How do you detect if a coin is cleaned / ungradable? SCANS ADDED

packCollector

I recently joined the collectors club to send in some coins that have been owned for 20 years or so. of the 8 coins that were sent in 2 significant coins came back "cleaned" and one not that important one came back "artificial color" ? These coins were bought way back before professional grading when getting the coin was important so I am trying to understand what to look for and why it would be ungradable as I read alot of posts where cleaning appears to be ok to a point. this is also referenced in the book received from the pcgs membership. thanks for the help

Cladiator

There are a myriad of ways to clean a coin. Some very noticeable and some very hard to notice. It would help a great deal if you could show photos of the coins that came back bagged for cleaning.

fullerfun4

The acceptability of "cleaning" coins has changed over the past few years. But it is generally accepted now that most silver coins have been cleaned in the past. The issue is the manner in which they have been cleaned and the results of the cleaning. If a coin has been harshly cleaned, thus leaving visible signs such as hairlines, etc, it is generally not acceptable and the coin will be body bagged. If a coin has been chemically cleaned or dipped so that tarnish or other surface blemishes are removed without significantly harming the coin's surface, then it is sometimes acceptable. But if a coin has been cleaned or dipped too often and it has harmed the coin's luster and surface features, it may be bb. Still, it is all a matter of experience to tell the difference.
Regards
Gary

Cladiator

<< <i>But it is generally accepted now that most silver coins have been cleaned in the past. >>

I wouldn't quite go that far. I think a more accurate statement would be that for certain coin series it is generally accepted that most of the coins have been cleaned at some point in their past.

Steve27

"But it is generally accepted now that most silver coins have been cleaned in the past. "

Only true for coins dated prior to 1840, when it was an acceptable practice.


"...I am trying to understand what to look for..."

Look for scratches in the same direction across the face of the coin, or a very unnatural color.

coppercoins

1. If the high points look brassy, shiny - a sign of polishing
2. If there are thin, incuse lines running parallel on any part of the coin - hairlining due to wiping the coin with a rag.
3. If there are signs that chemicals have pooled around any of the letters - chemical cleaning that probably wasn't done properly.
4. If the coin's color is simply unnatural - another sign of chemical cleaning that wasn't done right.
5. If any of the hits on the coin look like they have soft edges that don't match the amount of wear on the coin - another sign of wiping.
6. If any of the devices have sharper edges on one side than the other - a sign of whizzing.
7. If there are patches where the "shine" doesn't match the rest of the coin - a sign of thumbing or whizzing.
8. If the cartwheel of luster is "perfect" and spins totally evenly around the coin. Definite sign of whizzing.

There are enough of these points to mae a list into the triple digits, but these are some of the more obvious ones. My first answer, and probably the most important and correct would be to gain experience with looking at a number of coins before slabbing any coins so you'll know the difference between a cleaned coin and one that hasn't been cleaned. Once you have the experience of seeing the difference a few thousand times you should be comfortable with the looks of a cleaned coin.

Nobody can teach you exactly what to look for on every coin for cleaning - it's just not possible. But knowing the points to look for by having viewed them a number of times will be far better education than anyone can provide in a book, on a message board, or with a simple talk.

packCollector

the 1st 2 came back cleaned , the last came back questionable color. all of these have been in the old staple holders since purchased over 20 years ago and were not altered by me for sure. any opinions as to what the graders are seeing

tahnks

deansmint

All coins look to be lightly polished, ive seen much worse bet difinitely obvious from the photos. Curious, but is the 14-D sticky, cause it looks to be that it might have slight 'pvc' or some other contamination, looks greasy like some other problem coins that I have seen.

packCollector

the back side was a little sticky, if I really squeezed it, when I just pulled it out. maybe that is the deal. any other opinions?

Steve27

The 14-D and the 20-S both look fine to me (I would give them a soak in acetone and then resubmit them). If the color of the 31-S is accurate, then it does seem a little strange. But it's very hard to tell from scans. How many coins did you originally submit?

packCollector

I submitted 8 coins from the collectors club membership. I have never submitted coins , I am a card guy. I may do some again as these were a test . i just need to try to figure out what to look for. thanks

carl

I'm no expert but I know enough to watch for a coin that has lots of wear and is a shinny as a new coin. I've seen so many of those at coin shows lately and wonder why they are not labeled as cleaned.

TwoSides2aCoin

I usually compare my coins to a "KNOWN NATURAL".... so for instance, the 31S has that off color (pumpkin, it ain't a color ). If it sits next to a few others and jumps out as "unnaturally" colored, even if it is a natural happenstance, the likelihood of a bodybag is HUGE.
The 14D looks as natural as they get. I do not dip, soak or clean any coins, but that one does look like a candidate for a week in olive oil or whatever non caustic solution you could use to remove the gunk and dirt.

The Silver piece looks cleaned because of all the little nicks in the fields, the wear on the coin and the absence of luster.
When there is shininess on silver with lots of small scratches, hits, rub and wear and still a shiny but strangely dull surface, it's usually a lock on cleaning. A no brainer. (look at the skirt lines for a hint, or the eagles breast feathers. The head of liberty...... these are some indicators to where your eyes should inspect more closely. Then look in between the legends and into the cracks and crevices of the devices. Trained eyes see problem coins before they even go into the flip. I think those graders actually smell them before they open the box .... they got a nose for "stuff".

Don't give up ! Take heart because there are very few of us who have not rec'd that famous "BODYBAG"