Will Mike Mussina make the Hall of Fame?

GoYankeesGo

Lifetime:
224-127 (.638)
3.64 ERA (great for the Steroid Era where players cheated)
162 Game Avg: 17-9

Black Ink: Pitching - 14 (149) (Average HOFer ~ 40)
Gray Ink: Pitching - 215 (30) (Average HOFer ~ 185)
HOF Standards: Pitching - 46.0 (46) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Pitching - 102.0 (89) (Likely HOFer > 100)

Over the last 15 years Mussina has been one of the most dominating pitchers. One knock about Mussina is that he has ever won 20 games YET. Still I think he will make the HOF easily.

Brian48

Yeah, he'll make it in the same year Don Mattingly will.

GoYankeesGo

Brian48, look at the sabrmetrics.

Brian48

Sabrmetrics is an excepted tool to gauge an active player's potential value. Great for figuring out how much you want to invest in the guy during a contract year, but for evaluating a player for the hall, it goes out the window. The Baseball writers who do the voting do not rely on this. This is not open to debate. It's a fact.

aro13

Are there any starting pitchers in the hall of fame that do not have at least one 20 win season?

kuhlmann

well do me a favor and compare pedro martinez stats to his... bc most people say pedro is first ballot..

so compare the 2 pitchers.. if mussina is close then i guess he is in?

Axtell

How many yankees are you going to dig up and post for 'should they be in the hall'?

Good lord spammy, you're as bad as ever...and going to get banned before the end of the season again (we hope).

jad22

Next thing you know he is going to try to nominate Munson for the flying hall of fame.

onlyanumber

Sutton and Bunning are in the Hall with only 1 20 win season each. The 20 win mark does rate with the writers to a degree. But that's not a vote of confidence for Mussina...

Mussina has almost never led the league in ANYTHING.

His league leading accomplishments:

Led the league in

wins in 1995
Won Loss % 1992
BB/9IP 1995
Innings 2000
Starts 1996
Shutouts 1995


Granted, he's a five time all star. But so is Doug Jones.

After looking at that...it's pretty sad. His only shot is if he holds on long enough to win 300 games

alnavman

What about Tommy John??? I don't think he's is in the Hall and he has great career stats....and he is even an ex Yankee so that gets extra points doesn't it/?????? maybe because he played for my favorite team here in Cleveland he loses points...sort of an offset issue!!!

1977 20-7
1978 17-10
1979 21-9
1980 22-9
career 288-231

dallasactuary

By my count, there are 6 pitchers in the HOF from the 60's and 9 from the 70's - you could quibble that Ryan should count as an 80's pitcher for example, but the counts are going to be pretty close. So far, there are three 80's pitchers in the HOF and they are all relievers, with Gossage, Smith, Blyleven and Morris having a prayer of making it some day.

Let's say that makes it 6 or 7 pitchers per decade making the HOF. Unless he has a miraculous comeback and finishes out this decade really strong, Mussina will be considered a 90's pitcher. Was he one of the 6 best pitchers of the 90's. Well, he clearly loses to Clemens, Pedro, Johnson and Maddux. And he's in the mix, where a reasonable argument could be made that he is better than or worse than, Smoltz, Schilling, Glavine and Kevin Brown. I'm calling Rivera a 00's pitcher and I don't think there are any relievers in the 90's that could credibly be considered better pitchers than Mussina.

So that's 4 clearly better and 4 at just about the same level. I don't think Brown ever makes it for reasons unrelated to his pitching, and I can't imagine Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine all making it - one of the last two is probably out, the other in. I think that makes Mussina much more likely to make the HOF than he is getting credit for in this thread.

