Tim: I have read the provisions. But, I also direct you to the binding language for submissions on the PCGS submission form. All sorts of language there, including:
"Customer agrees to return any incorrectly described coin to PCGS upon request for correction and agrees to indemnify and hold PCGS harmless from any and losses and/or claims caused by the circulation or sale of incorrectly described coin..."
Bottom line - we may not reach the same conclusion on this one - but, reasonable men may differ.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Grading service should pay.....if it was so friggin' obvious THEY should have caught it with QUALITY CONTROL before it got out the door. Final check on a coin that is graded should be having someone enter the #, see what comes up, and also to have half a brain.
They get paid for their opinions and slabbing (if slabbable). When slabbed, they are also paid for the insert and being correct.
They have an obligation and "obvious" mechanical errors should not get out their door. If they do, they should pay. Call it "self-insured"
<< <i>Tim: I have read the provisions. But, I also direct you to the binding language for submissions on the PCGS submission form. All sorts of language there, including: >>
<< <i>"Customer agrees to return any incorrectly described coin to PCGS upon request for correction and agrees to indemnify and hold PCGS harmless from any and losses and/or claims caused by the circulation or sale of incorrectly described coin..." >>
Dear Wondercoin,
Let's talk about "apples to apples" and not "apples to oranges". The binding language on PCGS's submission form applies to the submitter, not necessarily who ended up with the coin. Your hypothetical case had the following facts:
<< <i>2. Submittor (a collector) choses to sell off coin rather than simply send it back to grading service to fix. Collector puts it up for auction with $1,000 buy it now (coin is worth around $50 tops as an SMS Cameo) >>
<< <i>3. Collector hits the buy it now and buys coin. >>
<< <i>4. Collector realizes months later he made a big mistake buying the (mechanical error) coin (when numerous collectors and/or dealers email him concerning the "bogus" coin entered in his set). Collector wants full $1,000 reimbursement from grading service as the coin left their building this way and collector's position is grading service should pay. >>
This hypothetical case involves a collector who bought the coin on a secondary market (eBay or other auction site) not the submitter of the coin to PCGS. It is my understanding that the PCGS guarantee is for the holder ( as long as it has not been tampered with), that the coin inside will accurately match up with the label inside. It is also my understanding that this guarantee stays with the holder (no matter who owns it) and it is so the coin could be bought / sold sight unseen.
Like I have stated before, if I find myself in possession of a PCGS holder that the label doesn't match up with the coin inside, I would try and return the coin from who I bought it from. If the previous owner would not take the coin back, I would expect PCGS to make me whole.
Let me state another hypothetical case: 1. I bought a 1966 Kennedy graded MS- 66 by PCGS from you (Wondercoin) for $250. 2. Six months later, I happen to go to a coin show and a few dealers look at the coin and tell me that it is a SMS (SMS is not on the label). 3. I go over to the PCGS booth, and they comfirm that it is a SMS. 4. After I get home, I contact you (Wondercoin) about the discrepancy, and you tell me that you would like to help but your company has a policy on returns must be before 15 days.
Are you telling me that I am stuck with the coin, (a $25 coin in a $250 holder) and that PCGS has no liability here? What is PCGS guaranteeing anyhow? I would really like to hear from someone at PCGS on this, and let them explain what their guarantee is.
"I would really like to hear from someone at PCGS on this, and let them explain what their guarantee is."
Tim: My hypothetical did not even involve PCGS, but rather a grading service. If you do want some clarification on the guarantee, why not call someone at PCGS and just ask about it? But, we surely can't expect PCGS to join each and every hypothetical thread presented on these boards (although I would welcome them, just as you would)
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Tim did the right thing and took it to HRH in the Q&A forum. I believe that HRH gave a good answer as well........he seems to be defining "mechanical error" as something that is very obvious (ie....a 1857 FE in a slab with 1856 FE on the holder....much like the Morgan "Trade" dollar that was shown). No compensation there.
