Heritage Auctions gets the BIGGEST prices !

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

But you also pay the biggest prices to buy coins in their auction


What do you think ?

Stewart

majorbigtime

They also get the biggest comissions, and it comes out of the consingors' pockets.

dizzyfoxx

I don't know, ANR Auctions seems to get some serious action also.

pontiacinf

what do I think?

I think they auction some real nice stuff, but I am partial to ANR, and really have not paid attention to Heritage as of late.

jabba

The 15% sucks but Ive been happy with every coin.

majorbigtime

<< <i>The 15% sucks but Ive been happy with every coin. >>



The 15% is standard on the buy side, and they want another 10% from the seller, who would net 75 cents on the dollar. That's nuts IMO.

roadrunner

For small consignments of routine stuff, 78% commissions is nuts, and it all comes out of the seller's pocket. Actually the commish is 90 out of 115 (78.2%). 15 years ago, a typical commission from any of the bigger dealers was 18% for consignments of around $20K.
So a jump to 22% is not that huge a change. For those who consign $50-75k or more, 13% is a typical commission (no sellers fee: 100/115). If you go to $150K or more you can swing 10% or better (102-105/115).

It all comes out of the seller's pocket. Buyer's fee is a cute way to make uninformed seller's think they aren't paying 22% commish.
Or in the heat of the battle, it is not uncommon for a bidder to forget the buyer's fee, and overpay for a lot. Has happened to me once or twice, and I don't think I even won the darn lots!

With the size of the Heritage auctions, many lots fall through the cracks. It is just impossible to have a 5000 lot auction get top price on every lot. Dealers don't go there to buy because they pay they like to pay the most money for coins.

roadrunner

ColonialCoinUnion

My view is that some of the prices realized at Heritage would never, ever be realized at any other auction house.

This is either do to Heritage's outstanding marketing, or the fact that they are accessing more bidders who don't what they are doing.

MrBreeze

First of all, so you know my perspective, I really like Heritage and have purchased a good number of coins from them. What I don't understand is, when there are 100,000+ or whatever the figure is, registered bidders, why does it seem like there are only 6-7 people bidding on the lots on which I have bid? At most, there will be 10 to 12 tracking, but never more than seven or eight bidding.

roadrunner

There are 20,000 registered users here on the forum. Yet only 200 or less per day actually contribute or show up. That 1% ratio is probably not too far off with Heritage either.

roadrunner

1985ChicagoBears

fyi - if your collection is large enough, you can generally negotiate away the seller's commission of 5-10%. That still leaves the 15% which they are unwilling to budge on. Some of the other auction houses may give you a very small piece of this action but you may not get top dollar for the coins like you would on Heritage. Still Heritage's catalogs and large audience/membership are pluses.

Fletcher

Hell ... they have sent me $200 worth of full color catalogs in the last year.

BAJJERFAN

Are the hammer prices BEFORE the juice then satisfactory to most folks here? Are those prices comparable to what the same coin might fetch on eBay or even the BS&T boards. Does factoring the juice into your bid really cause you to bid less and therefore to "not win" any or to win fewer auctions?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>But you also pay the biggest prices to buy coins in their auction >>



The two kinda go hand in hand I would say. They haint a gonna get the HIGHEST prices UNLESS smoeone is willin to pay em.

mozin

It appears to me that Heritage auctions more US coins than all the other COIN auction houses combined. Besides, some of the coin auction houses seem to cater to the wealthy collector/investor, they don't have that many collector coins. About 95% of the coin lots I track are Heritage lots.

The major coin auction houses all seem to charge similar fees. Heritage has by far the largest bidder list.

majorbigtime

<< <i>

The major coin auction houses all seem to charge similar fees. >>




Not so--most other auctioneers will discount for decent consignments, often to over 100% of the hammer price.

boston

Commissions are bad enough, but when you have to pay the sales tax (NY 8.25%).

Just have to buy on the internet if you are a collecter, and stay away from NY dealers that collect sales tax.

I don't care if the auction house collects from both ends if they serve both the buyer and seller.

What really busts my nads is the state getting money for me buying money that has made a profit for the goverment to manufacture and
sell to collecters while collecting profits and taxes on the money spent and the money made on every transaction resulting from the
production of each coin.

This is absolute bull. Unless the collector pays special/extra/antique, whatever premiums to insure the coins, the actual value is limited to face value. There is no tax deduction for loss of coins, except when documented as bullion assests or special premiums to cover such items. Are these premiums itemized deductions on a yearly basis for the average collector? The state makes money from every tax paying collector.

If I'm stupid enough to give you $10 for a $1 coin, why should I pay the state another 8.25%. And if you live in NY, they get another 25% of the
$9.00 profit you just made.

Let's add this up: $10 times .0825 (NY tax rate) is 82.5 cents for the state. Dealer makes $9, pays ~ 22 cents in tax before tax deductions. State has $1.04 profit because I bought a $1 DOLLAR US CURRENCY COIN.

Stop complaining about the commisions...

