Aikman or Bradshaw??

lawnmowerman

We have a lot of "who or who" threads going and I thought this might be fun as well.
You guys know my pick

Here is some stats

Aikman 4,715 passes attempted 2,898 passes completed 32,942 passing yards 165 passing touchdowns 6 Pro Bowls

Bradshaw 3,901 passes attempted 2,025 passes completed for 27,989 yards and 212 touchdowns. 3 Pro Bowls

Matt

Eddo33

Bradshaw:4 Superbowl rings in 6 years.

BigRedMachine

Well I don't know who was the better QB. Bradshaw was a little before my time so I didn't see him play. Both were surrounded by incredible talent though and have that to thank for their Hall of Fame success.

Which one would I rather have as my QB?? No idea.

Which one would I rather have a PSA 9 rookie of ??? duh.

Rambler

Oh I'd give it about a push, 4 rings vs 3 rings, can't go wrong either way. They both had HOF running backs, great offensive lines, dominating DE's, and a great receiver, so nice to have a great supporting cast around you, hence all the rings. The Steelers sure owned "dem Cowboys" back in Bradshaw's day though. Hollywood Henderson qoute " Bradshaw couldn't spell cat if you spotted him the C and the T " lol now thats funny, I don't care who you are

Rambler

Kinda like Ginger or Mary Anne

duner

Rambler...that's funny you posted that quote. Bradshaw was supposed to go to LSU, but didn't meet the acceptance req's, so he he ended up at La Tech at the last minute...Ironically my environmental law professor was supposed to be the qb that season. Needless to say, bradshaw ended any hopes he ever had of playing college ball...I think he's still bitter.

Comet

Aikman would be in two pieces if he received the hit Bradshaw took on 10-10-76 in Cleveland. Bradshaw.

dizzyfoxx

Absolutely, positively a no brainer... Bradshaw 100%

theczar

it is shame that super bowl rings are the criteria for a career. tom brady is the only qb i can think of that won multiple super bowl without a lot of HOFers with him. new england is a special situation. i am glad elway finally got those rings at the end of his career. he was a better qb than montana.

every year that steeler team has someone in the HOF finalists. there are a lot of players from that era who don't get a sniff. i would take archie manning over bradshaw and roger werhli over anyone in pittsburgh secondary for the mid to late 1970's.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Aikman would be in two pieces if he received the hit Bradshaw took on 10-10-76 in Cleveland.
Bradshaw. >>

So that explains what happened to Bradshaw's IQ

matt

rbdjr1

Give me a '71 Topps Bradshaw Rookie PSA 10, and then let Troy win this battle!


rbd

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Give me a '71 Topps Bradshaw Rookie PSA 10, and then let Troy win this battle!


rbd >>

I would take one too! I already have Troy's PSA 10 Score


matt

Overrated

Great question. I'm leaning towards Troy. He had to read defense better in a time of more complex defensive schemes.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Great question. I'm leaning towards Troy. He had to read defense better in a time of more complex defensive schemes. >>



Good answer! And the correct one I might add.

matt

achtey

Bradshaw by a long shot. Just a tougher player in my opinion



Josh

Darin

The Steelers won because of their defense. Bradshaw was just barely competent enough to lead their offense. His numbers suck, barely completed 50% of his passes and 212 TD's and 210 Ints. If Bradshaw had played for lets say, the Falcons back then his cards would be considered commons. He's only remembered because his teammates were so good that they carried him.

Rambler

<< <i>The Steelers won because of their defense. Bradshaw was just barely competent enough to lead their offense. His numbers suck, barely completed 50% of his passes and 212 TD's and 210 Ints. If Bradshaw had played for lets say, the Falcons back then his cards would be considered commons. He's only remembered because his teammates were so good that they carried him. >>




Are you implying if Aikman had played for the Cardinals that they would be Super Bowl champs ? I seem to remember the Cowboys going 1 - 15 under Aikman (1749 PY, 9 TD'S 18 INT'S ) in 1989 before Jimmy Johnson raped the Vikings on the Herschel Walker trade.

Herschel Walkers market value was established five games into the '89 season when Dallas traded him to Minnesota for five players, a first-round draft choice, and seven conditional picks. When Dallas was finished dealing, the Walker trade yielded 19 new players for the Cowboys. The blockbuster deal ultimately helped Dallas become Super Bowl champions.

