Any updates on SS Republic type I $20 gold populations?

northcoin

Odyssey published population figures dated March 27, 2005 for ten and twenty dollar gold coins it had recovered from the SS Republic shipwreck. Is it likely there have been additional coins to add since then? I am particularly interested in the 1861 $20 with a then reported 448 having been holdered with 337 of them being assigned grades from AU45 to MS64. Most were between AU58 and MS62 with the largest number (102) graded MS61. I am looking at an NTC holdered MS65 that obviously was either not graded by NGC or assigned a lower grade. My guess is that it was probably a MS61 just becasue of the numbers but it does look very nice with no scratches. Would welcome anyone's views on value of such a coin. NTC does not identify the coin as a shipwreck coin but it looks a lot like the ones I have seen from them. I assume there may have been some 1861 twenties from the Brother Jonathan wreck as well, but it seems most of those were from the San Francisco mint.

northcoin

Another question - how accurate are the price guides when it comes to Type I $20 Liberties in MS60 and above? Do they accurately take into account the increased supply that has resulted from the recent shipwreck recoveries?

DaveG

The coin "looks a lot like the ones I have seen from them [shipwrecks]"

Does that mean the coin looks like it has been cleaned?

I would guess that any Type I double eagle in an NTC holder is in that holder because it wouldn't be slabbed by anyone else (except perhaps NCS or an ANACS net-graded holder).

My advice: run, don't walk, away from the coin.

I would also have to presume that the price guides do take into account the increased supply of shipwreck Type I double eagles.

northcoin

Thanks for the opinion. Anyone else?

northcoin

Actually all of the shipwreck coins have been "conserved" which is a little different than "cleaned" since it is more dipping to remove residues than a process that would add scratches, even hairline ones.

DaveG

Well, as they say, one man's "conserved" is another man's "cleaned."

Also, most experienced collectors consider both abrasion and exposure to chemicals to be "cleaning", even if only one of these methods leaves scratches.

northcoin

That would be an interesting poll to post, but I'm not sure if anyone other than the moderators can instigate a poll here. I assume the conservators would contend that it is the residues, crud, and sea grime that they are exposing to the chemicals rather than purposely exposing the coin's surface to chemicals in order to alter the surface of the coin as one would do in artifical toning. Arguably a lot would depend on what is contained in the "secret sauce." It would be interesting to learn just what agents are used to conserve versus to clean a gold coin. If I recall correctly, for example acetone baths are not considered cleaning.

northcoin

ttt

northcoin

ttt

RYK

I have the answers! I just spoke to John Albanese, advisor to Odyssey, and he informed me of the following:

1) The salvage is complete.
2) The NGC "partial population report" from about one year ago is indeed the final gold coin tally.
3) They only found about 20-25% of the gold that was expected to be on board the ship. There is speculation that passengers carried gold off the ship as it was going down.

shirohniichan

<< <i>I have the answers! I just spoke to John Albanese, advisor to Odyssey, and he informed me of the following:

1) The salvage is complete.
2) The NGC "partial population report" from about one year ago is indeed the final gold coin tally.
3) They only found about 20-25% of the gold that was expected to be on board the ship. There is speculation that passengers carried gold off the ship as it was going down. >>



If some of the gold was carried off the ship by passengers as the ship went down, I wonder how much was abandoned as they had to swim or be picked up by lifeboats and other small watercraft. I think it would be nearly impossible to find small caches of discarded gold that was dropped hundreds of yards from the wreck.

coynclecter

I would believe that coin history shows hoard and shipwreck coins tend to be cheaper about 2-3 years after the initial sale.

Longacre

Personally I am not a fan of the shipwreck coins. I don't know the difference between "conserved" and "cleaned", but I would rather have a coin that has not undergone treatment, no matter how limited.

The theory about people carrying coins off of the sinking ship is interesting.

northcoin

Thanks