Rhodium at 3470 an ounce
BigE
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What is this metal used for, why is it so expensive?---------BigE
I'm glad I am a Tree
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Edit: Or any raw natural resource, period?
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<< <i>What is this metal used for? >>
The primary use of this element is as an alloying agent for hardening platinum and palladium. These alloys are used in furnace windings, bushings for glass fiber production, thermocouple elements, electrodes for aircraft spark plugs, and laboratory crucibles. Other uses include:
It is used as an electrical contact material due to its low electrical resistance, low and stable contact resistance, and its high corrosion resistance.
Plated rhodium, made by electroplating or evaporation, is extremely hard and is used for optical instruments.
This metal finds use in jewelry and for decorations. Often it is used to give white gold extra shine.
It is also a highly useful catalyst in a number of industrial processes (notably it is used in the catalytic system of automobile catalytic converters and for catalytic carbonylation of methanol to produce acetic acid by the Monsanto process). It is used to catalyse addition of hydrosilanes to a double bond, a process important in manufacture of certain silicone rubbers.
The complex of a rhodium ion with BINAP gives a widely used chiral catalyst for chiral synthesis, as in the synthesis of menthol.
...courtesy of widepedia
According to Tony Clayton, the only reason it's not used in coins is because it's too expensive. (Link)
Rhodium is one of several minerals assocaited with Cu-Ni/PGE deposits. Many copper-nickel deposits also contain some platinum group elements (PGE's) in small quanities. Sudbury in Canada is a good example. Mining companies mine the copper-nickel, and also separate the platinum group elements out from the ore. Platinum, palladium, rhodium, gold are a few of the other minerals found in smaller quantites with these copper-nickel deposits. So a mine, like in Sudbury Canada, will mine Cu-Ni, and get anywhere from 0.5% - 5.0% combined copper and nickel, and also be able to add a little platinum, palladium, rhodium and gold to their profit line.
Some mines don't specifically target Rhodium, as it usually is found in ppb. But since they are already mining the ore for Cu-Ni, they will take what ever PGE's come with it. Another example is the Ladysmith mine in WI. It was a Cu-Ni/PGE mine, but the gold that came with the ore was so high in ppm's that it pretty much paid for the entire cost of the mine itself, and all the Cu-Ni they mined was pure profit.
I have been following some of these mining companies stock, and most of them are penny stocks, or just a few dollars. This is because most of these mining companies are considered "junior companies" in the mining industry. They try and fine new deposits, and if one gets developed, the price takes off. But that is far and few between. Since I live in northern MN, I have been watching closely the mining companies that are current trying to open some Cu-Ni/PGE mines here. It will be the first Cu-Ni/PGE mine in MN, and should be very interesting to finally get a new mine permitted to open in over 40 years. Oh yeah, I should say that I am finishing up my master's on one of these potential mines in MN.
Badger
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
<< <i>From flamino's link, it looks like it is sold in wire form (interesting tidbit) >>
DUDE! Four grand for one meter of Rhodium wire? I don't think that will be replacing copper anytime soon...
<< <i>Rh is also declared a strategic metal by the US Government, so individual ownership is not allowed. >>
That is absolutely not true. There are NO restrictions about the ownership of rhodium metal. To say that there are is like saying that it's illegal to own platinum metal. If you want, there are many places I can provide links for that will sell you rhodium metal. In my hands right now is a nice ~10 gram piece of 99.9% pure Rhodium metal. It is INCREDIBLY reflective and bright. When I bought it a few years ago it only cost me $200. Now that 10 gram piece is worth over $1,100 bucks. I just wish I had bought more of it at the time.
Pt and Rh have a lot in common in terms of catalysis, but Rh is typically a much better catalyst albeit a much more expensive one. A major use of Rh is in the production of nitric acid which is a key chemical in the manufacturing of numerous different compounds. (Many of which are of millitary use such as glycerol-trinitrate, trinitrotoluene, trinitrophenol, etc. etc).
The price of Rhodium was pretty low during the 1990's and early 2000's thanks to a large supply coming from Russia. Over the past couple of years, however, the price has skyrocketed as the supply from Russia has seemed to "dry up". (As to whether that's an actual short supply or Russia just not releasing as much Rhodium can be debated).
<< <i>smaples >>
Aw, c'mon, that's taking "smoe-talk" a bit far, don'cha think?
<< <i>The sites don't sell in ingot form, but they do sell buttons of various sizes. (I really don't know of any places that sell actual "ingots", so to speak). Check out www.elementsales.com. A buddy of mine runs the place and he sells nice buttons of Rhodium metal made by melting the powder with an arc welder. Another place is The RGB Company out of the UK. They too sell custom sized pieces of Rhodium metal. If you e-mail them you can get a current price quote. >>
I had found that first site a whille back, and it's quite nice (though I haven't ordered anything from it). The 2nd site seems to be down. Can't access the page.