However, a CAM kennedy that should be SMS labelled looks to NOT be considered a "mechanical error".
I would fully agree with the way this appears to be being done (ie.....what is compensatable versus "mechanical error")
How then, does this effect one of the prime features trusted and admired by collectors? The ability to buy, "sight unseen", coins under the PCGS name?
And no, I am not bashing PCGS, so don't go there. I simply want to know how the sight unseen thing can work, if there is no rectitude with the seller. Most of the coins I buy ARE sight unseen, except for some that have pictures. And lets face it, you've all seen some of the pictures on ebay. I admit most of the unseen coins have come from forum members. Datentype, bushmaster, wondercoin, onlyroosies, just to name a few. Thank god they are all upstanding dudes, that have never disappointed me, or misrepresented any of the coins bought by me. As for other coins purchased unseen, I now feel I have been walking through a minefield with a big-a$$ magnet strapped to each leg.
Tim: Good job on the Q&A,. While I would have enjoyed reading a comment on the hypothetical issue of CAMEO on a regular issue Kennedy resulting in wildly high selling price, you did get an overall general answer to the EXCEPTION for mechanical errors.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>How then, does this effect one of the prime features trusted and admired by collectors? The ability to buy, "sight unseen", coins under the PCGS name? >>
That's really the heart of the matter and negates the argument that "it should have been obvious". PCGS was founded to create a site-unseen market. How can anything be "obvious" about a coin that is not seen?
Oh, and how about we cut through the crap. We all know that there's nothing "hypothetical" about this scenario. It's a real coin sitting in a real registry set that PCGS has long known about and never corrected in the database.
I agree with Russ, sight unseen is the issue, especially where the description isn't absurd. Plus for SMS issues--- unless someone knows die states for 1965-7 and has great eyes, it isn't always easy to tell SMS from a top lusterous Business Strike online. Am I supposed to tell a 1965 SMS 66 from a super MS 67 business strike Washington Quarter? I bet even Wondercoin might bid over $500 sight unseen (image online) for a PCGS MS 67? 1965 bus. strike Washington $.25!.
"The grading guarantee doesn't cover obvious clerical (mechanical) errors. So for example, if the coin was an 1857 Flying Eagle, but the holfer said 1856, that's an obvious mechanical error. Our grading guarantee doesn't cover that and in fact we feel anyone that would sell an obviously dated 1857 Flying Eagle as an 1856 Flying Eagle is committing fraud."
So in the cases where coins are bought sight unseen (or at least if BOTH the slab insert AND the coin are not shown) from a dealer with a no return policy you'd better be REAL careful. Even when both ARE shown but it is a variety hard to see in the pics the same would apply.
Of course, I personally think that if a rational and reasonable set of circumstances were presented to PCGS they'd do the right thing 110% of the time.
I say that the TPG should pay no matter what. I suggest that perhaps they ought to hire an extra fact checker, before letting the coins out the door. I am a canadian collector who occasionally buys high grade "foreign" coins like US Buffalo nickels. I don't know a ton about them before I buy them, since I usually buy a nice coin at a show. I determine the value based on the slab, eye appeal and a coin publication's value guide. I rely heavily on the slab for the foreign coins. (whereas I am reasonably competent in my main collecting field) If I had bought the coin in question, I would never know about the error until years later. So, bottom line - no matter how the error occured, the TPG should be responsibe. And a reasonable first start would be to stop the hemorrhaging of misattributed coins by having an extra layer of fact checking.
