Heritage Auction *%$#%^$@

cmanbb

Won 1 out of 13 coins...............................
Lost 8 of the 13 by one bid

darktone

the ones you lost by one bid probably had a reserve.

PerryHall

How can you be sure you lost them by one bid? They may have been prepared to go much higher if necessary.

Keyrock

I remember a comment in Coin world by Bowers (I believe it was him) stating that you should plan on winning 1 out of every 10 assuming you put the right bid in. Getting caught up in the hype or paying to much can cause buyers remorse. You probably did ok.

During the post auction analysis, I usually look at my bids and think a few of the bids I might have bid a little lower than I should have just so I could pull that money towards another bid on another coin. The coins I usually really want I will pay strong $$ for and other bids are low, but if I win it at that price, I'm happy.

fc

i was watching the lots close "live" on their website.
the bids that were currently in, right before going on the floor for bids,
were beaten 95% of the time or it did not sell.

interesting that. the ones that did appear to win, went at some
odd dollar amount.. almost like their max bid was used due to no
one on the floor bidding.

badger

Sometimes that odd amount is due to a cut bid. The cut bid goes half an increment but doesn't allow a follow-on bid. I've seen people at the auction use the technique to try to get the coin at lowest possible cost.

Badger

NeoNumismaniac

Since Nov, I've won 7 out of 15 all at prices I'm quite happy with! Hope I can keep the streak going. Then again...the 8 I lost were also really nice coins (IMO). In retrospect, I could have (should have) bid higher on some of them.

Neo...

Russ

<< <i>I remember a comment in Coin world by Bowers (I believe it was him) stating that you should plan on winning 1 out of every 10 >>



This makes sense. In fact, I think that in this market if one wins a high percentage then it's possible they're buying the wrong coins.

Russ, NCNE

Fletcher

1 out of 12 for me ... however, I can still lose it when it goes to the floor for auction today.

mozin

I won two of seven bids, both at my maximum. I was the underbidder on ALL the other five lots. What always gets to me is the advantage floor bidders have to split bid increments. Two of the lots I lost to floor bidders using the split increment bids.

Prices realized on Bust Halves don't look to be as high as the Reiver coins, but nearly as high.

Cladiator

<< <i>What always gets to me is the advantage floor bidders have to split bid increments. >>

please explain?

Nysoto

Clad,

Floor bidders (and phone bidders) have the option of placing a "cut bid" at less than a full increment to win the lot over the previous bid. The disadvantage with a cut bid is that it represents your final bid, and you can still be outbid by the floor.

If there is a coin you really want, being a floor bidder, or having a rep, or reserving a phone line will be to your advantage over an internet bid.

Cladiator

Interesting.

I keep hearing how being on the floor increases your chances of winning. I just can't understand this though as no matter where you are physically located, a bid is a bid. You enter in the maximum amount your willing to pay and if you don't win then the coin sold for more money than you were willing to pay.

I'm going to have to attend an auction in person to really get the feeling of how these things work I think.

Nysoto

<< <i>I keep hearing how being on the floor increases your chances of winning. I just can't understand this though as no matter where you are physically located, a bid is a bid. You enter in the maximum amount your willing to pay and if you don't win then the coin sold for more money than you were willing to pay. >>


In general, a bid is a bid no matter what the source. I think internet bidding is partly responsible for the auction price increases lately, more bidders chasing the same number of lots. Floor bidders still want the choice coins, and will bid what it takes to win above the internet bids.

Conder101

<< <i>I keep hearing how being on the floor increases your chances of winning. I just can't understand this though as no matter where you are physically located, a bid is a bid. You enter in the maximum amount your willing to pay and if you don't win then the coin sold for more money than you were willing to pay. >>


The floor bidders do have an adtantage in that they have had a chance to actually see the coin in person. A mail or internet bidder may have a tendancy to be a little more timid with their bid (Therefor their max bid is lower than it would have been if they had seen the coin in person.), and the floor bidder who has seen the coin may be willing to stretch a little further. For example the Reiver photos of the early copper were not good and someone bidding based only on the pictures would be at a disadvantage to a floor bidder.