Typically, a catalytic converter contains one or more ceramic (sometimes metal) honeycomb substrates. These substrates are coated with a high-surface area ceramic coating that contains the precious metals. The composition and application of these coatings is normally considered a trade secret for the catalyst coating companies. If you look under one of today's vehicles, you may see as many as 4 catalytic converters. And all must have appropriate diagnostic sensors so that an idiot light is illuminated if a failure occurs. Sound expensive? It is - and clean air is worth it.
If one of the metals becomes constrained and prices skyrocket, the systems are redesigned to minimize the use of the expensive metal and reduce overall cost. This is a game that has been played for decades. But it happens over time, not overnight.
In my 20 years in catalysts, I have watched all three metals rise, fall, and rise again. I remember Rhodium at well over $5000/troy ounce - if you could get it. (The damn bean counters wanted me to measure my inventories to the atom!) That drove systems toward more Pt and Pd catalysts. Then Pd became expensive and rhodium became a better choice.
As pointed out already, most of the supply comes from unstable countries. If the supply is constrained in any way, the price can skyrocket. It can drop just as fast. Its alot like gasoline prices, but more complicated.
Remember that the "Big Boys" in the auto industry do not buy on the spot market - the spot market is what you see quoted all the time. The "Big Boys" have guaranteed contracts with the mines and get preferential treatment, discounts, and a guaranteed supply. In addiiton to guaranteed contracts they also actively hedge their needs in the open commodity market. It is not a place for the faint of heart.
And don't believe everything you read in the paper (or on these threads for that matter). There is alot of mis-information out there. Most is on purpose. For example, if you are one of the "big boys" and your Platinum contract is up for renewal, it is a good time to announce that you have developed a system that uses less Platinum. This drives the market down just in time for you to sign up for a new contract at a good price!
Sorry for rambling. But don't buy Rhodium - you will be sorry.
Oh - and I almost forgot - I also own some rhodium. Let the government come over and see if they can find it. I'll even give them a clue: it isn't in bar form - its in sponge form (looks like grey dust).
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
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no?
oh.
<< <i>
<< <i>The sites don't sell in ingot form, but they do sell buttons of various sizes. (I really don't know of any places that sell actual "ingots", so to speak). Check out www.elementsales.com. A buddy of mine runs the place and he sells nice buttons of Rhodium metal made by melting the powder with an arc welder. Another place is The RGB Company out of the UK. They too sell custom sized pieces of Rhodium metal. If you e-mail them you can get a current price quote. >>
I had found that first site a whille back, and it's quite nice (though I haven't ordered anything from it). The 2nd site seems to be down. Can't access the page. >>
Hmmm..... Not sure why the second site didn't work. (Works for me). For the second site, Max Whitby also sells on E-Bay under the username "rgbco". I see that he has Rhodium pellets for sale at about $225 per gram which seems to be about twice the going price. However, the purity is insanely high.
For the first site, Dave Hamric is a great person to buy from. All the samples he sells are of an insanely high quality and a large portion of my element collection was supplied by Dave.
Just no investment demand for Rhodium. Almost none for Palladium. And I always had to ship even Platinum to a wholesaler who sold to the industry rather than any "investors." He told me that his Pt trade was almost nil and the users were really the only outlet.
I would stick with gold and silver for hoarding and buy the Plat group as stocks.
Or futures for quick turn trades if you are so inclined.
<< <i>So you guys are saying that if I went to a coin shop with one meter of this wire or an ounce of these little Rhodium pellets that look like rabbit turds the dealer would not give me 3500 for them
They'd probably have no clue what it was you were trying to sell them. To most people, Rhodium is nothing special. It's not particularly dense like platinum is. It's not colored like gold is. It looks a lot like silver and palladium do. Only those who use it and know its chemistry will really understand what it is and pay the going price for it. A coin dealer would look at it and probably offer you a few bucks.
you gush MI all over you.
<< <i>So you guys are saying that if I went to a coin shop with one meter of this wire or an ounce of these little Rhodium pellets that look like rabbit turds the dealer would not give me 3500 for them
Ehhh, flip it around, BigE, would *you* buy the same if you were a dealer and someone came off the street with rhodium pellets? They might as well try to sell me magic fairy dust.
don't have any, don't want any.
there are a lot of very valuable substances (per gram or microgram or whatever) that most folks have no use or market for..
a marked bar or sample of Rhodium, in the right market (i.e. laboratory substances dealer to consumer) may well have that value..
but it sure ain't "liquid"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
In terms of coinage, I could never see Rhodium being used for coins. It is physically too much like palladium to ever be able to make a mark on the market. Heck, even platinum and palladium are a lot alike, but platinum is so much denser and much more inert that the differences are noticeable. Between rhodium and palladium, the differences are so minor that one would be crazy to pay the $6,000 for an ounce of Rh when about $350 will get you an ounce of the VERY similar Pd.