Amazing how good Aikman got after Emmitt Smith , Michael Irvin and a handful of other studs showed up.

JasP24

I think you have to remember when these guys played...NO QB came out fo the 70's with awesome stats...Not only that, but Bradshaw played for a run first, pass second team. The Cowboys obviously ran the ball too, but Jimmy Johnson did not cater as much to the running game as Chuck Noll did...

Both are HOF caliber and both were known mostly for simply being winners, not their stats..

If I had to choose, it would be Bradshaw..As stated above, he played in the era of broken necks and no pass interference calls...He was the tougher guy...

lawnmowerman

<< <i> I seem to remember the Cowboys going 1 - 15 under Aikman (1749 PY, 9 TD'S 18 INT'S )
Amazing how good Aikman got after Emmitt Smith , Michael Irvin and a handful of other studs showed up. >>



Steve, You bring up a valid point. It does take more then ONE player for a team to be a success. How good would have Montana been without Rice, Craig , Clark.... But, the 1-15 record was Aikman's rookie year on a team that was in serious need of an overhaul. Unproven rookies and left over ,old players from years past. The Walker deal was, as you mentioned the first step to the 3 Super bowls in 4 years.

Matt

zef204

Bradshaw hands down. Aikman really struggled when his all-galaxy offensive line was declining from 97-2000. He was 29-35 over those 4 years.

Darin

rambler- That wasn't the point I was trying to make. I think both players are given too much credit for the Super Bowl wins. I'm saying Bradshaw was an average quarterback, but many people say he was great because he was at the leadership position when the Steelers won 4 super bowls.

Here's an example. Trent Green is a much better QB than Bradshaw ever was. Green is underappreciated because the Chiefs haven't won a Super bowl while he's been QB. In fact, the Chiefs haven't even had a defense since he's been QB. Basically, the Steelers won 4 in spite of Bradshaw being QB. Put in the Saints, Falcons, or Cardinals QB from that era into the Steelers starting job and the Steelers still win four SB's.

If Trent Green completed 3 of his next 572 passes, he would have the same completion percentage as Bradshaw. That's how bad Bradshaw was(or how much better Green is). The numbers don't lie. And Green has never had the recievers Bradshaw had, like Swann and Stallworth.

Rambler

First off, I hate the Steelers, I'm from Cincinnati, I'm a Bengals fan. lol but Darin, I have to disagree with you, so Bradshaws completion percentage sucked, big deal, thats cause he was flinging 40 yard bombs. If he was a five yard ding and dunk passer then he would have a high completion percentage, but that wasn't their game. In 1969 the Steelers finished 1 - 13. They drafted Bradshaw with the first pick in the draft. Why, because he was the best college quarterback in the country. In four Super Bowls, he passed for an impressive 932 yards and 9 touchdowns. In 19 postseason games, he completed 261 passes for 3,833 yards. His physical skills and on-the-field leadership played a major role in every one of Pittsburgh's championship seasons. In the 1974 AFC Championship Game against Oakland, his fourth-quarter touchdown pass to Lynn Swann proved to be the winning score in a 24-7 victory. In the Steelers’ Super Bowl IX victory over Minnesota that followed, his fourth-quarter touchdown pass put the game out of reach. In Super Bowl X, Bradshaw again threw the winning touchdown pass on a 64-yard bomb to Swann. He was named the Most Valuable Player in both Super Bowl XIII (35-31 over Dallas) and Super Bowl XIV (31-19 over the Los Angeles Rams). The guy was tough as nails. He played in an era where the NFL didn't protect Quarterbacks. It was open season. You got corkscrewed, pancaked, headslapped, piledrove into the ground ect. all this after the ball was already gone.

Now for Troy Aikman, he was a good quarterback, he controlled the game, he didn't turn the ball over, but it was Emmitt Smiths team. He carried the load. He was the NFL rushing leader in 1991, 1992, 1993, and 1995. He had 78 100 yd rushing games. He rushed for 17,162 yds as a Cowboy. The Steelers never had an NFL rushing leader. I would think if there was any team in history where you could plug in any quarterback from another team with the same results it would have to be the Cowboys of Emmitts time period. Troy Aikman probably went six years in a row where he never saw less then eight in the box trying to stop Emmitt. Now factor in that Aikman came into the League when the NFL protected their franchise quarterbacks. You couldn't touch em, plus all the rule changes about pass interference because the NFL wanted more scoring. Aikman had the good life to say the least.

