players in their prime, with the requirement that they had to come out of Twins farm system and had their best years in a Twins uniform):
1. 2B Rod Carew
2. C Joe Maurer (great discipline/eye & will easily be best Twins catcher ever)
3. OF Tony Oliva
4. 3B Harmon Killebrew
5. OF Kirby Puckett
6. 1B Kent Hrbek
7. OF Lyman Bostock (took away too soon)
8. DH Bob Allison (feared slugger)
9. SS Greg Gagne (great defense, some speed, and a little pop --- 2 WS rings)
My bench would be:
IF Gary Gaetti (great defense and infectious personality)
IF Chuck Knoblauch (great contact hitter with some speed)
C AJ Pierzynski (interesting how Puckett would reign him in)
C Earl Battey
OF Torri Hunter
OF Cesar Tovar
My Pitching would be:
SP Jim Kaat
SP Bert Blyleven
SP Frank Viola
SP Johan Santana
SP Camilo Pascual (stack this rotation against any other franchise best)
RP Brad Radke
RP Jesse Crain
RP Eddie Guardado
RP Bill Campbell
RP LaTroy Hawkins (stack this bullpen as one of the worst franchise best)
Manager: Billy Martin
Coaches: Roy Terwilliger, Tom Kelly
Bat Boy: Me
Erik
great picks for the all-time team - I was especially glad to see Bob Allison in at DH.
Regarding Puckett and Killebrew, I've seen quite a bit said about their OBP and BA, but not much about their slugging. Obviously, Killebrew has the advantage there and in my opinion that puts him over the top in a head-to-head comparison with Puckett. Career OPS+ advantage of 19 points for Killebrew and he maintained that over a career that included 2,000 more plate appearances. And, Puckett's peak OPS+ was 152; Killebrew has six seasons better than that up to a peak of 179.
Better at his peak, better over the course of his career AND a longer career: cast my vote for Killebrew by a comfortable margin.
Fwiw.............
I'd take Oliva before Puckett too.
Steve
Couldn't agree more--would clearly take Killebrew and Oliva over Puckett.
Also would have Zoilo Versalles leading off over Greg Gagne.
Lyman Bostock would have been a star--but I would go with Jimmy Hall or maybe Hunter.
Jim
Agree that Jimmie Hall had a nice 4 year stint with Minny. However, Bostock batted .318 in those 2 and 1/2 seasons, and unfotunately Calvin Griffith dumped all his star players. Someone has to champion who Lyman Bostock was, and I'm happy to be that voice.
I've read Zoilo Versalles was a bit aloof, and could barely read/write. Plus he had a .956 fielding average compared to Gagne @ .972. I'd have to take the stronger defense, proven clutch in playoffs, considering their similar averages.
The guy I'd like on that team is David Ortiz, because he's left handed and has power. Despite his superior years in Red Sox uniform, he did come up as a Twin and had that great clubhouse personality. I'd probably dump Pierzynski and put Ortiz on the bench.
I'd like to have Nathan, Aguilera or Reardon on that team. However, I'm going to limit it to "home grown" Twins players. I'd stack this team up against other franchises from 1960 onward. I'd rather focus on the talent and franchise aspects, and eliminate the free agency/business aspects of baseball. George Steinbrenner can put away his checkbook, and build his scouting department.