IrishMike

All I know which isn't much about auction houses, is that in the Long Beach auction I put a max bid in, the coin sold for $4600 just above my max and now it is on a dealer's site for $6100 with a picture that looks nothing like the Heritage photo. Of course I had someone look at the coin and knew it looked nicer, but good grief what is going on in the market. I bid way too high for the coin to begin with.

2ndCharter

Well, Boston, you've just got to do what I did - retire from a high-tax state (New York) to a low-tax state (South Carolina). We've only got a 5% sales tax and with no auctions here, no problem! More money available to spend on the hobby! (And the weather's better, too........)

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>what do I think? >>



My standard response to that at work is that I'm not paid to think and oftimes that certainly seems to be the case.

roadrunner

Buyers or sellers fee...doesn't matter what you call it. The seller foots the entire bill as buyers do back off their bids 15% so that they do not overpay by that amount. If a so-so coin is worth $100, you sure as heck aren't gonna bid $100 (and pay $115 with buyer's fee) for it. You're going to bid 100/1.15 or $87. Now if the coin is nice or underrated, auction fever is present, you may have to bid $90-100 ($103-$115) or MORE to win it. Depends on the coin.

Trying to beat the crowd at a Stack's "raw bar" auction takes great skill, timing, and some luck. For every couple of coins you may get at your price and get the grade you want, there will be some losers that you don't get the grade. You may or may not make money overall, esp. if one is a wholesaler. I know many top notch wholesalers with great grading skills that just won't venture into that environment....and with good reason. If 100 top buyers look at the same coin, 50 may see it as MS64 (probably the true conservative grade), 25 will see it as 63 or lower (these guys are brutal and usually won't win much at auction), 20 people will see it as PQ or a shot coin (these guys are usually the right ones), and then 5 will see the coin as the next grade 65. Those 5 people will beat each other up for the honor to get that into a 65 holder. They will pay 65 money or very close to it. Those 5 people are going against the view of 95% of the buyers present. For every coin that works for those 5 people that they may have overestimated the coin a tad, I'd bet that 2 others don't work and 2 break even. If you are always in that group of 5 people you lose. If you can buy selectively in that next group of 20 buyers, you usually can win.

Most dealers in the world buy from the public or from other dealers at their comfortable grade. At auction you have to buy at a slightly uncomfortable grade (at least for nicer material) to win it. Your upside is usually far less than the downside risk. And if you bid conservatively, you won't win enough to make your expenses.

At auction, the raw coin usually sells to the value decided on by the 2
or 3 people who envisioned the coin in the highest possible holder on the best day at the TPG. Good luck Mr. Phelps.........

roadrunner

BAJJERFAN

What really busts my nads is the state getting money for me buying money that has made a profit for the goverment to manufacture and
sell to collecters while collecting profits and taxes on the money spent and the money made on every transaction resulting from the
production of each coin.

This is absolute bull. Unless the collector pays special/extra/antique, whatever premiums to insure the coins, the actual value is limited to face value.

****************

The above is true for nearly everything you buy where you are required to pay sales tax; not just coins.

ebaytrader

<< <i>What really busts my nads is the state getting money for me buying money that has made a profit for the goverment to manufacture and
sell to collecters while collecting profits and taxes on the money spent and the money made on every transaction resulting from the
production of each coin.

This is absolute bull. Unless the collector pays special/extra/antique, whatever premiums to insure the coins, the actual value is limited to face value.

****************

The above is true for nearly everything you buy where you are required to pay sales tax; not just coins. >>





Taxing of money seems to fly in the face of the Constitution. Some states like Florida exempt US coins and currency from sales tax but others tax it. There is a belief system behind the taxation. I hope you support the party and those that does NOT believe in it.

BAJJERFAN

I think maybe Stewie meant to ask if one is overpayin by buyin a lot of the stuff off of Heritage and I would think in many cases probably so. Most of it probly sells for about what its worth, some more and some less. It would be interesting to see what my Morgan collection would actually bring in an auction but there just aren't that many money coins in it. Not worth the risk/effort for me IMO.

IrishMike

It may sell for "what it's worth" (whatever that is) but by the time dealers add their markup on top of Heritage's you best be content with holding it a long time and hoping the coin market is strong at the time you need/want to sell.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Taxing of money seems to fly in the face of the Constitution. Some states like Florida exempt US coins and currency from sales tax but others tax it. There is a belief system behind the taxation. I hope you support the party and those that does NOT believe in it. >>



When coins are sold in specialty shops like motorcycles or a like can of shaving cream at Walmart they become nothing more than a common commodity just like those items. Don't get me wrong; I DO NOT support taxation of coins. Here in Iowa they are taxed but the tax receipts are only like $100 or $200K so that tells you just how much business is being lost to out of state sources. I don't think I would EVER buy a $5K coin from a local dealer and pay $350 in sales tax. Many at local shows say that tax is included in the price. If I went to my bank and bought a roll of quarters for $10 and THEY wanted to charge me sales tax I would be pissed.