I won't muddy the waters with whether I think he deserves it or not, just a warning not to bet the farm that he doesn't make it. He is, for example, a better pitcher than either Don Drysdale or Jim Bunning, and for a longer time. But those two were the 5th and 6th best pitchers of the decade and that, as much as anything, got them in.

bri2327

I was never a Mussina fan, before the yankees got him, or now that they do. I always thought he was overrated and benefitted from playing on good teams for the most part. The craze over him has always been his intelligence and ability to throw 5 or 6 pitches well.....who cares is what I say. Maybe he is a genius, but maybe that also gets him in trouble alot by thinking too much. And who said you had to be a rocket scientist to know how to pitch anyhow. I wouldnt even give the guy a second thought for the hall. David Wells has been a far better competitor over the years and anyone suggesting he is HOF worthy would get laughed at. I for one wouldnt take Mussina at any point in his career over Wells if it were one big game.

rbeaton

<< <i>I was never a Mussina fan, before the yankees got him, or now that they do. I always thought he was overrated and benefitted from playing on good teams for the most part. >>


You do realize that he played his first 10 years for the Orioles, right? Over that span, the Orioles were just over .500 so I wouldn't say that he was on good teams for the most part.

Robert

bri2327

<< <i>

<< <i>I was never a Mussina fan, before the yankees got him, or now that they do. I always thought he was overrated and benefitted from playing on good teams for the most part. >>


You do realize that he played his first 10 years for the Orioles, right? Over that span, the Orioles were just over .500 so I wouldn't say that he was on good teams for the most part.

Robert >>



Yes I realize he was on the Orioles for the 1st 10 years of his career. Do you realize that for many of those 10 years the Orioles were a very good team with a record well above .500 ? In fact, only 3 Orioles teams he played on had a record under .500, with the WORST being 74-88. The guy had 15 wins for a team that won 98 games in 1997. Hardly hall of fame qualities. He hasnt come close to winning 20 on a Yankees team that scores runs and wins 100 games every year. If he were hall of fame caliber then he would have done so at least once or twice. He had a nice career, was often near the top of the rotation, but that certainly doesnt make him hall of fame worthy, or anything close.

rbeaton

<< <i>In fact, only 3 Orioles teams he played on had a record under .500, >>



We must be looking at different information as I counted 5 under 0.500.

2000 - 74-88 (0.457) 4th place
1999 - 78-84 (0.481) 4th place
1998 - 79-83 (0.488) 4th place
1995 - 71-73 (0.493) 3rd place
1991 - 67-95 (0.414) 6th place - WORST

even the winning seasons (except 97 weren't that great)
1997 - 98-64 (0.605) 1st place
1996 - 88-74 (0.543) 2nd place
1994 - 63-49 (0.562) 2nd place
1993 - 85-77 (0.525) 3rd place
1992 - 89-73 (0.549) 3rd place

Robert

bri2327

Good, so I was off...I didnt count 91 because he played less than a half season. Either way the guy never won 20, winning team or losing team it doesnt matter. The problem was never with the orioles hitting, it was always their pitching. IF a guy is so great and has offense behind him then he should win 20 regardless of the teams record. I cant honestly believe there is a debate over this guy. If he is even considered then so have to be around 20 pitchers over the last 20 years.

Axtell

There's a debate over this guy because yankee fans as a general rule feel any player who's had modesto success in the big leagues is deserving of the hall.

Thurman Munson
Don Mattingly
Ron Guidry

and the list goes on and on and on. Anyone who's had a nice career in NY, the 'fans' in NY think they deserve induction. And they wonder why the rest of the country hates them and their team?

bri2327

<< <i>There's a debate over this guy because yankee fans as a general rule feel any player who's had modesto success in the big leagues is deserving of the hall.

Thurman Munson
Don Mattingly
Ron Guidry

and the list goes on and on and on. Anyone who's had a nice career in NY, the 'fans' in NY think they deserve induction. And they wonder why the rest of the country hates them and their team? >>



All 3 of those guys mentioned had more than modest careers. Maybe not HOF worthy, but certainly more than modest. The 3 you just named are without a doubt my 3 favorite baseball players of all time, and yet I am a realist and know that they may be yankee greats and legends, but come short for the hall..........but putting Mussina in the class with either of those 3 is an insult. They guy has done nothing, and more importantly meant nothing to the Yankee franchise. Two of those 3 are absolutely beloved legends in NY, as well as former captains of the Yankees. Mussina wil not get a single thought from me or many other Yankee fans the day he leaves the pinstripes.