Erik
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Lineup Position Player Batting Team Years
1 CF Andruw Jones Right Atlanta Braves 1996-2006
2 2B Marcus Giles Right Atlanta Braves 2001-2006
3 3B Chipper Jones Switch Atlanta Braves 1993-2006
4 RF Hank Aaron Right Atlanta Braves 1966-1974
5 LF Dale Murphy Right Atlanta Braves 1976-1990
6 DH Bob Horner Right Atlanta Braves 1978-1986
7 C Javy Lopez Right Atlanta Braves 1992-2004
8 1B Ryan Klesko Left Atlanta Braves 1992-1999
9 SS Jeff Blauser Right Atlanta Braves 1987-1997
Bench Position Player Batting Team Years
IF Felix Millan Right Atlanta Braves 1966-1972
IF Mark Lemke Right Atlanta Braves 1988-1997
OF Ralph Garr Left Atlanta Braves 1968-1975
OF David Justice Right Atlanta Braves 1989-1996
OF Jeff Francouer Right Atlanta Braves 2005-2006
OF/IF Ron Gant Right Atlanta Braves 1987-1993
Rotation Position Player Pitching Team Years
1 SP Phil Niekro Right Atlanta Braves 1966-1983
2 SP Tom Glavine Left Atlanta Braves 1987-2002
3 SP John Smoltz Right Atlanta Braves 1988-2006
4 SP Kevin Millwood Right Atlanta Braves 1997-2002
5 SP Rick Mahler Right Atlanta Braves 1979-1988
Long RP Kent Mercker Left Atlanta Braves 1989-1995
Setup RP Steve Avery Left Atlanta Braves 1990-1996
Setup RP John Rocker Left Atlanta Braves 1998-2001
Close RP Steve Bedrosian Right Atlanta Braves 1981-1985
Close RP Mark Wohlers Right Atlanta Braves 1991-1999
Coaches Position Player Team
MGR Bobby Cox Atlanta Braves
1B Coach Glenn Hubbard Atlanta Braves
3B Coach Joe Torre Atlanta Braves
P Coach Leo Mazzone Atlanta Braves
just miss
1B/3B Darrell Evans Atlanta Braves
2B Glenn Hubbard Atlanta Braves
OF Rico Carty Atlanta Braves
OF Dusty Baker Atlanta Braves
C Bruce Benedict Atlanta Braves
Erik
But the tiebreaker on Jimmie Hall vs. Bostock is that Hall got traded even up later in his career for the best center fielder of all time. That alone should put him in the starting lineup.
Davalillo
I am looking to build my already growing Collection of the "GREATEST PITCHER IN MLB HISTORY" Nolan Ryan, DUH!!!
I have just started to collect Autographed memorabilia that I have gotten in person.
ebay id: Scuba_steve19
Texas5pt0@hotmail.com
just off of the top on my head
dodgers:
koufax
drysale
hersheiser
sutton
newcombe
preacher roe
yankees
ford
guidry
petite
gomez
stotlemyre
ruffing
cardinals
gibson
dean
alexander
forsch
brecheen
and if you are using santana i'll use carpenter
mets
seaver
koosman
gooden
cone
darling
phillies
carlton
schilling
alexander
roberts
short
Silver Coins
e-bay ID: grilloj39
e-mail: grilloj39@gmail.com
First, this is great debate material. Remember, the staff has to consist of folks that came up in that team's franchise and I stipulate since 1961, I'll take that Twins starting pitching staff against anyone.
Given these stipulations, Carlton is not on the Phillies. He's on the Cardinals, if you want 'em. That's a problem with my rules (but they're my rules, Maddux is on the Cubs, not the Braves). Remember, my rules prohibit free agency. It's about talent, scouting and home team loyalty.
I would agree that Koufax, Drysdale, Sutton, Hersheiser is formidable. Preacher Roe is too old to qualify. If you want to go back beyond 1961, then I got Walter Johnson on my team and I trump the Dodgers -- hands down. But I don't.
I'd also say a Yankees rotation of Guidry, Pettite, Whitey Ford is a very good 3-man rotation, but top-to-bottom, where's the rest of it. Ole' George hasn't developed anything in 20 years, minus Pettite. How about Brian Taylor.
Now the Mets with Koosman, Seaver, Cone, Darling and say Nolan Ryan is top-tier.
Dav --- you've stumped me on Jimmie Hall being traded for ???? Going blank here. Remember, I'm the bat boy for the Twins and in my prime (age 21), I've got influence with my manager, Billy Martin; over drinks at the bar. Hence, Bostock over Hall. Plus, I'm championing the Bostock legacy. Dave Boswell, depsite being pucnhed-out by Martin, is on the AAA Twins All-Time team, awaiting call-up
There's no way I'm putting Versalles over Gagne. I saw Gagne first hand, and he was the glue defensively. My team plays great defense and is fundamental. Carew would be my weakest defender.
Czar --- I will not argue that the Humpty Dome may have won them 2 World Series. Shoulda, coulda, woulda doesn't hold up in sports talk debate, though.
Erik
Enough said.
MJH
Any one have a nice 1964 PSA 7 or PSA 8 #177 Killebrew for sale.