I had a chance to speak with the collector who owns the business strike Cameo (mechaincal error) Kennedy Half Dollar appearing in numerous registry sets. He is sending me his coin to present to PCGS to remove from the pop report provided, of course, he receives fair compensation. I am happy to help out.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The grading company is getting paid to do a job and to do the job correctly. That includes grading the coin correctly, labeling the coin correctly, sealing the coin in a holder with the correct coin, correct label and hopefully not damaging the coin. I think that a lot of people depend on the grading services rather than their own grading abilities, after all they are the paid professionals who make their living in this profession. Would you expect a type collector to know everything about every series, date, mint mark, possible designations, varieties, etc... If the grading services makes a mistake that ends up harming someone else or causes them a financial loss then they should be held responsible. If I purchased ammunition for a rifle and the ammunition was labeled wrong and it exploded and harmed someone, you better believe that the company mislabeling the ammunition would lose in a liability case. If you are a professional, act accordingly and take responsibility for your errors. Isn't that why physicians have medical malpractice policies, for the liability they may incur due to a mistake. The title PCGS, PROFESSIONAL COIN GRADING SERVICE, says it all. Be professional, be responsible and assume the liability for your errors. If not, reduce the fees and put a warning label on every holder that this may or may not be the correct coin as designated on the holder, buyer beware.
"Isn't that why physicians have medical malpractice policies, for the liability they may incur due to a mistake."
But, a doctor is generally not liable for an intervening criminal act that leads to harm to a patient. For example, if a criminal snuck into the doctor's office and laced a medication with poison - would the doctor be liable for a patient taking the drug? Maybe, maybe not. Likewise, if a person with criminal intent to commit FRAUD sells a mechanical error to an unsuspecting buyer instead or returning the coin for simple correction, I am not certain (IMHO) the grading service should or would be on the hook.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Of course your points are very well taken but what about the grey area where "obvious" is a subjective call and more importantly, what about where an unsuspecting buyer buys a coin sight unseen in a venue that doesn't offer a return policy (e.g. from a Heritage signature sale - yes I know, they'd do the "right thing" as well)?
As I've already stated, I personally have NO DOUBT that PCGS would do the "right thing", I just think a little less subjectivity & a little more concreteness in the actual verbage of the guarantee would be in PCGS's (AND it's stockholders) best interest.
I mean, they have lawyers, why not draft a well defined document that states just what exactly the guarantee is & is not. I still to this day do not know where I can even find it.
<< <i>I mean, they have lawyers, why not draft a well defined document that states just what exactly the guarantee is & is not. I still to this day do not know where I can even find it. >>
That was the main point of the question I asked Mr. Hall on the Q & A Forum:
<< <i>I would like to get your opinion, so to say "from the horses mouth" about the gaurantee of PCGS. Would you please state what the PCGS Gaurantee is? And commit on the following hypothetical scenerio: >>
I don't believe Mr. Hall answered what his opinion was to the gaurantee of PCGS and he did not define the gaurantee.
On a personal note, I have been lucky over the years thinking that the gaurantee would cover a sight unseen transaction and I have not been burnt. But in the future, I will think twice about making purchaces sight unseen until the gaurantee is spelled out or a return policy is in place with whom I'm buying from.
I think it would be in PCGS's interest to actually spell out the gauantee for the people making submission. I also think "we" collectors need not to assume that the gauantee is there (or maybe it never was there). Remember what they say when you assume something, "it makes an *** out of * and **". The words for the day is "Buyer Beware".
<< <i>"Isn't that why physicians have medical malpractice policies, for the liability they may incur due to a mistake."
But, a doctor is generally not liable for an intervening criminal act that leads to harm to a patient. For example, if a criminal snuck into the doctor's office and laced a medication with poison - would the doctor be liable for a patient taking the drug? Maybe, maybe not. Likewise, if a person with criminal intent to commit FRAUD sells a mechanical error to an unsuspecting buyer instead or returning the coin for simple correction, I am not certain (IMHO) the grading service should or would be on the hook.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
I wasn't aware of any allegation of someone tampering with the PCGS product. If someone tampered with the holder, then PCGS is clearly not liable.
For "mechanical" errors...PCGS should do a better job of catching them in-house, so that there is no possibility of anyone having the opportunity to misrepresent them.
