Dipping experiment - help wanted

drjules

Dear all

I have to admit I am new to the whole coin dipping thing but I have a 1927 proof crown that looks like it needs a dip as it has previously been in a PVC holder. I also admit that I am a little nervous about just dipping this coin without trying the process out first. So I appeal to the darkside crowd - if anyone has anything I could practice on I would be more than grateful. I will either pay market value or return the coin to you post dip. The greener the better please.

Dr J

Steve27

DON'T dip it, use acetone (it's as safe as water for coins).

drjules

<< <i>DON'T dip it, use acetone (it's as safe as water for coins). >>



Ohh sorry when I said dip I meant acetone. I already a bottle of acetone ready I just wanted to test out the process in terms of how much time to bathe the coin and then what to do after the acetone. I planned to just let the acetone evaporate and leave it at that.

Dr J

Spinynorman

If you're just looking to remove green PVC residue, then acetone is the way to go. If the PVC has caused the mirrored surfaces to haze, then "dipping" may help after you've removed the PVC. I've had pretty good luck removing haze from proofs by long term soaking in mineral oil and then dipping. Rinse, repeat as needed if it is still making any difference.

Spinynorman

<< <i>

<< <i>DON'T dip it, use acetone (it's as safe as water for coins). >>



Ohh sorry when I said dip I meant acetone. I already a bottle of acetone ready I just wanted to test out the process in terms of how much time to bathe the coin and then what to do after the acetone. I planned to just let the acetone evaporate and leave it at that.

Dr J >>



Don't leave it in that long. The disolved PVC is suspended in the solution, so if you let it evaporate, it will just redeposit on the coin. If the PVC is real heavy, soak it more than once in the acetone, using fresh acetone each time.

Steve27

Soak the coin in the actetone for several minutes (I use a shot glass). If the PVC comes off completely then just let it dry; otherwise, repeat until it all comes off. If the PVC is old, the coin may be damaged and nothing will help. Got pics?

spoon

Here's one of the many threads where acetone cleansing has been discussed. Jester is among our most fervent anti-PVC crusaders and knows well how to combat it. Here's a quick clip of him describing his procedure (from the same linked thread):

<< <i> I'd let the coin soak in acetone a few hours just to make sure the acetone can penetrate everything. I wouldn't use any abrasive items on the coin, even a Q-tip. If you must rub the coin, do it lightly using your fingers while the coin is submerged in acetone in the first jar. Here's my approach: line up 3-5 small low jars with a bit of acetone in each one, enough to liberally cover the coin(s). After soaking the coin in the first bowl (and use a metal lid while soaking so fumes don't escape), take the coin with either your fingers or metal tongs (I use my fingers) and hold it by the edges and move it from the first jar to the second, and swish it around in the second jar for a few seconds, and repeat this process until you've rinsed it in all jars. By the time you've rinsed it in the 5th jar, there should be no residue left on the coin. As you remove the coin from the last jar, hold it vertically above the jar, and the acetone will drip off and then dry within a second. That's the end of the process. You're done; no need to "follow" up with any kind of water or other solution. You'll notice PVC residue in the first jar.

No open flames or smoking in the immediate vicinity; acetone is extremely flammable. >>

drjules

Thanks spoon

That sounds like a good method, I will start collecting jars a give it a try

Dr J

Aethelred

Use great care with that stuff, acetone can be bad news!

silvereaglecoins

The best way to remove PVC haze is with MS70 Coin Cleaner. It is made specifically for PVC removal and much less harsh than typical coin dip and safer than acetone. I have "conserved" dozens of brown box proof Ikes which are usually found covered with PVC contamination. The coins look perfect when done. The hard part is cracking the coin out of the plastic mint case.

Steve27

" The best way to remove PVC haze is with MS70 Coin Cleaner. It is made specifically for PVC removal and much less harsh than typical coin dip and safer than acetone. I have "conserved" dozens of brown box proof Ikes which are usually found covered with PVC contamination. The coins look perfect when done. The hard part is cracking the coin out of the plastic mint case."

Not true, MS70 is a heavy duty cleaner and is not in the same class as acetone. Acetone is much safer and will do a better job on PVC than MS70. Additionally, the brown-box Ike holders do not contain PVC.

