Best NBA Player Ever

DirtyHarry · February 15, 2006 11:01AM

Most folks give Michael Jordan kudos as the best. I disagree. Who's your "Best Ever" NBA player and why?

Sheamaster · February 15, 2006 11:37AM

Jordan...for his ability to take over games and win championships.

ArnyVee · February 15, 2006 11:41AM

Magic Johnson is my all time favorite basketball player. Aside from making his teammates better players and superstars on the court, he was also a tremendous showman. He ran "Showtime" when no one else could've possibly made the same impact. 6' 9" Point Guard and one of the best clutch performers in history.

Magic is THE man!

frankhardy · February 15, 2006 11:50AM

Michael Jordan - without a doubt.

He could do it all. He could score by outside shooting, driving to the basket and dunking, driving to the basket for an incredible layup, posting up a 7 footer, blowing by a point guard. He made his teamates better. He won 6 rings. He was clutch. Name one player you would want taking the last shot of a game. He is the third all time leading scorer as far as total points, and that was while missing 5 seasons. Just think if he had not retired. He has the highest scoring average of anyone in history. He revolutionized the game.

Michael Jordan - without a doubt.

softparade · February 15, 2006 12:00PM

Mike Gminski

SDSportsFan · February 15, 2006 12:41PM

Wilt Chamberlain!

Still the only player to AVERAGE 50 points-a-game for an entire season!

Steve

tripoli · February 15, 2006 2:02PM

Didn't Wilt average a triple-double some years as well? Also, he has a lifetime rebounding average of 20+, I think.

ctsoxfan · February 15, 2006 2:06PM

DH, you are going to need one heck of an argument to not pick Jordan here...

My choice would be MJ, but my personal all-time favorite was Larry Bird. No one worked harder than him, and he had that special ability to make his team better just by playing on it. Along with Magic, he basically saved the NBA - and ushered in a great era of hoops that soon gave way to Jordan and his dominance.

CardCoreCollector · February 15, 2006 2:19PM

Didn't Wilt average a triple-double some years as well?

No, that was Oscar Robertson

To me it's really not important who was the greatest, im just glad i got to see some great players play the game ( Magic-Bird-Jordan-Hakeem-Malone-Ewing-Barkley-Stockton and so many more )

Dave

bri2327 · February 15, 2006 7:23PM

My vote goes to the guy who was drafted just ahead of Jordan.........

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perkdog · February 15, 2006 11:15PM

Michael Jordan is the best all around player with Bird, Magic, Chamberlain, Jabbar and company arguably second best.

Stingray · February 16, 2006 1:10AM

<< My vote goes to the guy who was drafted just ahead of Jordan.........

---

>>

Sam Bowie, hah, hah.

Being a Pistons fan I hate say it, but I have to agree it was Jordan. How many games did he win or take over on his own?

Stingray

theRealist · February 16, 2006 3:30AM

As an individual player, Wilt Chamberlin was the best to ever play.

frankhardy · February 16, 2006 6:29AM

Wilt Chamberlain towered over everybody else, that's why his stats were so inflated. Skill wise, he was no where near the best player. You put Chamberlain in today's game, and he would be just an all star center. He would not even come close to dominating games. On the other hand, you put Jordan back in time, he would average about 60 points per game - not in just one year, but over 10 year period. Yes, I meant that too! He would dominate like no one has ever dominated.

theRealist · February 16, 2006 6:41AM

You are wrong. If Wilt played today, he would possibly be more dominant because he would know something that todays punk players lack: fundamentals.

All today's players know is how to dunk and shoot three-pointers.

coinkat · February 16, 2006 7:15AM

This has to be broken down alittle by decades... I would not want to compare Michael Jordan to Wilt Chamberlain or Bill Russell

theRealist · February 16, 2006 7:56AM

It's difficult to compare because yesteryear's players didn't have the advantages of today's knowledge of fitness and nutrition, etc.