With regards to the doctor scenario outlined above, if the doctor made a "mechanical error" and wrote a prescription (for a pregnant woman with nausea) for Dilantin instead of Diclectin, and caused harm to her unborn child - the doctor would pay for the error. Even though the error involved only a few letters.
Docday: Fair points. But, the allegation was not tampering here. My point is assuming the fraud of failing to return an obvious error slab and selling it for a huge profit was determined to be "criminal" conduct as well as civil fraud under a certain state's criminal code - both the criminal act of such fraud and the criminal act of tampering with the medicine in my hypo. would be intervening criminal acts. I really do not know if defrauding someone out of their money by peddling mislabeled coins is criminal conduct as well as civil? Note also that the act of writing the prescription alone led to the consumer's downfall in your hypo. But, in my hypo, the act of mislabeling the coin did not create any damage to the third party per se WITHOUT the intervening fraud of the party getting the coin and knowingly selling it off for an outrageous price instead of complying with the express terms of the submission of the coin.
In any event, I totally agree with RB and Tim - the grading companies should SPELL OUT what the guarantee covers and doesn't cover. Think about it - what if one grading company guaranteee was far more beneficial and protective to collectors than another company's guarantee. Collectors could make an informed decision to throw their business to the company that stands behind its product the strongest.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>In any event, I totally agree with RB and Tim - the grading companies should SPELL OUT what the guarantee covers and doesn't cover. Think about it - what if one grading company guaranteee was far more beneficial and protective to collectors than another company's guarantee. Collectors could make an informed decision to throw their business to the company that stands behind its product the strongest. >>
Wondercoin, thank you! That is the best way I've heard it put. If PCGS wants to stay the best, have customer loyalty and not have our business go elsewhere then they should SPELL OUT what their guarantee covers and doesn't cover. Let us make an informed decision. Again, being from / in a rural area, that sight unseen guarantee that was eluded to from PCGS meant alot when dealing with a new business by mail or internet for the first few times (until a history was established).
Tim
EDITED TO ADD: I believe most dealers / sellers liked the comfort level a new customer had with the sight unseen myth of PCGS while the business history was being established between both parties. (to bad it wasn't totally real.)
In the interim will the owner be removing the bogus coin from their set since it currently places them above set owners who built theirs with legitimate coins?
The TPG should pay or is the guarantee simply hype. I thought the whole point of TPG was that they certify that the coin is what they say it is. They make a mistake they should pay or they should close up shop.
The buyer should be better informed, however, FRAUD IS FRAUD ! The seller should make good the buyers loss. Futhermore if the dealer was a member of PNG the buyer would not suffer this loss. Lastly, human nature is to blame everyone else for our shortcomings Flip Wilson used to say " The devil made me do it ", or people now want to sue Mc donalds because the ate too many Big Macs. This case is somewhat different, and as I said in my opening statement : FRAUD IS FRAUD !!
"The buyer should be better informed, however, FRAUD IS FRAUD ! The seller should make good the buyers loss. Futhermore if the dealer was a member of PNG the buyer would not suffer this loss. Lastly, human nature is to blame everyone else for our shortcomings Flip Wilson used to say " The devil made me do it ", or people now want to sue Mc donalds because the ate too many Big Macs.This case is somewhat different, and as I said in my opening statement : FRAUD IS FRAUD !!"
Coindog: While your points are very well taken (and I agree with you), today, David Hall/PCGS, once again, did the "right thing" and gave me the go ahead to send off a check to the collector for 100% of his ebay purchase price he paid to whomever the seller may have been on the MS67CAM Kennedy and to send him back the coin as well for good measure (which I will do as soon as I get it back from PCGS). Well done PCGS!!!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The TPGS should pay. It's their job to get things right. It shouldnt matter if it's a mechanical error or an error in the grading. They get paid for the opinion they put on the holder. If they mess it up, they should pony up the dough to make it right.
