Counterfeit Dollars

stev32k

I've been collecting counterfeit trade dollars for my own education and to photograph. I just received a batch of counterfeits that in addition to trade dollars included Seated Liberty, Morgans, and Peace dollars. It was kind of an eye opener for me because these are the first I've seen in hand. They all have kind of a "funny" look to them - at first it's hard to say what is strange. Then you begin to look a little closer and several things stand out. The first is the overall color - they just don't look right. Circulated silver coins seem to have a certain characteristic color. The counterfeits don't have it. Second - on most, but not all, the obverse and reverse sides are rotated 180 degrees from where they should be. The real key, and something you can't tell from a photograph is the weight. All U.S. silver dollars should weigh over 26 grams. So far the heaviest counterfeit I've weighed (55 coins) is 24.7 grams. Here are three that are kind of interesting:

nolimitz

Are they sand casted?

stev32k

The peace and morgan are cast the seated is stamped. I've been told, but haven't confirmed it that the seated has a core of copper and an outer skin of silver. I have two of the 1859s so I am going to cut one in half and see what's inside.

greghansen

IMO, these are not terribly deceptive, and are probably the first/easiest types of counterfeits to get good at detecting. There overall 'graininess' even on the edges of the rims and in the fields, together with the loss of fine detail and the color already mentioned; pretty much scream 'COUNTERFEIT'.

TwoSides2aCoin

ttt ~ for the sake of education

darktone

These are very crude counterfiets that have been showing up overseas for a few years. I agree I don't think theywould fool many.

stev32k

Actually these would fool a lot of people. Especially the 1859 seated dollar. Dealers and expert collectors might be able to recognize them, but less expert collectors would not. They would sell fairly cheap as compared to the genuine coins and the people that bought them would be less well informed collectors. Most likely kids that saved their money or old guys that were bored and decided collecting coins might be interesting.

KeithinMD

As a novice, the Peace and Morgan dollars look a bit off, but the Seated would probably fool me--if just looking at a picture or image. I always wonder how many really good counterfeits get by even the experts. Many would be fooling themselves to believe it is not possible.

Along the same lines, is it possible to tamper with a holder of a slabbed coin to insert a counterfeit? Or even better create a counterfeit holder and coin that has correct serial numbers or whatever someone may try to use to verify authenticity. I guess I have been watching too much X-Files.

Thanks for sharing.

bhartman35

The graininess of all the coins is pretty awful. The Peace dollar looks like it was made of concrete.

I bet you could fool the uninitiated with a fake slab. Looking at the old ANACS slab that I have, I don't see any anti-counterfeit measures. The plastic looks like it has a stamped design on it, but that can probably be duplicated. And the printed stuff just looks like normal paper.

One thing I wonder is if someone could fake a cert. For example, people post their PCGS certified photos here all the time. A nefarious individual could conceivably use one of these and attribute the photo to his coin, assuming the quality was there, couldn't he?

Conder101

<< <i>One thing I wonder is if someone could fake a cert. >>


Back in the pre-salb days there was at least briefly reports of fake ANACS certificates. I can't confirm that though and it may be possible that the certificates were not fake but that real certificates were being used to sell coins other than those shown on the certificates. I know for a fact that at one time there was a thriving market in buying and selling the certificates without the coins.

CaptHenway

The Seated Dollar looks like the typical crap coming out of China right now, but the Peace Dollar looks to be die struck from cast dies. Note the heavy die crack on the right side of the rock. It certainly has a different feel to it.
Tom D.

jmj3esq

Why would someone cast a 1922 Peace dollar? What a waste of time. At least try a 1921. You would have to be a real sucker to get fooled by one of those.

ibzman350

Sorry the pics are so bad.




Herb

stev32k

These are different fakes from those that were and still are made in China. These coins were made to circulate in the Montaganrd regions of Northern Vietnam, Laos and even into Cambodia. There is speculation that the North Vietnamese Govt actually produced them during the Vietnam war. The reason people think that is because there are a large number of counterfeit French trade dollars as well (Plastre De Commerce, Indo Chine). The U.S. fakes didn't start to show up until the U.S. entered the war. The coins were not made to try to fool collectors they were used in every day trade.

Apparently the 1922 Peace dollar and the 1896 Morgan were two favorites - at least there seems to be a large supply of them around.

P.S. Here is one of the French fakes:

Merc

Does anyone have some pictures of die struck counterfeit Trade dollars? About 2 years ago, many fakes were released that had the correct weight and silver content.