why was the Rutter thread pulled??

flatfoot816 · February 16, 2006 12:21AM

anyone know why it was pulled? Why can't the collectors share pertinent info on someone who may very well be doing bad things? It is apparently OK for Ryan to use this forum to boast about his qualifications, but when we question them, the topic gets pulled? Does the moderator care to comment?

mikeschmidt · February 16, 2006 12:31AM

<< anyone know why it was pulled? Why can't the collectors share pertinent info on someone who may very well be doing bad things? It is apparently OK for Ryan to use this forum to boast about his qualifications, but when we question them, the topic gets pulled? Does the moderator care to comment? >>

I think allegations made about someone stiffing a certain auction house for tens of thousands of dollars - especially posted without substantiation, is the type of information that will consistently get a thread pulled.

gmoneystyles · February 16, 2006 9:18AM

WinPitcher · February 16, 2006 11:24AM

Steve

brianwintersfan · February 16, 2006 12:21PM

Well I do have first hand knowledge of Ryan's questionable business practices as of late and all I can say is that GAI is in the market for a new pack grader! Pulling someone's chain around for months over a $10,000+ transaction is unacceptable.
One more reason Steve at BBCE is still the king. The guy goes above and beyond for his customers without coming on here to boost his ego.

Fletch1750 · February 16, 2006 1:55PM

I missed the thread what auction house did he stiff? That guy claimed he had $400,000 in cash ready to spend on cards at a major show recently.

gaspipe26 · February 16, 2006 7:30PM

JP does a nice job too over at Memory.

flatfoot816 · February 16, 2006 11:39PM

glad to see this one was re-posted. Not tryng to make anyone look bad. But when it came time for Rutter to post comments as to why he was king of pack authenticating it was allowed. Wy not give him a chance to deny those nasty rumors? Where there is smoke, is there fire? GAI has confirmed that he is no longer employed there. Murphy was supposed to get hired, and according to an e-mail Murphy sent a colelctor(which I saw) he was waiting for a contract. On another forum, GAI apparently is saying that PAul Wright will be grading again. Now that would be GREAT. Paul does not really sell, to my knowledge. I have a huge problem with a grader/authenticator grading and/or authenticating packs...and then selling them. As we have discussed, this is a huge conflict...even for the most honest of all people. And while in my opinion Steve Hart is the king...he will find that perception is worst than reality if/when he starts grading for PSA.
How about it Ryan...care to comment??

flatfoot816 · February 17, 2006 10:30PM

seems no one has any answers...too bad. Oh well, it's not as if vintage pack prices are soaring through the stratosphere or anything. Let's just sit back and take another couple of shots between the eyes. What's another re-sealed pack amongst friends?

brianwintersfan · February 18, 2006 5:27AM

Not sure what else can be said except Ryan was making deals and not coming through with the goods he promised. The fact that GAI cut ties with him speaks volumes to his character and honesty.

WinPitcher · February 18, 2006 6:15AM

Wow!!

I can't believe that GAI would cut ties with the ONLY human that can authenticate vintage packs in the world!! What is going on?

What will they do now?

Steve

ctsoxfan · February 18, 2006 7:52AM

Perhaps we'll find out Monday, Steve.

Wabittwax · February 18, 2006 9:40AM

<< I can't believe that GAI would cut ties with the ONLY human that can authenticate vintage packs in the world!! What is going on? >>

You don't think that Mark Murphy is qualified to authenticate unopened packs?

WinPitcher · February 18, 2006 10:04AM

Not according to Ryan, Wabbitt

Steve

MorrellMan · February 18, 2006 10:06AM

<< 

<< I can't believe that GAI would cut ties with the ONLY human that can authenticate vintage packs in the world!! What is going on? >>

You don't think that Mark Murphy is qualified to authenticate unopened packs? >>

LOL - I think Ryan made it abundantly clear that, in his opinion, no human on earth possessed his authenticating expertise. .

His appearance here stunk from the moment he stepped in the door.

Fletch1750 · February 18, 2006 10:36AM

Was Mark Murphy the guy who was marketing those rediculous Holiday rewrap packs?