Trent Green ?? Are you kidding me.

Rambler

Matt, Montana was pretty good with no Rice and Craig . Montana won the Super Bowl in '81 with Freddy Solomon and Dwight Clack as receivers and Ricky Patton and Earl Cooper as his running backs. Earl Cooper led the team in rushing with 543 yds for the season, talk about no running game. Now thats a Quarterback. Take that team and win a Super Bowl your second year in the League. It's a painful memory for me, they beat my Bengals and then beat my Bengals again in 89. Come to think of it, Joe Montana sucks

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Matt, Montana was pretty good with no Rice and Craig . Montana won the Super Bowl in '81 with Freddy Solomon and Dwight Clack as receivers and Ricky Patton and Earl Cooper as his running backs. Earl Cooper led the team in rushing with 543 yds for the season, talk about no running game. Now thats a Quarterback. Take that team and win a Super Bowl your second year in the League. It's a painful memory for me, they beat my Bengals and then beat my Bengals again in 89. Come to think of it, Joe Montana sucks >>

Darin

Rambler- Its obvious you judge QB's by how many Super Bowls their team has won, so how DO you rate a QB like Trent Green? He's got a lot tougher job than Bradshaw ever did, Green goes out there knowing his offense needs to score at least 30 points every game to have a chance to win. Bradshaw knew he could suck(and often did) and his team would probably still win, they weren't called the Steel Curtain because of the offense.

Yes, Green is much better than Bradshaw was, check the Chiefs team offensive numbers since he's been there, as well as his individual numbers.

rbdjr1

How about a QB clone with Michael Vick's legs and Marino's arm?

I would pay SMR for that rookie card!


rbd

edit: and throw-in some Elway brain cells too!

Rambler

Darin, Why do you think Trent Greens stats are so good ? Could it possibly be because of Priest Holmes rushing for a million yards and a gazillion TD's the last few years, and now Larry Johnson and that they have the best offensive line in the NFL. When you have a dominating running attack it is so so easy to pass when the other team must committ 8 and 9 people to the line of scrimmage to try and stop you from running. That was my point about Emmitt Smith making Troy Aikman's life easy. You obviously judge a QB by his completion percentage which should be off the charts when everybody has one on one coverage with absolutely no help. I'm sure Trent Green doesn't see many two deep zones or six defensive backs on the field very much, would be kind of futile now wouldn't it.

As far as Bradshaw sucking, he led the NFL in TD passes in 1978 and was tied for the League lead in '82 with Montana and Dan Fouts, two pretty prolific passers. He also rushed for 32 TD's in his career. Nobody is saying he was the greatest QB that ever laced em up but to say he sucked thats just being downright silly.

I would Imagine the only thing that Trent Green and Troy Aikman ever led the League in was going over and congratulating your RB on scoring yet another rushing TD. They've both led the League in that haven't they ? 1994 Emmitt scores 21 TD's to lead the League, 1995 breaks his own record and rushes for 25 TD's. Priest Holmes rushes for 21 TD's in 2002, then rushes for an amazing 27 TD's in 2003. Thats alot of high fiving your RB, you'd think their arm would be to worn out to pass at all.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>
I would Imagine the only thing that Trent Green and Troy Aikman ever led the League in was going over and congratulating your RB on scoring yet another rushing TD. >>



Steve, your killing me here. Aikman was more then a good game manager as this statement implies. Trent Dilfer was a game manager in the Ravens superbowl year but Aikman--no.

Aikman and Bradshaw were both very very good!

The reason I started this thread was because I thought the two qb's were similar in alot of ways ( numbers and wins ) and it would be a good discussion. Neither of them sucked as someone already mentioned. They were two very good qb's on two very good teams. Like I said before no -one player wins anything on his own. Its a team game and a team win.

Here is something I dug up:


1989-2000 Dallas Cowboys

Troy Kenneth Aikman. . .Cowboys’ first-round draft pick (1st player overall), 1989. . .Led team to three Super Bowl wins. . .Winningest starting quarterback of any decade with 90 of 94 career wins occurring in 1990s. . .Held or tied 47 Dallas passing records. . .Posted 13 regular season and four playoff 300-yard passing games. . .Named to six Pro Bowls, All-Pro 1993, All-NFC Second Team 1994, 1995. . .Born November 21, 1966, in West Covina, California.

