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PAYPAL QUESTION FOR YOU GUYS

Ok, hypothetically. I sell you a card for 1000 dollars. I ship it priority with signature confirmation, it gets lost in the mail and you never get it.

Am I liable and can you get your money back because it was never delivered or cus I used signature confirmation am I covered?
Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.

Comments

  • If you can't prove the buyer got it . He gets his money back and you are liable
  • LWMMLWMM Posts: 471
    Did you offer insurance?
    image
    Looking for Jonny Gomes cards, especially Triple Threads and printing plates. Will consider all cards, though. Got something? Contact me at c_u_l_1@yahoo.com
  • SouthsiderSouthsider Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭
    It all depends on the difference between shipment and delivery.

    Under the UCC, shipment usually refers to the situation where title transfers to the buyer when the goods leave the seller's hands and are in transit. Sometimes also called F.O.B.
    When goods are delivered the title does not transfer until the goods are in possession of the buyer.

    The difference determines which party bears the risk of loss.

    I think paypal requires proof of delivery. So, in your hypothetical, you are responsible because the goods were not delivered and according to paypal's policies, you bear the risk of non-delivery.
  • I didnt offer insurance... If I would have and he declined am I liable? I am just curious... It hasnt been lost yet, I just sent it todayimage
    Always collecting vintage basketball and any ABA memorabilia.
  • nightcrawlernightcrawler Posts: 5,110 ✭✭
    If he declined the insurance you're not responsible. If there's no insurance on the package then nobody gets anything. Some priority packages are garanteed for a certain amount.
  • jimq112jimq112 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭

    If you're using paypal you need to be able to prove delivery or it can get charged back, once the buyer has your card how are you going to prove he has it?


    Insurance costs $11 or so extra on a $1000 item, registered mail a little cheaper. It only takes 1 lost item to pay for a lot of insurances.

    Registered = accountability. The clerk takes it in and scans it and signs for it. The bag gets a numbered seal ring, it gets entered into a book. The truck driver, every clerk and every carrier that touches it signs for it. If it gets lost (they don't) then you have to prove value and you get paid.

    Insured over $50 value = nobody keeps track. If something happens the seller gets paid. The carrier SOMETIMES signs for it depending on local office. You have to sign to get it, unless the carrier screws up. It gets scanned only when delivered.

    Insured under $50 costs $1.30, nobody signs for it. I put it in your mailbox if you're not home and it fits. No proof of delivery.

    Signature confirmation = if it gets lost we're sorry, we'll try better next time. No accountability. The carrier does not sign (at most offices) to get it from the clerk. You sign to get the item. It gets scanned when delivered.

    Delivery Confirmation- almost everything comes with it now. You print the sticker and pay postage online, del conf is free with priority mail and .14 cents or so with parcel post. Scanned when delivered, nobody signs, hopefully delivered at the right house. If you have a crappy printer the scanner wont get it, doesn't get scanned. You have no proof it got delivered. Honestly a good delivery/scan percentage is about 97%. They just don't always get scanned when delivered. If yours doesn't get scanned you have no online "proof". Even when scanned it's possible the box aimed at 4434 your street went to 4434 theotherguys street. It happens.


    For a big money card, always use registered mail. If I have a registered I have to make sure it's locked out of sight in my truck when I'm not in my truck. I make a special stop with the truck instead of walking it up the street with me. I sign for it. They keep it in the safe with very limited access. I've only seen 1 registered get lost, ever, at my office. We had a new postmaster and he didn't know we had 2 safes. As soon as they found the sub mailman they found the registered.

    Keep in mind also that if your customer gets a lot of insured packages the mailman knows what's up. It's possible that he gets a sub that day or has a stealin mailman. It happens. I'm sure fedex and ups have the same problem. One of my friends just threw away a $22/hr job with 4 months left to retirement at $950/wk, because he got caught stealing a stupid $10 walmart card.




    Sorry for the long read, hope it helps somebody. I can answer mail questions.
    image
  • jimq112 : Perfect analysis!!!!
    image
    My focus, 1970 Topps Baseball Raw and Graded, pre 1989 PSA Hockey and 1933 INDIAN GUM ! Yikes!!
  • jimq112,
    Thanks for that post. Very well done. My regular everyday postman is great but Im pretty sure the one and only time I had a package not arrive, the sub postman nabbed it.
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    postal insurance is for the seller, not the buyer the way I understand it. If a $1000 card w/ sig conf does not arrive to the buyer, he can file a claim with paypal and get his money back from the seller (there has been no proof of delivery, so the buyer wins). Because the package was not insured, the seller is crap out of luck.

