Bizzare prices for Modern Crap at Torex auction

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

As an American observing the auctioning of "Modern Crap" such as 1949 quarters or maybe a 1965 quarter reaching "thousands of dollars" it seems as though the Canadians are as nutty as the Americans. For the finest known or the highest graded coin money is no object.I GOTTA HAVE IT !
What do you think ?

Stewart

Aethelred

I like coins that are "finest know" or top pop as much as anyone, but I am not willing to spend crazy money to get them. I have an 1817 British Sixpence that is graded MS-65 by NGC, it is tied for the highest graded example of that date (or was when I bought it), but if someone comes along and makes a 66 someday I will still be able to sleep at night. The people who pay insane money for otherwise common coins with high grades can't say that they would not care if someone comes along an makes a grade higher than theirs.

UncleWiggly

Do you have a link to the auctions you're talking about?



Jerry

bosox

Stewart,

That's why I mostly stick to the Vicky coins.

Rob

PBRat

Do you have a link to the auctions you're talking about?

Here's a couple ... 1949 25c 1965 25c

I don't have a problem with either of these prices, though the 1949 is a little more than I would pay, if I collected quarters. Cameo on business strikes is fairly uncommon, and contributes to the price of the 1965.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Well I can tell you when you see Alan Hager of Accugrade Fame bidding at a coin auction there is something NON-Kosher happening.He is not a collector of modern Canadian coins and he was bidding way too often.

Stewart

MrEureka

Well I can tell you when you see Alan Hager of Accugrade Fame bidding at a coin auction there is something NON-Kosher happening.He is not a collector of modern Canadian coins and he was bidding way too often.

Sounds like he's a dealer. Why is that "NON-Kosher"? Aren't dealers allowed to buy Canadian coins?

PBRat

Well I can tell you when you see Alan Hager of Accugrade Fame bidding at a coin auction there is something NON-Kosher happening.He is not a collector of modern Canadian coins and he was bidding way too often.

Maybe he's speculating on higher prices?



Someone find me a 1947 nickel in the same condition as the 1949, and I'll gladly pay 4 figures for it.

docday2003

I was the underbidder on the coin in question. It is MS67 - which is fairly uncommon for canadian coins, and it is solo finest. It would have fit in well with the other coins I have in that date run. On the one hand, I don't mind paying to get a nice coin, but that one was getting unreasonable, so I dropped out. For me part of the fun of owning top notch coins is getting a fair deal. But it is also hard to know what is fair for a solo finest coin. Another consideration is that (unlike USA coins), the Canadian pops don't change much. For example the Northern Lights Collection has a top pop MS67 (1/0) 1952 Low Relief, which was made a few years ago, and is still top pop.

The way I see it, if a coin is MS65 and top pop, with lots of coins in the next undergrade, then it isn't worth much of a premium, because another 65 will be made, and the pop will go up.

If a coin is MS 66 and top pop, it is worth a bit more of a premium (because there aren't tons of coins that make the grade).

If a coin is MS67 and top pop, it is worth a sizeable premium except in the situation where there are lots of coins that would make the grade....

As you can see it gets complicated.

docday2003

<< <i>As an American observing the auctioning of "Modern Crap" such as 1949 quarters or maybe a 1965 quarter reaching "thousands of dollars" it seems as though the Canadians are as nutty as the Americans. For the finest known or the highest graded coin money is no object.I GOTTA HAVE IT !
What do you think ?

Stewart >>



By the way, didn't I see you at one of the Mason Collection auctions, paying way over trends for canadian small cents?

And now you have a sharp set to display them in!Stewart Blay

docday2003

<< <i>Well I can tell you when you see Alan Hager of Accugrade Fame bidding at a coin auction there is something NON-Kosher happening.He is not a collector of modern Canadian coins and he was bidding way too often.

Stewart >>



I notice that he probably has more certified canadian coins listed on ebay than anyone else. I think that he is trying to become THE major player in Canada.

shirohniichan

Cameo on business strikes is fairly uncommon, and contributes to the price of the 1965.

Aren't cameos on business strike 1965 dollars fairly common, though? Is it only the 1965 25 cent pieces that are scarce with cameos?

PBRat

Aren't cameos on business strike 1965 dollars fairly common, though? Is it only the 1965 25 cent pieces that are scarce with cameos?

I'm not really familiar with dollars, but are you thinking of 1965 Prooflike dollars having cameo as common?

cladking

Modern coins never got much interest because they were ignored. Initially most were
ignored because silver was removed from the coinage and collectors felt that debased
junk wasn't worthy of study. Then it became something more like a habit. Mintages are
usually huge and there was a perception that all these coins would be common to the end
of time.

In the last ten years there have been some big changes to focus ttention on these coins.
In Canada there were the numerous circulating commems while in Europe there was the
discontinuation of currencies which had been in use for hundreds of years and had roots
which went back even further. Throughout the world there are large numbers of new col-
lectors and these folks don't have the natural aversion to all things modern that we old-
timers do. Indeed, a fifty year old coin can seem very old to a collector who never sees a
coin older than a few years in pocket change.