Quarterback Troy Aikman finished his collegiate career as the third rated passer in NCAA history. An All-America at UCLA, Aikman joined the Dallas Cowboys as the first overall pick in the 1989 NFL Draft. He became the first Dallas rookie quarterback to start a season opener since Roger Staubach in 1969. Although he showed great promise and threw for a rookie-record 379 yards in a game against the Phoenix Cardinals, the team finished 1-15. As the young quarterback improved, however, so too did the Cowboys' record.

In 1990, Aikman completed 226 of 399 passes for 2,579 yards and 11 touchdowns - the team finished 7-9. The following year he completed an NFC-best 65.3 percent of his passes, and the Cowboys improved to 11-5 and advanced to the second round of the playoffs.

In 1992, in just his 52nd game, Aikman reached the 10,000-yard passing mark, and his 302 completions were second most in team history. That season also marked the end of Dallas' odyssey from worst to first. With their high-powered offense and stingy defense, the 13-3 Cowboys swept through the 1992 NFL playoffs, scoring a combined total of 116 points in three games including a 52-17 victory over the Buffalo Bills in Super Bowl XXVII. Aikman's 22 of 30 for 273 yards passing and four touchdowns earned him Super Bowl MVP honors.

Over the next three seasons, the Cowboys enjoyed three consecutive 12-4 records and victories in Super Bowls XXVIII and XXX. Aikman, wide receiver Michael Irvin, and running back Emmitt Smith delivered an offensive attack that opponents found nearly impossible to contain. When defenses focused on Irvin and/or Smith, Aikman would find tight end Jay Novacek or wide receiver Alvin Harper. In the 1994 NFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Green Bay Packers, Aikman completed 23 of 30 passes for 337 yards. Irvin, Novacek, and Harper, each had more than 100 yards receiving. Aikman's 94-yard touchdown pass to Harper was the longest play from scrimmage in NFL post-season history at the time.

With 90 wins in the 1990s, Aikman became the winningest starting quarterback of any decade in NFL history. Unfortunately, during his final two seasons, injuries began to take a toll on the Dallas quarterback and the team's winning ways. Finally, after the 2000 season, the Cowboys' six-time Pro Bowl selection announced his retirement from football. His career statistics include 32,942 yards and 165 touchdowns for a passer rating of 81.



Terry Bradshaw



In 1969, Terry Bradshaw was considered by most pro scouts to be the most outstanding college senior. As such, he was the first player selected in the 1970 National Football League Draft. It took the 6-3, 215-pound Louisiana Tech graduate a few seasons to adjust to the pro game but once he did, he became the dominant quarterback of the NFL and led the Pittsburgh Steelers to eight AFC Central championships, and an unprecedented four Super Bowl titles in a six-year period from 1974 to 1979.

Bradshaw, who was born September 2, 1948, in Shreveport, Louisiana, had a powerful throwing arm and called his own plays throughout his pro career. His physical skills and on-the-field leadership played a major role in every one of Pittsburgh's championship seasons. In the 1974 AFC Championship Game against Oakland, his fourth-quarter touchdown pass to Lynn Swann proved to be the winning score in a 24-7 victory. In the Steelers’ Super Bowl IX victory over Minnesota that followed, his fourth-quarter touchdown pass put the game out of reach. In Super Bowl X, Bradshaw again threw the winning touchdown pass on a 64-yard bomb to Swann. He was named the Most Valuable Player in both Super Bowl XIII (35-31 over Dallas) and Super Bowl XIV (31-19 over the Los Angeles Rams).

In four Super Bowls, he passed for an impressive 932 yards and 9 touchdowns. In 19 postseason games, he completed 261 passes for 3,833 yards. In his 14-season career, Bradshaw completed 2,025 of 3,901 passes for 27,989 yards and 212 touchdowns. He also rushed 444 times for 2,257 yards and 32 touchdowns. Bradshaw, who was named the NFL’s Most Valuable Player by the Associated Press and others in 1978, was also named All-Pro and All-AFC that year. He was selected to play in three Pro Bowl games.

