Heads up! Two overgraded Jeffersons!

leothelyon

A 1949-D PCGS MS66FS and 1950-D PCGS MS66FS are up in Teletrade! IMO the reverses are way too understruck to be called MS66 calibur coins. Each have a nice halo effect on the reverses, an obvious indication of a poor strike. They both grade MS64 tops! When I see coins like these entered into the registries, this tells me alot about the overall quality of those collections!




Leo

LincolnsRule

In that free pres review offer last spring I sent an ms65 1967 looking for an ms66. HRH said no due to strike weakness on the reverse. It was far better than those two you pictured!

leothelyon

The way it was described to me, how PCGS grades coins, they'll base the grade on the obverse only then look at the reverse to see if there are any marks that will bring the grade down. They'll immediately know what a coin will grade by looking at the obverse unless the reverse has something significant to lower the grade! This info was based on a conversation someone had with DH on grading coins at a coin show.
The history of grading coins started out with split grading. For example; MS65/63. Then sometime later, it was determined the lesser of the two grades was the assigned grade for the coin. But today, they only grade the obverse!

Leo

emzee

Leo,
I disagree with your assertion that the 2 coins are not well-struck. The reverse dies used to strike both coins are worn dies, having previously been used to strike tens or perhaps hundreds of thousands of nickels. As a result of heavy use, some details are worn off the dies (windows on Monticello, for example); design has begun to spread out; there are orange-peel surfaces at periphery. The fact that the steps are sharp indicates that all detail present on the dies was transferred to the blank planchets. I would describe these 2 coins as well-struck from worn dies. Such coins are clearly less attractive than coins which are well-struck from early die-state dies and to many observers, less attractive than coins from new dies which are less than fully struck.

This brings up another issue: can a coin which looks "mushy" because it was created by worn dies be awarded a high grade when it is well-struck, mark-free , lustrous etc. or should the mushiness drag down the grade by creating negative eye appeal?

LincolnsRule

I think most people lump struck from worn dies and poorly struck in the same category. Either way it makes for a lousy coin.

SUPERCARCOINS

.........they do indeed look like their lacking rev. detail ;

but they are denoted as having full steps !!

how could a weak strike produce F.S ?

maybe it an obvious mechanical error

leothelyon

emzee,

It's ok to collect coins like those two, just don't spend more than $10 for them.


how could a weak strike produce F.S ?

supercarcoins,

I think I'm getting better at explaining this each time this question comes up!

When the original design was all there in the working dies, there was plenty of spaces for the metal to flow into with each strike. With the design full in the working dies, unfortunately the metal flow didn't always reach the steps. As the areas of the coin, where the metal did reach, wears down, through the repetitive hammering of the working dies from striking thousands of planchets, the working dies would eventually flatten out. During the first few thousands of strikes, while most of the original design was wearing down, the step area would remain in perfect condition. That is, until the metal flow began to consistently reach that area. Because little design remained out around the steps, there was only one place for the metal to go and that was the little worn area of the steps. This is why we see weakly struck coins with steps.

I hope this helped.

Leo

Edited to put everything intoed pass tense!

SUPERCARCOINS

Thanks Leo !

DennisH

Two more examples of why I choose to collect non-FS Jeffs.

leothelyon

<< <i>Two more examples of why I choose to collect non-FS Jeffs. >>



Hi Dennis,

Very much like a farmer's wife gathering eggs from a henhouse, they'll end up in someone's registry egg carton!

Leo

leothelyon

This coin was also graded MS66 and it's in TT........................................do the coin graders ever come onto the boards and share their views on their work? I would be very interested in what they'd have too say about the quality of these coins. Even if it's all good stuff, I'd still like to hear it.



Leo

seanq

Leo,

That coin looks like a technical 65 that got a one-point bump for the almost-but-not-quite full steps. Back when I was actively collecting these, I really came to dislike the 1950s era coins in late die state with that heavy orange-peel texture in the fields.


Sean Reynolds

leothelyon

<< <i>Leo,

That coin looks like a technical 65 that got a one-point bump for the almost-but-not-quite full steps.

Sean Reynolds >>



Hi Sean,
That last coin was also FS. Here's an ANACS MS66 5 Step, also on TT. Well, as they say, if you don't know me all that well, ALL MS65 and up must have full strikes to receive the FS designation. So far, none of the coins pixed so are FS coins The FS designation and any other attribute; FBL, FH and so on are added to the grade for coins that are fully struck! I would avoid these coins as they lack quality and the serious collectors know it!


These coins seem to be getting worst and worser by the minute!

Leo