Comments
"Customer agrees to return any incorrectly described coin to PCGS upon request for correction and agrees to indemnify and hold PCGS harmless from any and losses and/or claims caused by the circulation or sale of incorrectly described coin..."
Bottom line - we may not reach the same conclusion on this one - but, reasonable men may differ.
Wondercoin
Final check on a coin that is graded should be having someone enter the #, see what comes up, and also to have half a brain.
They get paid for their opinions and slabbing (if slabbable).
When slabbed, they are also paid for the insert and being correct.
They have an obligation and "obvious" mechanical errors should not get out their door. If they do, they should pay. Call it "self-insured"
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Tim: I have read the provisions. But, I also direct you to the binding language for submissions on the PCGS submission form. All sorts of language there, including: >>
<< <i>"Customer agrees to return any incorrectly described coin to PCGS upon request for correction and agrees to indemnify and hold PCGS harmless from any and losses and/or claims caused by the circulation or sale of incorrectly described coin..." >>
Dear Wondercoin,
Let's talk about "apples to apples" and not "apples to oranges". The binding language on PCGS's submission form applies to the submitter, not necessarily who ended up with the coin. Your hypothetical case had the following facts:
<< <i>2. Submittor (a collector) choses to sell off coin rather than simply send it back to grading service to fix. Collector puts it up for auction with $1,000 buy it now (coin is worth around $50 tops as an SMS Cameo) >>
<< <i>3. Collector hits the buy it now and buys coin. >>
<< <i>4. Collector realizes months later he made a big mistake buying the (mechanical error) coin (when numerous collectors and/or dealers email him concerning the "bogus" coin entered in his set). Collector wants full $1,000 reimbursement from grading service as the coin left their building this way and collector's position is grading service should pay. >>
This hypothetical case involves a collector who bought the coin on a secondary market (eBay or other auction site) not the submitter of the coin to PCGS. It is my understanding that the PCGS guarantee is for the holder ( as long as it has not been tampered with), that the coin inside will accurately match up with the label inside. It is also my understanding that this guarantee stays with the holder (no matter who owns it) and it is so the coin could be bought / sold sight unseen.
Like I have stated before, if I find myself in possession of a PCGS holder that the label doesn't match up with the coin inside, I would try and return the coin from who I bought it from. If the previous owner would not take the coin back, I would expect PCGS to make me whole.
Let me state another hypothetical case:
1. I bought a 1966 Kennedy graded MS- 66 by PCGS from you (Wondercoin) for $250.
2. Six months later, I happen to go to a coin show and a few dealers look at the coin and tell me that it is a SMS (SMS is not on the label).
3. I go over to the PCGS booth, and they comfirm that it is a SMS.
4. After I get home, I contact you (Wondercoin) about the discrepancy, and you tell me that you would like to help but your company has a policy on returns must be before 15 days.
Are you telling me that I am stuck with the coin, (a $25 coin in a $250 holder) and that PCGS has no liability here? What is PCGS guaranteeing anyhow? I would really like to hear from someone at PCGS on this, and let them explain what their guarantee is.
Sincerely,
Tim
Tim: My hypothetical did not even involve PCGS, but rather a grading service. If you do want some clarification on the guarantee, why not call someone at PCGS and just ask about it? But, we surely can't expect PCGS to join each and every hypothetical thread presented on these boards (although I would welcome them, just as you would)
Wondercoin
I believe that HRH gave a good answer as well........he seems to be defining "mechanical error" as something that is very obvious (ie....a 1857 FE in a slab with 1856 FE on the holder....much like the Morgan "Trade" dollar that was shown). No compensation there.
However, a CAM kennedy that should be SMS labelled looks to NOT be considered a "mechanical error".
I would fully agree with the way this appears to be being done (ie.....what is compensatable versus "mechanical error")
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The ability to buy, "sight unseen", coins under the PCGS name?
And no, I am not bashing PCGS, so don't go there. I simply want to know how the sight unseen thing can work, if there is no rectitude with the seller.
