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Wisconsin variety dies
JungleFever
Posts: 516
The mint doesn't have to explain anything, and they do a good job of that with their 'story' of these extra leaf quarters!
We know that each die is numbered AND tracked throughout it's life until it's face is ground off. Also, when a die change is made, that is recorded, too, with the corresponding serial numbers. In fact, maintenence records are very detailed, as well as number of impressions struck with a die, etc. It's a very weak argument for the MINT to say that.... two very deep gouges just magically happened on ONE press in ONE hour. I mean, these are DEEP gouges. How often do you see a gouge that deep? And, the level of the 'gouge' just happens to be consistent with the level of the other leaves, too. And, 2 in one hour, with unrecorded die changes???? He-He..
I have a question: what is the value of 1 coin in a mintage of about 10,000 US coins? I'm assuming these are mint varieties, the gouge theory doesn't hold water for a number of reasons. That being my assumption, what would you think a low mintage coin of any kind...let alone one of these Wisconsin quarters...... be worth?
Thanks, Larry
We know that each die is numbered AND tracked throughout it's life until it's face is ground off. Also, when a die change is made, that is recorded, too, with the corresponding serial numbers. In fact, maintenence records are very detailed, as well as number of impressions struck with a die, etc. It's a very weak argument for the MINT to say that.... two very deep gouges just magically happened on ONE press in ONE hour. I mean, these are DEEP gouges. How often do you see a gouge that deep? And, the level of the 'gouge' just happens to be consistent with the level of the other leaves, too. And, 2 in one hour, with unrecorded die changes???? He-He..
I have a question: what is the value of 1 coin in a mintage of about 10,000 US coins? I'm assuming these are mint varieties, the gouge theory doesn't hold water for a number of reasons. That being my assumption, what would you think a low mintage coin of any kind...let alone one of these Wisconsin quarters...... be worth?
Thanks, Larry
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I can't answer your questions. The mint probably didn't want to fire anyone and
felt they'd have to if they agreed these were intentional. The problen, too, is that
it may have been impossible to locate the guilty party.
It's not impossible these were inadvertant so the mint just went with this.
While they track the dies, they claim they didn't have the test coin struck by these
dies during the investigation.
<< <i>It's a very weak argument for the MINT to say that.... two very deep gouges just magically happened on ONE press in ONE hour. >>
They never claimed that that happened. The mint report only addressed ONE of the two varieties. And they don't have the die, no report from the time of the damage that was on the die, no representative coin from the die. Just the rememberance of a pressman about one particular die among all the thousands that he has handled, from just before his lunch hour five months ago.
Sounds like an ironclad explaination to me. With all that evidence how could you possibly doubt them.
I received a call way back in February, 2005 from a serious error collector concerning a unopened mint box of WI D State Quarters that I was selling at the time on Ebay. The caller proceeded to say in our telephone conversation that even at that time, (2/05), the Denver Mint HAD NARROWED IT DOWN TO THREE LIKELY EMPLOYEES and that the culprits were able to make all the Low Leaf Quarters that they wanted but were caught making the High Leaf Variety Quarters. In fact, the caller stated that the Mint Officials had the HIGH LEAF DIE in their possessuion !! Maybe this is some "FOOD FOR THOUGHT". Rick Snow of Eagle Eye Rare Coins and who is a variety coin expert is writing a complete book about the subject of the Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters. The book maybe released next year !! The story of these rare coins is certainly not over !! Mark.
Hi Mr. Smith!
"Live long and prosper"
My "How I Started" columns
I trust that you are doing great !! As of Monday, November 13, 2006 there has only been 5,783 High Leaf WI D Quarters graded by PCGS and NGC, combined. The total of only 7,806 Low Leaf Quarters graded by PCGS and NGC combined !! That makes a grand total of only 13,589 total for BOTH Varieties !!
Less than six thousand of the rarest coin and a whopping number of less than 8 thousand for the more "common" Low Leaf coin !! All this after almost TWO YEARS of submissions !! The numbers being submitted each week have dwindled greatly !!
I really do not see the comparison of rariety and price when I compare the Rare Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarters to the US Mint's the stated mintage of 10,000 Reverse Proof AGE Coins, all in near or perfect condition selling for what maybe inflated prices today compared to future levels !! How many Millions of coin collectors collect the State Quarters. The horse will be let out of the gate (Texas Talk) if Dansco or Whitman ever make slots in their albums for the High and Low Variety Wisconsin Statehood Quarters !! IMHO. Mark.