If Wilt had these benefits today, he would just as dominant as Shaq.

stown · February 16, 2006 10:42AM

Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon

Keep in mind that he was 7 feet (was actually a shade over 6'9):

1) Best footwork of ANY big man and most of the league (see '95 playoff series against SA and MVP David Robinson)
2) Could consistantly hit a mid-range and fall-away jumper
3) Most blocks in recorded NBA history and rarely would a player take it to the hole on him
4) Could always pass the ball but for years was surrounded by sub-par shooters
5) Averaged a double-double for his career (22 pts / 11 rbs)

All things considered, he was the best, ever.

frankhardy · February 16, 2006 12:30PM

<< You are wrong. If Wilt played today, he would possibly be more dominant because he would know something that todays punk players lack: fundamentals.

All today's players know is how to dunk and shoot three-pointers. >>

Wilt Chamberlain had hardly any fundamentals. The man couldn't hit a free throw, hit an outside shot, or dribble. He was just bigger than everybody.

Olajuwon was good, but not Jordan good.

aro13 · February 16, 2006 12:37PM

Great players evolve with the game. Michael Jordan was great in 1985 and he was great in 2000. Kareem was great in 1970 and he could still play well in 1987. The game changes but the stars change as well.

As for Jordan he is clearly the popular choice. My only issue with Jordan is that the first time he retired, the Bulls went from winning 57 games with him, to winning 55 without him. It would seem to me that if you took the greatest player in history, in their prime, off a team he should make more than a 2 game difference. The year Bird sat out with injuries the Celtics dropped from 57 wins to 42 and they had McHale, Parish, and D.J on their roster.

mnmcoin · February 16, 2006 1:17PM

"Pistol" Pete Maravich gets my vote.

morris <><

dallasactuary · February 16, 2006 2:11PM

Who was better, Walter Johnson or Ted Williams?

There really is no way to know the answer to that question or to even know what "better" means in that context; and the same is true of Chamberlain and Jordan. They played different positions in different eras under a different set of rules.

But if I had to pick a single greatest player, I'd pick Magic.

Axtell · February 16, 2006 2:41PM

Hard not to go with Jordan with this one.

Aside from what's been mentioned (game-changer, phenomenal scorer), it gets lost how much better he made everyone on his team. He made everyone better, made them a true team in all facets of the game.

Would Scottie Pippen have ever evolved to the level he did? Who knows, but most say it's unlikely. What about Kerr, Kukoc, or anyone else from those teams?

puff · February 16, 2006 8:58PM

>>Best NBA Player Ever<<

Lew Alcindar A.K.A. Kareem Abdul Jabar.

frankhardy · February 16, 2006 9:20PM

<< Great players evolve with the game. Michael Jordan was great in 1985 and he was great in 2000. Kareem was great in 1970 and he could still play well in 1987. The game changes but the stars change as well.

As for Jordan he is clearly the popular choice. My only issue with Jordan is that the first time he retired, the Bulls went from winning 57 games with him, to winning 55 without him. It would seem to me that if you took the greatest player in history, in their prime, off a team he should make more than a 2 game difference. The year Bird sat out with injuries the Celtics dropped from 57 wins to 42 and they had McHale, Parish, and D.J on their roster. >>

I believe that was 67 games won, not 57.

frankhardy · February 16, 2006 9:22PM

<< Great players evolve with the game. Michael Jordan was great in 1985 and he was great in 2000. Kareem was great in 1970 and he could still play well in 1987. The game changes but the stars change as well.

As for Jordan he is clearly the popular choice. My only issue with Jordan is that the first time he retired, the Bulls went from winning 57 games with him, to winning 55 without him. It would seem to me that if you took the greatest player in history, in their prime, off a team he should make more than a 2 game difference. The year Bird sat out with injuries the Celtics dropped from 57 wins to 42 and they had McHale, Parish, and D.J on their roster. >>

I am pretty sure that was 67 wins, not 57.

aro13 · February 16, 2006 11:00PM

1993 Bulls 57 wins with Jordan
1994 Bulls 55 wins without Jordan

The 1992 Bulls won 67 games.

frankhardy · February 16, 2006 11:16PM

Oops! My bad!