Like I said both were very good HOF QB'S


Matt

StormBear

You can't compare QB's that played in the 1970's and earlier to QB's playing today based on stats. The rules are totally geared towards the passing game today. Darin - If you think Trent Green is better than Terry Bradshaw, you're way off. I watched them both play and Bradshaw was more mobile, stronger, and had better arm strength. To try to compare them based on stats is absurd.

Darin

rambler, stormbear- Well we can compare Trent Green to today's QB's then. Trent Green has thrown for more yards than any QB over the last three years.
Green-12,644
Manning- 12,571
That's Peyton Manning, not Eli. Rambler, how does he manage to throw for that many yards with Priest and Larry gaining a zillion yards per year. Seems like a statistical impossiblility.

I'll admit its easier to pass with a great running back, but Franco Harris was no slouch. And how come the Bills pass offense wasn't any good with O.J. or the Bears with Payton? Or the Lions with Barry Sanders?

Bradshaw was competent, but he's not as great as he gets credit for. His team was great, yes.

As for Aikman, I think he would have had a chance at the hall of fame without the Cowboys, Bradshaw would not have without the Steelers.

Rambler

lol Matt, Is Troy Aikman your cousin or something ? Just kidding, he was great, a Hall of Famer, never said he wasn't. The dude has three Super Bowl rings. He probably threw the best deep ball ever, but you know what set that up, play fakes to Emmitt. You have to admit Emmitt carried the load on that team period. He didn't break Walter Payton's record getting 15 carries a game and blocking for Troy while he threw it all over the field.

Football in the '90's is totally different then football in the 70's. If you look at the top 50 single season passing yard leaders there is only one pre 1980. Dan Fouts in '79 threw for 4082 yds in 1979. That was off the charts for that era. In 1974 Kenny Anderson of the Bengals lead the NFL in passing yards with 2667 yards. This last season there were 15 QB'S that threw for over 3000 yards. There have been numerous rule changes to promote gaudy passing stats because offense and high scoring games is what gets ratings. When Bradshaw played, most of his career it was a 14 game schedule, I think it went to a 16 game schedule in '78. Aikman had a 16 game schedule. You take two games a year over a 10 year career thats a season and a half worth of extra stats. Sure Aikman is going to throw for alot more yards. He had 814 more passing attempts then Bradshaw but is still 47 touchdown passes short of Bradshaw in an era when passing was alot harder then it is now.

So how do you compare apples and oranges, it's like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds. The only true judge is to judge a QB against his peers of the same era. In the 70's Bradshaw's stats weren't great but they didn't have to be, he didn't have to lead the league in passing, he had Franco Harris, Swann, and a great DE, just like Aikman had Emmitt leading the league in rushing, Michael Irvin, and a great DE, but Bradshaws stats were as good as his contemporaries. In the 90's I guess you could say the same about Aikmans stats, lets see, there's Marino, Elway, Montana, Bledsoe, Favre, Warren Moon. They all had gaudy passing stats, and I'm just talking from say 1990 to 1996, Aikmans prime. In 1996 Testeverde threw for 4177 yards. In 1995 Scott Mitchell threw for 4338 yards. My point is in the 90's 4000 yard passing seasons were pretty much the norm. While all these QB's were putting up these 4000 yard seasons Aikmans best year passing was 1992 when he threw for 3445 yards and 23 TD's . Thats a great year but it's still the 90's. In 1978 Bradshaw threw for 2918 yards and 28 TD's. In 1979 Bradshaw threw for 3724 yards and 26 TD's. In 1980 he threw 3339 yards and 24 TD's, gaudy passing stats for that era.

They're both great, seven rings between them. Which would I choose ? I'd choose Emmitt Smith rushing, the Steelers DE, Swann and Stallworth wide and Irvin in the slot lol then I guess you could plug either one of them in there and they'd do fine.

Rambler

How did Trent Green get in this conversation. Who cares about Trent Green. I think him and Dick Vermeil are butt buddies. Every time I see them they are either crying or hugging or kissing, whats up with that ? Is Brokeback Mountain in Kansas City ? I'm not sure.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>lol Matt, Is Troy Aikman your cousin or something ? >>



I wish. I would have had alot of great seats thru the years if he was.

I am just a big fan.


Matt