Griffins · February 18, 2006 1:05PM

<<Was Mark Murphy the guy who was marketing those rediculous Holiday rewrap packs? >>

That was him. And defended them in a profanity filled email to another collector last week.
They should keep looking for an authenticator. Why step backwards?

eyebone · February 18, 2006 8:36PM

Interesting thread guys, but I am in the dark a little bit.

I remember a couple of Ryan's boastful comments (not only about his pack grading expertise, but also about his abundant supply of cash). What did he do exactly and to whom did he do it?

Eyebone

gaspipe26 · February 19, 2006 1:20AM

What school do you go to to be a pack grading expect? Do you need a doctorate in gumology? Any knowledgeable collector can IN MY OPINION, examine wax packs and look for the folds on the flaps, or how the wax seal looks and have a pretty good idea if the pack has been tampered with. I think I'll contact Steve and see if I can get the job.

brianwintersfan · February 19, 2006 3:21AM

<< What did he do exactly and to whom did he do it? >>

Not going to name names on here but the person I know that had a problem with Ryan is someone I know personally. He is a good guy and someone who spends big money of cards/wax he likes. Ryan made promises he couldn't keep and kept jerking him around and that's the bottom line. Luckily he was able to get his money back with was a rather large purchase. I have told him to deal with Steve over at BBCE.

RipublicaninMass · February 19, 2006 3:39AM

<< <<Was Mark Murphy the guy who was marketing those rediculous Holiday rewrap packs? >>

That was him. And defended them in a profanity filled email to another collector last week.
They should keep looking for an authenticator. Why step backwards? >>

I can't believe Murphy would rationize these holiday packs. However they ARE unopened, any stars would be showing on the front. Because TP THE BETS OF MY LLIMITED KNOWLEDGE they were issued after the fact to sell leftovers. Therefore any strs at the time woul dbe placed on the top to increase sales. I have seen many holiday racks with stars on top, which were ex-mt at best, but unopened. could I have a PM of the proffanity laced email defending this crap?? I opened a few of them and felt ROBBED.

WinPitcher · February 19, 2006 6:22AM

MO on those rewraps. At the right price I see no problem in buying them.

What i mean is simply if I see one with a Koufax rookie on top I would buy it at the right price. Not at the inflated prices that some guys try to sell them at. If i felt the Koufax was in EX condition I would pay what I felt was EX price for the pack.

Steve

dakota · February 19, 2006 8:09AM

I have been sitting on my fingers ever since this thread started but have to say if it is indeed true that GAI let Ryan go.....it is the one of the best decisions that company has ever made IMO. The writing was on the wall. Kudos to them.
I also personally know for a fact that he jerked someones chain pretty good for a decent amount of money and I had second experience with him that Im not gonna elaborate on but it would definitely leave you questioning his buisness practices/ehthics.
Thats all I gotta say about that.

gregm13 · February 19, 2006 8:34AM

If Steve at BBCE doesn't have what I'm looking for - then I don't buy it. I've bought from Mark Murphy before but he hasn't updated his site for new football in well over a year - probably closer to 18 months. I have no idea what he's been up to lately. Anyone know?

Regards,

Greg M.

brianwintersfan · February 19, 2006 9:51AM

<< I've bought from Mark Murphy before but he hasn't updated his site for new football in well over a year - probably closer to 18 months. I have no idea what he's been up to lately. Anyone know? >>

He seems to be getting more stuff back up on Ebay so maybe he is coming out of retirement??

flatfoot816 · February 20, 2006 4:20AM

The following is an e-mail from Murphy to a dedicated vintage pack collector. I was one of the ones who was lucky enough to buy the first round of Christmas Raks from Mark. Paid dearly for them and then found out they were more abundant than '88 Donruss. Not what I was told when I was bidding on them. Would love to sell them back at what I paid--think he would buy them?

From: Mark Murphy
To:
Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: GAI and it's future

Hi , If you want to tell your pack collecting friends some real news. Global Authentication just fired Ryan Rutter, you'll have to ask them why. But I am, as of now, going to start authenticating and grading packs for them once again. I'm waiting for the contract to get finalized. I believe this will be a big benefit to the unopened pack collecting world once again, as the other 2 pack graders did not do an outstanding job, thus they are not there. I'm looking forward to getting the packs graded, accurately, consistently, and correctly !!! Thanks, Mark Murphy The Baseball Card "Kid"

WinPitcher · February 20, 2006 4:23AM

Interesting................

