Grades Pooped... and a short rant!

MuckyMutt

Once again, bitter disappointment. I think a lot of us know the difference between a 9 and a 10 - about 8-10X price and the mood of the grader. By definition, a 9 "exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection, or slightly off-white borders". Plus the centering. I went over these cards 3 times with a 10X loupe on different days. These were the result of culling out any imperfection whatsoever. The centering was 50-50 on them. Of course 2 of the 3 rookie cards were not holdered. The "recolored" is total cr*p. The Murray is going to Beckett to be graded (it is undersized). I will probably crack-out the rest and send them to Beckett also - they are Gem Mint!

Oh, and BTW, their spelling continues to s*ck (see card 7).

1 31503370 1981 FLEER 574 RICKEY HENDERSON N/A 9
2 31503371 1984 TOPPS 8 DON MATTINGLY N/A 9
3 31503372 1978 O-PEE-CHEE 154 EDDIE MURRAY ALL-STAR ROOKIE Not Holdered, Did not meet Minimum Size Requirements
4 31503373 1984 TOPPS 470 NOLAN RYAN N/A 9
5 31503374 1985 TOPPS 251 WARREN MOON N/A Not Holdered, Re-Colored
6 31503375 1983 TOPPS 360 NOLAN RYAN N/A 9
7 31503376 1998 TOPPS CLOUT 9 C8 KEN GRIFFEY JR. N/A 9

lawnmowerman

Scott
Did you pull the moon or buy it raw?

matt

MuckyMutt

I bought it raw from a local collector I personally know. Not only do I trust him, but I think I would have seen some evidence when I examined the card with my 10X - wouldn't I? I think just because it is a black border card that they just do that the first time.

lawnmowerman

Sorry about that.

Matt

brianwintersfan

Who the hell would re-color a $15.00 card??

jlbsquared

maybe it was the "Grader of Death II", you know, that 315 guy....

lawnmowerman

<< <i>maybe it was the "Grader of Death II", you know, that 315 guy.... >>

The thought crossed my mind.

Matt

NewJerseyMeatHook

Put away the Sharpie . . .

MuckyMutt

<< <i>maybe it was the "Grader of Death II", you know, that 315 guy.... >>



I didn't even want to metion that. I do believe 314 has been retired - but something tells me 315 is his reincarnation...

jmbkb4

<< <i>Who the hell would re-color a $15.00 card?? >>


You'd be surprised. I did it when I was 10 years old to my Shaq Stadium Club RC!!! Boy, was I dumb.

NewJerseyMeatHook

In all seriousness, what was the turnaround on your submission?

detroitfan2

Sorry about your grades Mucky!

On the bright side, I think you unknowingly coined some new message board slang/lingo (a Freudian slip on your part I'm sure):

Grades "POOPED": From this point forward, "pooped" will refer to grades the submitter is unhappy with.

"Popped" will continue to mean the submitter is satisified.

NewJerseyMeatHook

I think we've all experienced "pooped."

MuckyMutt

<< <i>In all seriousness, what was the turnaround on your submission? >>



The turnaround time: they logged them in on Monday the 20th, which was a postal holiday, so I think they had them the week before. I sent them Sat. Feb 11th. Grades posted on the 28th. Not too bad really. I have another submission in that was sent the same time and logged the same day. It is only 2 cards though. (I'll try to remain calm when the grades are posted. I don't think I can be any more dissapointed than I am now.)

Detroitfan - thanks for the laugh! It would be kind of neat if that caught on.

Stone193

Mucky

Could you provide the exact measurement within a 1/32" of the Murray card?

Now, on the black border - ya never know who may have colored the card - and it is possible you missed it with a 10X loupe.

The big point, on the "recoloration" - an inexpensive black light will definitely tell you whether someone touched up the card. Different inks will react in various ways when exposed to black light.

Some materials fluoresce brightly, some not at all and the rest somewhere in between. Fluorescence can differ in color. Some inks fluoresce yellow, some brown and some blue. This quality of fluorescence happens at the atomic level of the material.

But, in the interim - I recommend you hold the card under the light so you can see the surface and TILT the card a bit at varying degrees like you would to look for scratches - you may be surprised to find the "tell tale" touch job.

Sorry about your disappointment.

Check it out and see if you can see the "additional" coloring? If not? Sue!!!!