AU58WALKERS

<< <i>

<< <i>I keep hearing how being on the floor increases your chances of winning. I just can't understand this though as no matter where you are physically located, a bid is a bid. You enter in the maximum amount your willing to pay and if you don't win then the coin sold for more money than you were willing to pay. >>


The floor bidders do have an adtantage in that they have had a chance to actually see the coin in person. A mail or internet bidder may have a tendancy to be a little more timid with their bid (Therefor their max bid is lower than it would have been if they had seen the coin in person.), and the floor bidder who has seen the coin may be willing to stretch a little further. For example the Reiver photos of the early copper were not good and someone bidding based only on the pictures would be at a disadvantage to a floor bidder. >>



This makes the most sense so far!

Being a internet bidder gets back to the origianal reason for the TPG "sight un seen bidding" and KNOWING you are getting
a properly graded coin! Yeah....right!!

TorinoCobra71

Bad nite with the Bid Stick, eh?

TorinoCobra71

fiddler

I won one of two internet bids, both bids at reserve price. I've only seen the pictures on Heritage site so now I'm worried because the bidders on the floor didn't outbid me! They've actually seen the coin, and didn't want it! Must be a real dog! I hope I like it when it shows up.

CoinResource

I was onsite at Long Beach (session 2) and a lot of coins went to internet bidders. The serious onsite buyers tended to only bid on real nice coins or very rare coins.

Also, eBay live charges a higher buyer premium from what I could tell....

Coxe

<< <i>

<< <i>I keep hearing how being on the floor increases your chances of winning. I just can't understand this though as no matter where you are physically located, a bid is a bid. You enter in the maximum amount your willing to pay and if you don't win then the coin sold for more money than you were willing to pay. >>


The floor bidders do have an adtantage in that they have had a chance to actually see the coin in person. A mail or internet bidder may have a tendancy to be a little more timid with their bid (Therefor their max bid is lower than it would have been if they had seen the coin in person.), and the floor bidder who has seen the coin may be willing to stretch a little further. For example the Reiver photos of the early copper were not good and someone bidding based only on the pictures would be at a disadvantage to a floor bidder. >>



Another distinct advantage on the floor is being able to bid your budget. Some mail bid sheets used to allow you to assign an overall maximum to your bids so the proxy bidding would cease for you, despite the individual lot maxima, once you have gone that high with your successful bids and the current lot bidding. I have not noticed anyone doing that anymore on their mail bid sheets, but might have overlooked it.

For that reason, absentee bidders are both likely to enter lower maximum bids and bid on fewer lots. With computers integrated so well in the auctions today, the companies should seriously consider returning the that absentee total maximum bid feature to make them and their consignors more $$$$ and put everyone on a similar footing (except for the lack of onsite inspections by absentees). This would be awkward for Teletrade, since their lots all close together, but would be ideal for an operation like Heritage in their signature sales.

roadrunner

That old comment by Bowers is interesting, but is grossly dependent on the quality of the coin and how much it is undergraded or overgraded. The 2nd time I ever bid at a B&R sale (1976) I ended up with a slew of lots, nearly every one I had bid on. Why? The quality was poor and I had paid way over what they were worth. The descriptions were of course overblown. I returned every lot and was "advised" by B&R not to bid blind on their auctions again. And I never did. It was over 12 years from then that I bid in any of their auctions.

After perusing the generic gold at Heritage this past week here is the scoop on $20 Saints in MS65: they ranged from $1380 all the way up to around $1700 for 65's. Very few were at the lower range which indicated surprising strength while gold was cycling hard. That price spread was similar on $5's, $10's and $20 libs as well.
Quality brings a bit more. The internet bidder can't always see all the defects in photos. If he does bid on a number of similar lots, he will end up with all low-end coins as a rule. In one case an average PCGS MS65 $2-1/2 Lib brought a bit more than an NGC MS 66. At auctions the holders mean a lot less, esp in generics.

I bid on half a dozen lots and got none. A big change from the FUN sale where I was successful on about 30% of my bids. The ones that I did lose were by a fairly small amount.

roadrunner