It certainly would be nice. Maybe an all new Dansco is in order for just die varieties?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The horse will be let out of the gate (Texas Talk) if Dansco or Whitman ever make slots in
their albums for the High and Low Variety Wisconsin Statehood Quarters !! >>
This was discussed in a thread a while back. It would be nice if the slots were added, because
it would make the coin prices go way up as every serious collector would need one to complete the
set.
I have a feeling that it won't. The error/variety controversary will prohibit it. Unless its
definitively settled, no manufacturer will attempt it and risk embarrassment. JMHO.
My first post...updated with pics
I collect mostly moderns and I'm currently working on a US type set.
<< <i> Where would it stop? Before or after the 56 Minnesota Extra Tree Varieties?
>>
56 varieties?
The regular, non extra-tree, coins sound like the real variety for that issue. Amazing.
<< <i>
<< <i> Where would it stop? Before or after the 56 Minnesota Extra Tree Varieties?
>>
56 varieties?
The regular, non extra-tree, coins sound like the real variety for that issue. Amazing. >>
Whoops! I forgot about the Minnesota Non-Extra Tree Variety which jumps it to 57 which makes it the Heinz Quarter!
The name is LEE!
These coins have had a nice run, pause, and now on a run again. These will be the modern day three legged Buffalo. It just needs some promotion and next years book will be just that. Look at how the Cheerios Sac dollar exploded, 5,500 of them mostly high graded circs imo. The 2000 P Goodacre dollar continues to rise into the $600 ungraded, 5,000 coins.
Morgan, modern sets, circulated Kennedys, and Wisconsin error leaf quarter Collector
First (and only - so far) Official "You Suck" Award from Russ 2/9/07
definitively settled, no manufacturer will attempt it and risk embarrassment.
A very well respected author, metalurgist and die variety expert is finalizing an outstanding article regarding the cause of the variety. Using an electron microscope and scientific analysis, he came to the same conclusion I've held all along. He even kept his research private from me so I wouldn't influence him. He's proven without a doubt that these were hand made at the Mint in the engraving room using a circular tool. I think it will be written for Coin World and then an in-depth article will be in The Numismatist.
The controversy is over.
so the question now is; why were the dies tooled to add extra leaves.
will it be anounced that whatever the reason was the work was authorized so, forget conspiracy theories etc...?
<< <i>okay there was no accidental tool drop
so the question now is; why were the dies tooled to add extra leaves.
will it be anounced that whatever the reason was the work was authorized so, forget conspiracy theories etc...? >>
Mere horseplay. This has always gone on at the mint. It really goes on everywhere but gets a lot of notice at the mint.
Living here in South Texas, I can tell you that the supply has all but dried up. Even many of the older Northeast Coin Dealers are convinced that the High and Low Leaf Wisconsin Quarters are "The Real Thing" and that we have turned the corner as to their real value !!
Many thanks are in order to Mr. Bob Ford who without his real interest in sharing new coin news many of us would never have found our first BU Wisconsin Extra Leaf Quarter !!
Note, both rare quarters were produced about this time two years ago at the Denver Mint where alot of underhanded things were going on at the time. Maybe those responsible will stand up and that credit for their handy work !! Mark.
Is it possible that the mint employee accidentally put an extra leaf in the die before he realized what he had done and let it go through since it was so small and thought no one would notice it?
Then the truth pssibly becomes; no one noticed it at the US Mint until collectors found it?
Why does everything have to involve "horseplay" or " deviousness" at the US Mint as opposed to just a old fashioned goof?
<< <i>Talking about the possibility that this variety was mere horseplay.
Is it possible that the mint employee accidentally put an extra leaf in the die before he realized what he had done and let it go through since it was so small and thought no one would notice it?
Then the truth pssibly becomes; no one noticed it at the US Mint until collectors found it?
Why does everything have to involve "horseplay" or " deviousness" at the US Mint as opposed to just a old fashioned goof? >>
The design originates as plaster models. It's not impossible that these leaves could
be added intentionally or inadvertantly at any stage of production but the fact that
they appear together and were apparently run on the same press implies intent. There
is little likelyhood of these having been added before the working hub was impressed
or more dies would likely have struck the coins or there would be a record of such a
thing. They were probably added to the dies and it was probably intentional. It's very
highly unlikely that there was and sort of official approval of these alterrations.