Skinpinch · February 17, 2006 1:12AM

Again, many variables will determine how many wins a team has. Yeah, the Bulls won two less games after Jordan left, but that really doens't mean much in determining how good he was. A team with everything the exact same from one year to the next could easily win ten more games or lose ten more games without changing anything. Variables. Other player changes make a big difference, and the play of the players make a big difference too.

For the record though, the informatin needs to be accurate, if you are just judging it only on Jordan's presence!

1992 67 wins with Jordan
1993 57 wins with Jordan.....see they lost ten games from the previoius season with Jordan.

1994 55 wins NO Jordan
1995 47 wins NO Jordan......See how they got worse, and in the 17 games with Jordan's return their record was helped by plenty if I recall.

1996 72 wins with Jordan
1995 69 wins with Jordan

So simple math shows they averaged 66 wins a year in the surrounding years with Jordan, and only 51 in the two years he was gone(and that was helped a little by his 17 game presence in 1995), so realistically it would be about 48-49 games without Jordan.

So we are talking about a 17-18 game difference, and that is based on TWO and FOUR year spans, so it carries a little more validity than when a guy only has a one year absence.

Jordan was clearly the best offensive player in his prime, and was near the very top defensive players...can't get much better than that.

Cubfan · February 17, 2006 5:26AM

Wilt Chamberlain. A man amongst boys. Anyone who says he couldnt dribble or pass didnt see him play.

stown · February 17, 2006 6:15AM

I forgot to mention that Hakeem was always double teamed. Sometimes even triple and quadruple teamed yet still, nothing but net

aro13 · February 17, 2006 6:45AM

skinpinch - You do make a valid point about more years needing to be considered and it certainly is a point in Jordan's favour but it does not explain how a team without him in his prime could still win 55 games. In most cases I would agree with adding years, however, in this case the player was in his prime and there were only a minor amount of other factors. Also, basketball is not like baseball or football where a lot of players have a hand in each play. There are only 5 players on the court so using the easiest of matches each player is responsible for 20% of the result. Given many stars play 40+ minutes per game 20% is not a great stretch (personally I think that number is a lot higher).

Other players results when they missed a season in there prime:
Bird - Celtics 15 win difference
Magic - Lakers 15 win difference
Robinson - Spurs 39 win difference and enabled them to get Tim Duncan

Anyway, it is a small point against Jordan. I do think what the 55 win season does help show is that Scottie Pippen was a great great player. There are many that felt during the Bulls run that Jordan was the best player in the league and Pippen was second. Pippen was a better rebounder than Jordan, averaged more assists and was close to Jordan in steals and blocks. Although Jordan was probably the best wing defender of his era Pippen was also superb and quite often took the top scorer or threat on the other team, enabling Jordan to do more roaming. I believe it was Pippen who took Magic during the first finals. Had Pippen not pulled himelf from a play-off game the year Jordan was not there, I believe his reputation would be totally different.

JoeBanzai · February 17, 2006 7:29AM

Athletically Jordan, but Wilt was the most dominating player at both ends of the court, and he was very athletic too. He responded to the accusation of being a selfish player by leading the league in assists one year. He WAS NOT the only big man of his time. He was a man among boys, if you saw him play, you would know. He was a bad free throw shooter for most of his career.

JoeBanzai

Skinpinch · February 17, 2006 8:47AM

Aro, the point is, the exact same team from one year to the next could be plus of minus 10 games either way, without any changes! Just because it so happened when Jordan left they played above their head, doesn't mean he was only worth two wins. The next two years showed a little more. The following year he was gone, they dropped another ten games(would have been more if he hadn't come back for 17 games), then the next year they set the NBA record of 72 wins with him.

So you are only looking at "Welll when Jordan retired they only won two less games." But...you are ignoring the fact that a Jordanless Bulls team won 47 games, and the following year with Jordan, THEY WON 72 GAMES!! Well by my count, they improved 25 games WITH JORDAN, as opposed to without him!!!