The real reason that moderns were cheap until recently isn't that they were plentiful. The
coins have been lost, worn, and melted in staggering numbers. Some weren't set aside at
all, and are virtually impossible to find nice. The reason moderns were cheap is that there
was no demand. Even very scarce coins still trade at relatively low prices and some will
list at a dollar or two, but this new demand is exposing coin after coin that was long ass-
umed to be common. As time goes on these new collectors will collectively determine what
is rare and what is merely scarce. Individually they will profiting from what they learn and
putting much of this back into their hobby.

This is a process which is only now getting off the ground. Those who think this is the end
of a bubble are probably missing a bigger picture.

ccrdragon

well said, clad!

as for Mr. Hagar, he's been trying to make inroads into the foreign market for awhile - take a look at the foreign coins on ebay and you will see. I have seen a number of African coins in his holders and I would assume that he's playing into the other markets as well. I coul dsay something in here about his rep but I really don't want to get sued....

coinkat

I am not sure that George VI coinage constitutes modern crap... modern? yes... crap? no. Some of the Canadian coinage during his reign in high grade is not easy to find in lofty grades...

docday2003

<< <i>I am not sure that George VI coinage constitutes modern crap... modern? yes... crap? no. Some of the Canadian coinage during his reign in high grade is not easy to find in lofty grades... >>



and the reality is 1949 ain't exactly modern either!

bosox

Doc,

Did you buy anything? I went Newfy this for this auction and bought lots 237, 245, and 274.

Rob

docday2003

<< <i>Doc,

Did you buy anything? I went Newfy this for this auction and bought lots 237, 245, and 274.

Rob >>



I actually wasn't interested in most of the auction. As you know, I mainly collect 5¢, which was weak in this auction. I was interested in the 1949 25¢, but not completely sold on it. So, it was the only lot I bid on. I was somewhat interested in a few other lots, but didn't get around to bidding. So I guess that my juices just weren't flowing this time around. Maybe next time!

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

Docday 2003 - There was no copper in the Mason collection that went in my George V set.I got most of my set from the Art Cox collection and privately through a Canadian dealer.
I was making a market in Canadian small cents and supporting it at the Mason sale.I laughed my a$$ off when I could buy a 1937 George VI in gem red uncirculated for $100 ...... and that was over market price.
I am a copper specialist and you can find my sets on the PCGS Set Registry in both Canadian and U.S.I have been to many auctions and seen all sorts of shenanigans.I hope this is not going to happen in Canada.
Stewart

docday2003

<< <i>Docday 2003 - There was no copper in the Mason collection that went in my George V set.I got most of my set from the Art Cox collection and privately through a Canadian dealer.
I was making a market in Canadian small cents and supporting it at the Mason sale.I laughed my a$$ off when I could buy a 1937 George VI in gem red uncirculated for $100 ...... and that was over market price.
I am a copper specialist and you can find my sets on the PCGS Set Registry in both Canadian and U.S.I have been to many auctions and seen all sorts of shenanigans.I hope this is not going to happen in Canada.
Stewart >>



I wasn't implying that it was the Mason stuff you were after, but I definitely saw you at at least one of the auctions which had his stuff. I just can't recall if it was the summer CNA in Vancouver, or the fall Torex. And I do recall you bidding above "trends".

I also wasn't trying to imply that Mason was responsible for your set, only that your set is tops - which is worth a premium!

coinkat

There are collectors on both sides of the Atlantic that would classify coins from 1949 as coins from the modern era...

docday2003

<< <i>There are collectors on both sides of the Atlantic that would classify coins from 1949 as coins from the modern era... >>



sure, they are modern "era", but so are all greyside coins then. As opposed to "ancients". But they certainly are not the modern NCLT giftware, so to speak.

MacCrimmon

<< <i>As an American observing the auctioning of "Modern Crap" such as 1949 quarters or maybe a 1965 quarter reaching "thousands of dollars" it seems as though the Canadians are as nutty as the Americans. For the finest known or the highest graded coin money is no object.I GOTTA HAVE IT !
What do you think ?

Stewart >>



And then . . . . . . . . there's those modern, tiny 1919 Lincoln cents with bristly beards as opposed to sweet milk chocolate "Apple Cheeks".

PBRat

I consider Canadian "modern" to be 1953 to date. 1953 was the year Queen Elizabeth II appeared on the coins, and also the year when Prooflike coin sets appeared.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

I agree with PB rat. Modern is 1953 to date.My next question is what do you call 1949 ? A middle date ?
At least we agree that 1965 is "Modern" ........

Stewart

coinkat

1965 is modern... I agree with that. 1949 and perhaps most Canadian coinage in general would be considered modern if one considers the minting process and not designs.