Nice of him to trash Ryan in his email.

I think he could have just notified people that he was again going to authenticate packs for global, (and then sell some at his store)

Steve

SDavid · February 20, 2006 6:23AM

I believe this will be a big benefit to the unopened pack collecting world once again, as the other 2 pack graders did not do an outstanding job, thus they are not there.

Well, that's lovely. Now how are consumers supposed to know when a pack was graded and by whom?

If there have been that many problems with their grading, then GAI needs to start placing the certification number on the front of the slab and allow consumers to find out when the pack was graded and by whom.

ctsoxfan · February 20, 2006 6:37AM

Who's the best pack grader now? Who will dare accept such a hugely monumental title, one that obviously requires years and years of highly specialized training? Who's going to step up, and be the next pack grading superstar?

Blah, blah, blah...

5STAT · February 20, 2006 8:17AM

Is it just me or is the repeated underrlying theme of this thread...

"all past GAI pack graders all have sucked and have been skemers..and all have been suspect"

Now Mark Murphy pops back up selling GAI packs on Ebay....hmmm who graded those?? 1986 Fleer Basketball GAI 10 pack...$1,000+...cummon.........ONE PACK PEOPLE....

With all that is being said....how can any of it be good? It really puts GAI lower in the dumps then they already are...

gmoneystyles · February 20, 2006 9:16AM

I wont touch anything GAI

Morgoth · February 20, 2006 10:17AM

GAI is starting to loose credibility in card grading as well. There have been way too many people trying to cross over those half grade cards and getting them back at the lower grade. If you look at the prices those half grades like 8.5's are bring 8 or less money. Some dealers won't touch them due to the registry's popularity.

bxb · February 20, 2006 10:18AM

Here is a prior thread of interest:

Ryan Rutter Comments

WinPitcher · February 20, 2006 10:43AM

So bxb did Ryan help you or.................?

Steve

tedh111 · February 20, 2006 11:36AM

That thread made me think a bit... Authenticating as a conflict of interest?... The people that are generally the most knowledgable in authenticating, whether it be autographs, game used items, or unoped materials are dealers who have had a lot of experience buying selling and researching. I wouldm uch rather have them authenticating items then someone who has only recently been trained... The second part of this is, why would one of these dealers leave his business behind to become a full time salaried employee for a company that probably wont be paying him anywhere as much as he is making from his own business? I think in order to have experts authenticating, you just have to have trust that they wont give their own materials any passes. Of course, the same thing could happen with any dealer who isnt also an authenticator anyway!

gmoneystyles · February 20, 2006 12:05PM

A little off topic, but GAI's website stinks. It's pretty unprofessional. I seem to remember it being much better in its early days.

gaspipe26 · February 20, 2006 12:20PM

I guess my opinion is that it would be a conflict of interest if he authenticated items he was submitting.

Morgoth · February 20, 2006 12:27PM

I think it is a huge ethical delima. PSA has or had Superior Sports for a long time. They bought and sold cards and auctioned them off. To me you can't buy on the open market and then grade those same cards and keep a straight face. You can scream you are ethical and don't know who's cards your grading till you blue in the face but when you start dumping soft nines on the market you lose credibility. Also anybody here know what happened to the When it was a game crew?

Onlypsahockey · February 20, 2006 12:32PM

*POOF*

gmoneystyles · February 20, 2006 12:37PM

Thread Link

"Defendants John Slight and Craig Kreider of When It Was A Game, Inc. pled guilty to mail fraud and both were given probation. Kreider and Slight were fined $3,000 each and the corporation of When It Was A Game, Inc. also was fined $6,000.

Also, they are still legally obligated to make full restitution for any fraudulent cards that still exist. They are obligated to give full restitution through 2005."