Most of the coins I buy ARE sight unseen, except for some that have pictures. And lets face it, you've all seen some of the pictures on ebay.
I admit most of the unseen coins have come from forum members. Datentype, bushmaster, wondercoin, onlyroosies, just to name a few. Thank god they are all upstanding dudes, that have never disappointed me, or misrepresented any of the coins bought by me.
As for other coins purchased unseen, I now feel I have been walking through a minefield with a big-a$$ magnet strapped to each leg.
edited for my always present horrid typing.
Wondercoin
<< <i>How then, does this effect one of the prime features trusted and admired by collectors?
The ability to buy, "sight unseen", coins under the PCGS name? >>
That's really the heart of the matter and negates the argument that "it should have been obvious". PCGS was founded to create a site-unseen market. How can anything be "obvious" about a coin that is not seen?
Oh, and how about we cut through the crap. We all know that there's nothing "hypothetical" about this scenario. It's a real coin sitting in a real registry set that PCGS has long known about and never corrected in the database.
Russ, NCNE
So in the cases where coins are bought sight unseen (or at least if BOTH the slab insert AND the coin are not shown) from a dealer with a no return policy you'd better be REAL careful. Even when both ARE shown but it is a variety hard to see in the pics the same would apply.
Of course, I personally think that if a rational and reasonable set of circumstances were presented to PCGS they'd do the right thing 110% of the time.
Wondercoin
If the grading services makes a mistake that ends up harming someone else or causes them a financial loss then they should be held responsible. If I purchased ammunition for a rifle and the ammunition was labeled wrong and it exploded and harmed someone, you better believe that the company mislabeling the ammunition would lose in a liability case. If you are a professional, act accordingly and take responsibility for your errors. Isn't that why physicians have medical malpractice policies, for the liability they may incur due to a mistake. The title PCGS, PROFESSIONAL COIN GRADING SERVICE, says it all. Be professional, be responsible and assume the liability for your errors. If not, reduce the fees and put a warning label on every holder that this may or may not be the correct coin as designated on the holder, buyer beware.
But, a doctor is generally not liable for an intervening criminal act that leads to harm to a patient. For example, if a criminal snuck into the doctor's office and laced a medication with poison - would the doctor be liable for a patient taking the drug? Maybe, maybe not. Likewise, if a person with criminal intent to commit FRAUD sells a mechanical error to an unsuspecting buyer instead or returning the coin for simple correction, I am not certain (IMHO) the grading service should or would be on the hook.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Of course your points are very well taken but what about the grey area where "obvious" is a subjective call and more importantly, what about where an unsuspecting buyer buys a coin sight unseen in a venue that doesn't offer a return policy (e.g. from a Heritage signature sale - yes I know, they'd do the "right thing" as well)?
As I've already stated, I personally have NO DOUBT that PCGS would do the "right thing", I just think a little less subjectivity & a little more concreteness in the actual verbage of the guarantee would be in PCGS's (AND it's stockholders) best interest.
I mean, they have lawyers, why not draft a well defined document that states just what exactly the guarantee is & is not. I still to this day do not know where I can even find it.
You ask,
<< <i>I mean, they have lawyers, why not draft a well defined document that states just what exactly the guarantee is & is not. I still to this day do not know where I can even find it. >>
That was the main point of the question I asked Mr. Hall on the Q & A Forum:
<< <i>I would like to get your opinion, so to say "from the horses mouth" about the gaurantee of PCGS. Would you please state what the PCGS Gaurantee is? And commit on the following hypothetical scenerio: >>
I don't believe Mr. Hall answered what his opinion was to the gaurantee of PCGS and he did not define the gaurantee.
On a personal note, I have been lucky over the years thinking that the gaurantee would cover a sight unseen transaction and I have not been burnt. But in the future, I will think twice about making purchaces sight unseen until the gaurantee is spelled out or a return policy is in place with whom I'm buying from.