If one is hellbent on saying "Well the Bulls won only two less games when Jordan retired," then they sure as heck be just as hellbent as saying...."The Bulls won 47 games one year, then Michael Jordan came back, AND THEY WON AN NBA RECORD 72 GAMES!!"

frankhardy · February 17, 2006 9:08AM

Y'all are making my point. "A man among boys." That's pretty much who he played against. He was so much bigger than everyone else. If you put him in today's game, he is average.

coinkat · February 17, 2006 9:19AM

I maintain players from various times are impossible to compare... but I must say this about Michael Jordan... he made it look so easy... and I do not recall seeing anyone that was in the air as long as him... he was (and probably still is) and great athlete... but I am not willing to compare him to Wilt or anyone who had a career that matured prior to 1970. It is not a fair comparison because the game changed... Jordan helped change the game (as did others...)

Gator5220 · February 17, 2006 11:22PM

Jordan was great, no doubt, but he also received very preferential treatment from the officials as well throughout his career. He got away with travelling, push-offs, palming, carrying, etc., a ridiculous amount of times.

I'm not hating on him, because he was one of the greatest ever. But there was a different standard for him.

jaxxr · February 18, 2006 3:48AM

As Wilt himself once said " It's hard to root for Goliath "

But he was probably the most dominant palyer EVER in ANY sport. The rules were changed because of him. Ther were other fine big men when he played, Bill Russell, Ray Felix, and others quite large. In his 100 point game he got 28 of 32 free throws , not too bad. His scoring and rebounding are unquestionable, the BEST. He led the NBA in assists at least one season.

A pro game is 48 minutes long, Wilt has the minutes per game season record, something like 49.5...??? ..how...? He played every second of every game and every minute of every overtime game, never fouled out, an ironman of super-human ability.

In his rookie season, his first in the NBA, he set the ALL-TIME single season scoring record ( which of course he himself broke several times) not just led the league, which some great rookie players in baseball or football have done also. An all time record as a rookie, such dominance will never be seen again.

frankhardy · February 18, 2006 7:48AM

AGAIN, let me say.... Chamberlain towered over everybody else. He dominated because everyone else was inferior (physically and skill wise), not because he was so great. Sure, in comparison to those players, he was everything everybody says. A person with one eye and half sense understands that if you put Chamberlain in today's game with today's players, he would be average. On the other hand, transport Jordan or many of today's players back to then, and they dominate even more than Chamberlain.

All Chamberlain did was stand under the basket, his teamates would lob the ball up to him, and he would turn around and dunk it or drop it in. Whoopee! Wow, that takes some great skill.

GOODLIEU · February 18, 2006 10:00AM

Would Mickey Mantle,Jim Brown or Gordie Howe be just another "Good" player in today's game in their respective sports? I think any discussion of "Best Ever" really disintegrates when you start getting into different eras. I think that Basketball like other sports should be broken down more by position Guard/Forward/Center than era's so I would go with Jordan/Chamberlain/Bird. Just my humble opinion.

RANDYMOSS84 · February 18, 2006 1:26PM

<< Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon

Keep in mind that he was 7 feet (was actually a shade over 6'9):

1) Best footwork of ANY big man and most of the league (see '95 playoff series against SA and MVP David Robinson)
2) Could consistantly hit a mid-range and fall-away jumper
3) Most blocks in recorded NBA history and rarely would a player take it to the hole on him
4) Could always pass the ball but for years was surrounded by sub-par shooters
5) Averaged a double-double for his career (22 pts / 11 rbs)

All things considered, he was the best, ever. >>

Your joking right.

Id put these players ahead:

Michael, Wilt, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Pete Marvich, SHAQ(as much as i hate him), oscar robertson

Griffins · February 18, 2006 2:48PM

I started watching basketball in '72, so I missed Wilt in his prime but rememeber, when he was averaging 50 points a game his team wasn't winning championships.
The best player I've seen was Magic, hands down. Kareem was great, and dominating. Jordan was great, and could carry a team. But Magic was the best- you didn't take your eyes off him for a moment, because he could do something incredible on the most basic play, and totally change the tempo of the game. Kareem hurt in a playoff? Magic steps up.HOFers on either side of him? Magic makes them better.
I just hope I get to see another player like him one day.

KalineFan · February 21, 2006 12:58PM

OK....maybe not the greatest, but.....I have not seen this name even mentioned!