MuckyMutt

Thanks Stone. I forgot about the black light trick for recoloring. I will do that when I get it back. I did not try that before sending it in. The Murray card I pulled from a pack and it is cut small - I haven't exactly measured it - I just thought I would resubmit and hoped it would pass a second time. But it didn't. It is nicely centered and has sharp corners. I would really like to get some value out of it. I don't think it will ever pass PSA, so off to Beckett with it.

Also, I know the trick to examine the surface with the light reflecting off of it when held just right. I do that with all my cards that I submit. I did not see anything unusual when I examined the Moon that way.

Boopotts

Some days you get 9's, some days you get 10's. Some days you win, some days you lose and some days----it rains.

The larger point here is that you shouldn't submit cards if you're going to be bitterly disappointed if they come back 9's, since that means the cards weren't worth submitting in the first place. You can't submit stuff with the idea of getting 10's. Consider a 10 a bonus when and if it pop up, and restrict your submissions to those cards which you'll be happy getting a 9 or lower on.

Edit to say: I'm not trying to be a condescending wise acre. I've walked the road where you submit stuff banking on it coming back a 10, and believe me that road leads only to heartbreak. Just trying to save you some of the agony I went through when I first started submitting stuff.

pandrews

<< <i>I didn't even want to metion that. I do believe 314 has been retired - but something tells me 315 is his reincarnation... >>



before 314, the suspicion was 313..

SDavid

This might just be paranoia, but because there have been sooooo many complaints about strict grading posted here recently from a wide variety of users, it makes me wonder if psa has read all the complaints about bgs leniency and they're taking this opportunity to emphasize how superior their grading is. I haven't submitted any modern cards to psa recently, so I can't really say if they've gotten tougher, but I can't remember ever seeing this many complaints in the last few years.

yawie99

I agree, Boo. That doesn't look like a bad invoice to me.

Boopotts

<< <i>I agree, Boo. That doesn't look like a bad invoice to me. >>



A lot of this starts to make more sense once a guy acknowledges that there is no difference in quality between a 9 and a 10. Maybe a very select few of us, like DGF and Eagle Eye Kid, and discern the difference, but us mere mortals should put together our submissions with the idea that 'if I get all 9's on these cards, I'll be happy' (I'm of course speaking only of modern). If a 9 is going to disappoint you then don't send it in.

fiveniner

Been There happened to me.Pack fresh cards that I personally pulled out of the paks.NON HOLDERED.Simaler situation as your Murray.

bjork73

Why should it be acknowledged that there's no difference between a 9 and a 10? If a grading company is going to offer a gem-mint grade, then it had better make sure it is given to cards on a basis better than the grader's whim. Now, considering that it is certainly more difficult for somebody without the daily experience, skill, and equipment needed to professionally grade cards, one needs to consider that his/her assumptions are likely too lenient and factor that in when determining which/how many cards to grade, and even if to grade.

MuckyMutt

<< <i>Some days you get 9's, some days you get 10's. Some days you win, some days you lose and some days----it rains.

The larger point here is that you shouldn't submit cards if you're going to be bitterly disappointed if they come back 9's, since that means the cards weren't worth submitting in the first place. You can't submit stuff with the idea of getting 10's. Consider a 10 a bonus when and if it pop up, and restrict your submissions to those cards which you'll be happy getting a 9 or lower on.

Edit to say: I'm not trying to be a condescending wise acre. I've walked the road where you submit stuff banking on it coming back a 10, and believe me that road leads only to heartbreak. Just trying to save you some of the agony I went through when I first started submitting stuff. >>



Thanks - that's some excellent advice! And very well said - not condescending at all.

I feel better now that I've had a good night's sleep, and I wasn't in a really good mood yesterday anyway. I guess that's why it hit me wrong. I was actually trying to be realistic and hope for 1 or 2 tens in the bunch. The disappointment was that there were none.

Boopotts

<< <i>Why should it be acknowledged that there's no difference between a 9 and a 10? If a grading company is going to offer a gem-mint grade, then it had better make sure it is given to cards on a basis better than the grader's whim. Now, considering that it is certainly more difficult for somebody without the daily experience, skill, and equipment needed to professionally grade cards, one needs to consider that his/her assumptions are likely too lenient and factor that in when determining which/how many cards to grade, and even if to grade. >>



I should have phrased my comments better.

What I meant was:

1) 9's and 10's are, for the most part, interchangable.

2) What tiny differences there are in these two grades cannot be distinguished by most submitters.

smallstocks

<< <i>

<< <i>What I meant was:

1) 9's and 10's are, for the most part, interchangable.

2) What tiny differences there are in these two grades cannot be distinguished by most submitters. >>



. . . including the graders themselves.