Steve27

" Use great care with that stuff, acetone can be bad news! "

Ya, look at all the women who have been maimed using acetone-based cleaners to remove nail polish.

Burks

<< <i>Use great care with that stuff, acetone can be bad news! >>



Keyboard + Pure acetone = Liquid Keyboard

Good stuff though.

Spinynorman

<< <i>

<< <i>Use great care with that stuff, acetone can be bad news! >>



Keyboard + Pure acetone = Liquid Keyboard

Good stuff though. >>



Which reminds me... if you re-use old food jars that have a seal in the lid, well, they won't for long. Take a pair of needlenose pliers and pull them off before you start.

Spinynorman

drjules

<< <i>Which reminds me... if you re-use old food jars that have a seal in the lid, well, they won't for long. Take a pair of needlenose pliers and pull them off before you start. >>



Thanks for all the advice. I am saving jars ready for the acetone washing now. I will remove the seals before I start

Dr J

DeutscherGeist

I have a coin album. I put some silver coins in the pages and years later, saw some green on the silver coins.

Is this PVC damage? You mean to tell me that coin albums still use PVC in the plastic? This absurd.


What should I do with my silver coins that have this blue-green residue on them? Its been years and I paid $10 for all of them together. Its worth me taking a risk with dipping. Should I use several jars of acetone and then rinse with distilled water?

How should I handle the coin. I don't want to use my fingers since that will get oil on the coin and acetone harms my skin.

wybrit

I have a coin album. I put some silver coins in the pages and years later, saw some green on the silver coins.

What should I do with my silver coins that have this blue-green residue on them? Its been years and I paid $10 for all of them together. Its worth me taking a risk with dipping. Should I use several jars of acetone and then rinse with distilled water?

How should I handle the coin. I don't want to use my fingers since that will get oil on the coin and acetone harms my skin.

Don't dip your coins, you achieve nothing - the damage has already been done. Rinse with acetone to stop the rot. If you must rinse with something after that, I'd recommend ethanol (perhaps everclear), not water. Ethanol is a relatively safe chemical to use and is miscible with acetone, carrying away moisture in the process. Of course both acetone and ethanol should be used in well ventilated areas!!

DeutscherGeist

I did not mean to say "dip"-- I meant an acetone bathe. I never want to dip coins, but giving them an acetone bath in order to prevent further PVC damage is warranted. What kind of thongs do I purchase to handle the coins.

Are 2X2 s PVC or must I buy the "Eagle" brand just to be sure? After bathing these silver coins, I want to put them in 2X2s or even flips that are PVC free. Capsules are the best, but I am not compromising anything by going with flips and 2X2s am I?

1jester

DeutscherGeist, you've raised some valid questions. If you haven't read the links in this thread, I urge you to do so; there is a lot of information there.

It's completely unnecessary to follow up an acetone rinse with water or alcohol. Water has the potential to harm a coin, in fact, so I recommend not doing it.

When working with acetone, I hold the coins with my unprotected fingers, in order to have a better grip on the coins, plus I like to gently rub the coins with my fingers in order to wipe off all traces of PVC that has accumulated on the coins. So I don't use gloves. Because acetone dries out the oils in my hand, however, I treat my fingers with vitamin E oil afterwards, and so far I've suffered no ill effects from this practice. Unless someone can present me with irrefutable scientific evidence that touching acetone for brief periods of time will cause irreversible drastic harm, I will continue to do this. Using tongs carries great risk of scratching the coin, so I no longer use them. And are there gloves that can withstand acetone?? In any case, I like being able to feel the coin that I'm working on; while the coin is submerged in acetone, I can touch it and feel how much PVC is present on the coin, if at all.

Most stapled 2x2s that I'm familiar with are made of mylar, so they should be safe for coins. However, I avoid them for two reasons: the paper itself can cause spots on coins, especially copper, and there is a distinct risk of scratching the coin when removing the staples if you decide to ever liberate the coin. I never use self-sticking 2x2s because the glue might cause damage to the coin, and every self-sticking 2x2 I've encountered uses PVC as the plastic film--Hartberger is a case in point. You can purchase flips which are made from mylar, and E&T Kointainer sells Saflips which are safe. I use these. I'd never risk buying flips or other containers which do not expressly say they are PVC-free, in other words, made from a safe material such as mylar. Airtite capsules are also safe, as are Eagle holders. There are others on the market to be sure, but I am not trying to give you a comprehensive list; that would be impossible for me as I'm only familiar with a few brands.