Morgoth · February 20, 2006 1:31PM

Is there any idea to how many cards they dumped? I wish they would publish which cards they changed grades on and how many they think are out there. I know they did a ton of Bonds and Jordans but I know they did vintage because we had a 63 Fleer PSA 8 Mays that had a crease in it, when we took it back they just said it was PSA's mistake. Should have known right then they were crooked.

spazzy · May 7, 2006 10:42AM

I know this is an older post but it was interesting reading since i missed it the first time. Has anyone else heard any Ryan sightings recently or any other stories? While reading this thread I wondered if it also means Ryan was selling bad stuff unopened on his web site or at shows? Does anyone have any experience receiving bad stuff from him?

flatfoot816 · May 8, 2006 4:02AM

have not heard anything about Ryan Rutter. As As for buying bad stuff, no personal experience since I never bought from him. Things just did not click with him and me. As for Murphy, he has been selling on eBay all of those "header less" raks. Now there's another scam, in my opinion. GAI has not come out and said much about all their problems. Hoping the news would die off I am sure. As for now, I do not send in anything else to get graded by them. Rather wait until PSA starts to grade packs.

brianwintersfan · May 8, 2006 4:20AM

To be honest with you there is crooked stuff that goes on with all of these companies. I was talking to someone the other day who I know and trust who has dealt with a lot of the big submitters and there are many trimmed cards making there way into companies holders. Nobody is totally safe from it. I won't get into naming companies because I don't want to piss off the powers that be but the smart people can figure it out. Are they as out of control as say Pro or Gem?? The answer is no but it is happening so be careful what you buy.

etown99girl · May 8, 2006 5:03AM

Any word on when and if PSA will grade PACKS?

MarkJ · May 8, 2006 5:21AM

Hmm... Murphy must be reading these post. His store just closed for maintenance.

Authenticating for GAI and selling Graded GAI is a conflict of interest?

jayhawke · May 8, 2006 7:01AM

<< I was talking to someone the other day who I know and trust who has dealt with a lot of the big submitters and there are many trimmed cards making there way into companies holders. >>

That reminds me of when I get change back at the local store, and when I get home I find a Canadian penny.

flatfoot816 · May 10, 2006 10:47AM

PSA had sent out a press release last year saying that sometime in 2006 it would start to grade packs. Still waiting...most collectors who collect, rather than sell, are holding onto their packs rather than sending them in to grade by GAI. Too much turn a round at GAI--Rutter, Murphy, someone else next week I am sure.

I agree on the conflict of interest. PSA press release said that Steve Hart was to be grading for them. Certainly they have to pick an expert pack guy, but eyebrows start to get raised when all of a sudden, after not selling for almost 2 years, one current dealer begins to grade for GAI and has numerous PSA-10 packs to sell. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!

sagard · May 10, 2006 1:14PM

<< I agree on the conflict of interest. PSA press release said that Steve Hart was to be grading for them. Certainly they have to pick an expert pack guy, but eyebrows start to get raised when all of a sudden, after not selling for almost 2 years, one current dealer begins to grade for GAI and has numerous PSA-10 packs to sell. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM!! >>

Could you try this part again?

MARKSFBCARDS · May 10, 2006 1:49PM

Hey all, just thought I would join in the fun...

I have bought from Rutter and the boxes I opened were very sharp, I submitted a bunch and all came back 9's & 10's. So for my experience the material was clean.

I also buy and sell a lot of GAI material and have found them to be pretty good for the most part. Slow turnaround time but good in grading. They probably dont catch everything but I know they dont let some bad stuff through. I had a couple packs I bought off ebay get returned as re-sealed so I know they are at least trying.

In regards to Steve Hart and PSA pack grading, I look forward to it. Steve is a good guy and I have bought a lot of unopened from him. One point to note. He must have some confidence in GAI too since his site is loaded with GAI packs. Not making any other point here than, he must trust their grading to a good extent if he is willing to carry that much GAI material. The question is probably, will he carry PSA packs once he starts grading? Is that a conflict? Is it worse if he grades for PSA but only carries GAI packs in his store? Just wondering.

Anyways, I'm not sure any grading company will 100% get the pack authentication right, but I think it may be better than no services of the kind to help collectors at least weed out some of the bad product. Without them, I think it would be worse. Again, I look forward to PSA joining the club.

MARKS Football Cards

MARKS Ebay Store

brianwintersfan · May 11, 2006 3:35PM

<< One point to note. He must have some confidence in GAI too since his site is loaded with GAI packs. >>

But isn't it a safe bet that these are packs he submitted himself?? All GAI would be doing in that case is slabbing them since Steve is more than capable to pick out a bogus pack before they would even see it.