I think it would be in PCGS's interest to actually spell out the gauantee for the people making submission. I also think "we" collectors need not to assume that the gauantee is there (or maybe it never was there). Remember what they say when you assume something, "it makes an *** out of * and **". The words for the day is "Buyer Beware".
Tim
<< <i>"Isn't that why physicians have medical malpractice policies, for the liability they may incur due to a mistake."
But, a doctor is generally not liable for an intervening criminal act that leads to harm to a patient. For example, if a criminal snuck into the doctor's office and laced a medication with poison - would the doctor be liable for a patient taking the drug? Maybe, maybe not. Likewise, if a person with criminal intent to commit FRAUD sells a mechanical error to an unsuspecting buyer instead or returning the coin for simple correction, I am not certain (IMHO) the grading service should or would be on the hook.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin >>
I wasn't aware of any allegation of someone tampering with the PCGS product. If someone tampered with the holder, then PCGS is clearly not liable.
For "mechanical" errors...PCGS should do a better job of catching them in-house, so that there is no possibility of anyone having the opportunity to misrepresent them.
With regards to the doctor scenario outlined above, if the doctor made a "mechanical error" and wrote a prescription (for a pregnant woman with nausea) for Dilantin instead of Diclectin, and caused harm to her unborn child - the doctor would pay for the error. Even though the error involved only a few letters.
In any event, I totally agree with RB and Tim - the grading companies should SPELL OUT what the guarantee covers and doesn't cover. Think about it - what if one grading company guaranteee was far more beneficial and protective to collectors than another company's guarantee. Collectors could make an informed decision to throw their business to the company that stands behind its product the strongest.
Wondercoin
<< <i>In any event, I totally agree with RB and Tim - the grading companies should SPELL OUT what the guarantee covers and doesn't cover. Think about it - what if one grading company guaranteee was far more beneficial and protective to collectors than another company's guarantee. Collectors could make an informed decision to throw their business to the company that stands behind its product the strongest. >>
Wondercoin, thank you! That is the best way I've heard it put. If PCGS wants to stay the best, have customer loyalty and not have our business go elsewhere then they should SPELL OUT what their guarantee covers and doesn't cover. Let us make an informed decision. Again, being from / in a rural area, that sight unseen guarantee that was eluded to from PCGS meant alot when dealing with a new business by mail or internet for the first few times (until a history was established).
Tim
EDITED TO ADD: I believe most dealers / sellers liked the comfort level a new customer had with the sight unseen myth of PCGS while the business history was being established between both parties. (to bad it wasn't totally real.)
When I bring the problem Kennedy over to DH next week - I will discuss this issue.
Wondercoin
Russ, NCNE
Russ, NCNE
i have NEVER bought a coin sight unseen , and i think it's safe to say few
.... if ANY collectors buy in such a way
The seller should make good the buyers loss.
Futhermore if the dealer was a member of PNG the buyer would not suffer this loss.
Lastly, human nature is to blame everyone else for our shortcomings
Flip Wilson used to say " The devil made me do it ", or people now want to sue Mc donalds because the ate too many Big Macs.
This case is somewhat different, and as I said in my opening statement : FRAUD IS FRAUD !!
The seller should make good the buyers loss.
Futhermore if the dealer was a member of PNG the buyer would not suffer this loss. Lastly, human nature is to blame everyone else for our shortcomings Flip Wilson used to say " The devil made me do it ", or people now want to sue Mc donalds because the ate too many Big Macs.This case is somewhat different, and as I said in my opening statement : FRAUD IS FRAUD !!"
Coindog: While your points are very well taken (and I agree with you), today, David Hall/PCGS, once again, did the "right thing" and gave me the go ahead to send off a check to the collector for 100% of his ebay purchase price he paid to whomever the seller may have been on the MS67CAM Kennedy and to send him back the coin as well for good measure (which I will do as soon as I get it back from PCGS). Well done PCGS!!!
Wondercoin
David