DeutscherGeist

Jester,


Thank you for taking the time to help and guide me. I do read older posts on relevant topics by conducting a search before making new posts. I am also making notes of certain things mentioned like what products are best to buy and so on.

If someone were to invent a thong that did not scratch coins, that will be a hot seller. I have worked in Chemistry labs before and I know all about acetone and what it does to human skin. Long term exposure cannot be good, but if one has only a few coins to clean, then short term exposure is no big deal--the human body can withstand a lot of short term harm without effecting the long term.

The thing is that I don't want any oils on my coins. So if the acetone takes skin oil away while we dip the coin in an acetone bath, handling that coin should leave no traces of oil. I was just worried about finger contact on the coin, but I think that point is mute since there will be no oil to transfer from our finger to the coin for that short window of time we are bathing and handling our coins in acetone.

After giving the coins a series of acetone baths, they should be laid down to dry on a cotton cloth? Not paper? I believe acetone evaporates within seconds, so they can be placed in a pvc free flip or capsule after a few minutes. I gues they do not need to be rinsed in distilled water. I only brought this up because it is important not to have any acetone residue on the coin while they are in the flips or capsules, otherwise, the flips or capsules will melt onto the coin and then you have to start bathing all over again. Whatever the case, by no means should one use tap water. It must be distilled or deionized--no exceptions. Tap water or drinking water will harm a coin--no doubt. With distilled water, one has to make sure the coin dries thoroughly before being placed in a flip of capsule, otherwise, corrosion can occur with that little bit of corrosion present. I am thinking blowing drying should help and cannot harm coins as far as I can see.

1jester

Geist, you're most welcome for the assistance; I do what I can to try to disseminate what I know, for the better of the numismatic world. I'm very happy I've been of some use to you. I'm grateful for the other contributers as well, for I've learned a lot from others here.

Indeed, there is no appreciable amount of oil on the skin when you're in the process of dipping your fingers in the acetone. Even so, as I finish up the process of the multiple acetone rinses, I'm careful to hold the coin by the edges anyway, and as I raise it out of the last jar, I hold it vertically to let the acetone drip off, and it dries within about 2 seconds. Then I set it down on a paper towel as I do other coins, then I put them straight into fresh Saflips a few minutes or so later.

Good luck with your coins, and continue to enjoy the hobby!

ROBERTB

<< <i>The best way to remove PVC haze is with MS70 Coin Cleaner. It is made specifically for PVC removal and much less harsh than typical coin dip and safer than acetone. >>



I second MS70. It has always been superb for me, unlike acetone which I've found to do nothing. Note, MS70 is NOT considered a "dip," but instead it is an extremely strong detergent I believe.

Stork

<< <i>If someone were to invent a thong that did not scratch coins, that will be a hot seller. >>


Victoria's Secret may have some thongs like that...



Sorry couldn't resist, and somebody had to say it!

I'm hoping for a little work this weekend, with both MS70 and acetone for help. I consider this a washing, not a cleaning .

DeutscherGeist

I know rubber gloves should not be used when handling silver coins. How about 100% cotton gloves?

I am so conscientious that I dont want to get finger oil on the outer edge of a coin if I can help it.

drjules

<< <i>

Victoria's Secret may have some thongs like that...

>>



Hmm is my thread being hijacked

I have to confess I haven't got around to acetone "washing" the coin that started this thread, although I did buy the acetone


Dr J

DeutscherGeist

I did not hijack the thread, I revived it. What use is it to start a new thread on something already discussed. I am adding to the rich information.

One should never rush with acetone bathing. I am still collecting information so when I do it, I will do it in the most harmless way in terms of protecting the coin's condition.

Mind if I ask where you bought the acetone? I am going to try the Home Depot in California. As long as its 100% acetone, that is good--no finger nail polish remover though.

drjules

I didn't mean you were hijacking it, I was referring to Stork and her talk of lingerie.

I bought my acetone at a local hardware store, about $4 for a half gallon I seem to recall and it is fairly obvious that it is not nail polisher remover.

I am also in California and there don't seem to be any restrictions on buying it (with our wonderful toxic substances regulations)

Dr J