    This has to be the way the scenario plays out, I would think.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee


  • << <i>If you can't prove the buyer got it . He gets his money back and you are liable >>


    Exactly. Nothing else matters here. Luckily, the USPS "always" comes through on del. conf. or sign. conf.


  • << <i>If you're using paypal you need to be able to prove delivery or it can get charged back, once the buyer has your card how are you going to prove he has it?


    Insurance costs $11 or so extra on a $1000 item, registered mail a little cheaper. It only takes 1 lost item to pay for a lot of insurances.

    Registered = accountability. The clerk takes it in and scans it and signs for it. The bag gets a numbered seal ring, it gets entered into a book. The truck driver, every clerk and every carrier that touches it signs for it. If it gets lost (they don't) then you have to prove value and you get paid.

    Insured over $50 value = nobody keeps track. If something happens the seller gets paid. The carrier SOMETIMES signs for it depending on local office. You have to sign to get it, unless the carrier screws up. It gets scanned only when delivered.

    Insured under $50 costs $1.30, nobody signs for it. I put it in your mailbox if you're not home and it fits. No proof of delivery.

    Signature confirmation = if it gets lost we're sorry, we'll try better next time. No accountability. The carrier does not sign (at most offices) to get it from the clerk. You sign to get the item. It gets scanned when delivered.

    Delivery Confirmation- almost everything comes with it now. You print the sticker and pay postage online, del conf is free with priority mail and .14 cents or so with parcel post. Scanned when delivered, nobody signs, hopefully delivered at the right house. If you have a crappy printer the scanner wont get it, doesn't get scanned. You have no proof it got delivered. Honestly a good delivery/scan percentage is about 97%. They just don't always get scanned when delivered. If yours doesn't get scanned you have no online "proof". Even when scanned it's possible the box aimed at 4434 your street went to 4434 theotherguys street. It happens.


    For a big money card, always use registered mail. If I have a registered I have to make sure it's locked out of sight in my truck when I'm not in my truck. I make a special stop with the truck instead of walking it up the street with me. I sign for it. They keep it in the safe with very limited access. I've only seen 1 registered get lost, ever, at my office. We had a new postmaster and he didn't know we had 2 safes. As soon as they found the sub mailman they found the registered.

    Keep in mind also that if your customer gets a lot of insured packages the mailman knows what's up. It's possible that he gets a sub that day or has a stealin mailman. It happens. I'm sure fedex and ups have the same problem. One of my friends just threw away a $22/hr job with 4 months left to retirement at $950/wk, because he got caught stealing a stupid $10 walmart card.




    Sorry for the long read, hope it helps somebody. I can answer mail questions. >>


    Let me stress what a wonderful job the USPS does.
  • Is global priority tracking sufficient to prove delivery in paypal's eyes? I've used it for proof on chargebacks a few times without a problem, but recently provided the tracking number and was told it wasn't enough proof. I did the tracking number on the usps site and it said there was no record of that number, which led to me check some others and I found that it's pretty much hit and miss as far as the tracking working or not. If paypal doesn't accept this as proof (I even provided a scan of the receipt with the tracking number on it), that would pretty much stop me from using paypal for any international stuff. Anyone know if global priority tracking is enough to battle a paypal chargeback?
  • jimq112jimq112 Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭
    The problem with global priority is that not all carriers in all countries have scanners. If you send something to Japan you're a lot more likely to get a scan confirmation than if you send it to the Sudan. If they're able to scan and confirm to USPS then it usually ends up good.

    USPS can't confirm delivery just because they sent it to the country or even the post office in that country. It's not really hit or miss, it's more a matter of if that country's postal service bothers to pass the information.

    If the receiver's mail system doesn't provide confirmation then USPS can't confirm it. Paypal doesn't seem to understand that. I don't take paypal for anything over $50 going overseas. Probably costs me some dollars but saves me some dollars too.


    kind of off topic but at my office we sent some plane tickets to one of the clerk's family members in Scotland. They somehow arrived in India. When we asked the USPS rep how in the heck they ended up in India she told us that since India and Scotland were right next to each other that happens a lot.
    I hope she was thinking Ireland
    image
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