Thanks
MJH
<< <i>Dav --- you've stumped me on Jimmie Hall being traded for ???? Going blank here. Remember, I'm the bat boy for the Twins and in my prime (age 21), I've got influence with my manager, Billy Martin; over drinks at the bar. Hence, Bostock over Hall. Plus, I'm championing the Bostock legacy. Dave Boswell, depsite being pucnhed-out by Martin, is on the AAA Twins All-Time team, awaiting call-up >>
I think Dav is referring to this:
June 15, 1968: Jimmie Hall traded by the California Angels to the Cleveland Indians for Vic Davalillo.
Steve
Palmer
McNally
Mussina
Schilling
Four man rotation, this is real baseball, no pitch counts, no closers.
Peace
45% complete.
dont get me wrong killebrew was great and had good numbers but ALL AROUND puckett was always there in a clutch situation killebrew was not good under stress once on base for a little round guy puckett had speed and in the field a much btter play maker than killebrew. and team player every body respected him and listned. so nubers yeah take killebrew but for a champion I would take puckett.
R.I.P
Kirby Puckett
1960-2006
But Puckett went around telling teammates to hop on his back for Game 6, that he would carry them to victory. Then he delivered two signature moments
First, he made a leaping catch against the Metrodome's outfield Plexiglas in the third inning and robbed Ron Gant of an extra-base hit, saving a run from scoring.
Then, in the 11th inning, Puckett became the ninth player in major league history to win a World Series game with a home run, hitting a changeup from Charlie Leibrandt over the outfield wall and pumping his arms in celebration as he rounded the bases.
"You couldn't hear yourself think in the ballpark," former Twins hitting coach Terry Crowley said Monday. "Kirby was on deck. The manager went to the mound, and Kirby said to me, 'If they leave this guy in the game, the game is over.'
"... Puckett hit a home run, rounded the bases, and as I went to shake hands with him, he gave me a bear hug and said, 'Crow, I told you!' That will stay in my mind forever.">>
estang why pick billy martin as manager over kelly or gardy. Also it's Wayne Terwilliger not roy
Side note: Oliva was puckett's batting coach 1984 - 1988 and he should be a HOFer
Harmon Killebrew:
1. Rookie Card: 1955 Topps #124 - (Once I owned a perfectly centered knockout killer PSA 9. Why it wasn't a PSA 10, I have no idea? Think it I sold it at a Superior auction for $1000, maybe $1500, I can't remember? SMR: now $ 5,750.00, yikes!)
2. (21) Regular Topps cards issued (circa: 1955 to 1975)
3. (6) O-Pee-Chee Cards issued (circa: 1966, 1970-1975)
4. All kinds of other cards, post cards, and other PSA gradable collectable issued from 1959 to present day (i.e., '47-66 Exhibits, '75 Topps Mini, Milk Duds, Kellogg's, Bazooka, Post Cereal, Milton Bradley, various Venezuela Topps issues, Hall of Fame post cards, Topps Stand-up, Giants, Topps Coins, Peel-offs and more, plus a whole bunch of other coins, pins, cards, scratch-offs, post cards and more!
Kirby Puckett:
1. Rookie Cards: Compared to Killebrew, Kirby had a ton of great rookie cards (i.e., 1984 Fleer Update, 1985 Topps, OPC, Donruss, Fleer, Topps Tiffany, Leaf, Fleer Stickers)
2. Looking at a PSA master set for Kirby Puckett (circa 1983-1996) there is just a ton of great items from a buntch of manufacters (topps, opc, fleer, donruss, bowman, pinnacle, pacific gold, leaf, upper deck, sportflics, sp holoview, flair, hostess, topps finest, just to name a few!
From a vintage collector's point of view, Killebrew offers a huge variety of 21 years of great vintage material (circa 1955 to 1975).
From a modern day collector's point of view. Kirby Puckett's large variety and readily available rookie cards from 1985, plus, just a ton of other Kirby Puckett cards from all his other years and beyond, as a baseball super star. Makes collecting fun and set collecting of this great player, affordable for the moderm collector and Kirby Puckett fans!
Pick your poison!
rd
Quicksilver Messenger Service - Smokestack Lightning (Live) 1968
Quicksilver Messenger Service - The Hat (Live) 1971
1. Puckett played in a much higher offense era. Killebrew spent most of his career before the mound was lowered.
2. Puckett retired early because of his eye problems, thus he did not go through the decline phase of his career that would have lowered his OPS.
Unless wife-beating is a category, I have to go with Killebrew.
Steve
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Puckett put up his stats against watered down pitching staffs, smaller parks, lowered mound, smaller strike zone.
Give me the Killer any day.
Peace
45% complete.