How about the good "DOCTOR"???? For crying out loud folks, if it wasn't for Dr. J,
there very well could have been a totally different league.......!

Many credit Byrd and Magic with saving the NBA in the 80's and I would have to
agree with that....however, without Julius Erving, you would not see any of the
high flying acts that you are seeing now......He totally dominated the NBA when
even Wilt and Kareem (Or Lew) were supposedly the best around....think about
it.....and with that I bid you all a good evening.....REALLY GREAT to read these!

Tony
KalineFan

daneyb · February 21, 2006 9:57PM

I think you have to give the title to Jordan. His records and numbers are amazing. However Jordan would not have won as much and would not have as many titles without Pippen. Pippen was the greatest asset to Jordan. Jordan still would be the greatest but he would not have the same records. Pippen is the greatest most underated player in the 90's, yes he was a 50 greatest player but people have never givin him his due. I think Pippen needed Jordan just as much as Jordan needed Pippen. In my eyes they are the greatest one-two punch in the history of the sport and are probally in the top 3 of all sports.

And yes Pippen is my favorite player.. lolol

frankhardy · February 21, 2006 11:13PM

AH HAH! A thread idea!

DirtyHarry · February 22, 2006 12:55PM

Jordan is the icon all reference in "todays" game. Unreal competitor with atheletic skills second to none. Served as a leader for his highly talented teams with a talented coach. Never played for another team outside of his influence.

For my money, I will take Oscar Robinson any day of the week. When it was not in fashion, he averaged a triple double for an entire season. Didn't try.....just happened. I will also take Bill Russell above Jordan...how can you argue with success? Jordan's accompishments versus Russell's are weak. Regards.

frankhardy · February 22, 2006 8:55PM

Russell was a great winner. The only thing with that is - he had about 8 or 9 Hall of Famers on his teams! That's why he won so much. I guess Bob Cousey is the second best player ever, because he has won the second most championships ever (I think). That logic does not go over with me, even though it is a very popular opinion.

Oscar Robertson was great, but he couldn't dribble with his left hand. Today's defenses would have eaten him alive (pardon the expression!)

In my humble opinion, you have to take it all into account - winning, skill level, dominance versus competition, stats, and even hypothetical comparisons to other eras, which I believe is very important, even though none of it can be proved. Even though it can't be proved, I still think anybody with any knowledge of basketball can look at Bob Cousey and say that he would not make it in today's game, and they can look at Jordan, Kobe, and Lebron and say that they would absolutely dominate back in the 50's and 60's. With that criteria in mind, I believe Michael Jordan to be the best ever. He won, and wn alot, he skills were second to none, he had the stats, and if you hypothetically place him in other eras, he would dominate.

mattconroy · February 22, 2006 10:15PM

Another vote for Magic from me. He's the player I have most enjoyed watching and was a true team player. Since the end of that Lakers-Celts rivalry, I've become less and less interested in the NBA.

Knuckles · February 23, 2006 2:11AM

MJ

stown · February 23, 2006 2:19AM

<< 

<< Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon

Keep in mind that he was 7 feet (was actually a shade over 6'9):

1) Best footwork of ANY big man and most of the league (see '95 playoff series against SA and MVP David Robinson)
2) Could consistantly hit a mid-range and fall-away jumper
3) Most blocks in recorded NBA history and rarely would a player take it to the hole on him
4) Could always pass the ball but for years was surrounded by sub-par shooters
5) Averaged a double-double for his career (22 pts / 11 rbs)

All things considered, he was the best, ever. >>

Your joking right.

Id put these players ahead:

Michael, Wilt, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, Pete Marvich, SHAQ(as much as i hate him), oscar robertson >>

No I'm not joking but you obviously are by saying Shaq is better than Dream was.

Ha! You're funny.

koby · February 27, 2006 8:01AM

For now Michael Jordan and maybe Bill Russell.

When it is all said and done, probably Kobe Bryant will eclipse Jordan's accomplishments. People forget that he is still so young and already has three championship rings. A lot will depend on the supporting cast in the coming years.

Hard to make arguments for Wade or James since neither have won championships at any level yet.

Best NBA Player Ever

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