The Dreaded 8.5 Subgrade...
JackWESQ
Posts: 2,133 ✭✭✭
I'm no expert, but we all know that there are a "million" permutations in which to obtain a overall grade of
BGS 9. For example, I know that three subgrades of 9.5 and a 8 will result in a overall grade of BGS 9.
Additionally, three subgrades of 9 and a 8.5 will also result in an overall grade of BGS 9. However, two subgrades
of 9 and two subgrades of 8.5 will result in a overall grade of BGS 8.5
I bring this up because currently on ebay, there is a Jerry Rice rookie with a grade of BGS 9. The subgrades are
9.5 for centering and the rest are 9s. This is actually fairly rare. Often times a subgrade of 8.5 will sneak in there
and significantly decrease the value of the card. However, with no subgrade of 8.5, the value the card takes a
significant upward spike. Even now the, the Rice rookie is at $404.00 with 14 bids and a little under three days
to go.
The last BGS 9 Rice rookie sold for $280.46 and it had two 9.5s, one 9 and a final subgrade of 8.5. And before
that, a Rice rookie sold for $350.00 with subgrades of 9.5, 9, 8.5 and 9. And before that $282.55 with all 9s and
one 8.5. Why do you think the dreaded 8.5 subgrade so significant affects the value of card?
I really wouldn't be surprised if this auction went over $500.00, maybe ever $550.00 or $600.00. But I guess
I'll find out in a couple of days.
Any observations and/or comments would be greatly appreciated.
/s/ JackWESQ
BGS 9. For example, I know that three subgrades of 9.5 and a 8 will result in a overall grade of BGS 9.
Additionally, three subgrades of 9 and a 8.5 will also result in an overall grade of BGS 9. However, two subgrades
of 9 and two subgrades of 8.5 will result in a overall grade of BGS 8.5
I bring this up because currently on ebay, there is a Jerry Rice rookie with a grade of BGS 9. The subgrades are
9.5 for centering and the rest are 9s. This is actually fairly rare. Often times a subgrade of 8.5 will sneak in there
and significantly decrease the value of the card. However, with no subgrade of 8.5, the value the card takes a
significant upward spike. Even now the, the Rice rookie is at $404.00 with 14 bids and a little under three days
to go.
The last BGS 9 Rice rookie sold for $280.46 and it had two 9.5s, one 9 and a final subgrade of 8.5. And before
that, a Rice rookie sold for $350.00 with subgrades of 9.5, 9, 8.5 and 9. And before that $282.55 with all 9s and
one 8.5. Why do you think the dreaded 8.5 subgrade so significant affects the value of card?
I really wouldn't be surprised if this auction went over $500.00, maybe ever $550.00 or $600.00. But I guess
I'll find out in a couple of days.
Any observations and/or comments would be greatly appreciated.
/s/ JackWESQ
0
Comments
<< <i>Any observations and/or comments would be greatly appreciated. >>
Okay. Observation? You are analyzing this WAY too much. Comment? Stop buying Beckett graded sportscards.
Give SGC or PSA a try. You might enjoy the actual expertise that goes into evaluating the cards. PSA will make you crazy with the random "10" thing, but they are otherwise solid and SGC is peerless in customer service and accuracy/consistency. I think Beckett should evaluate every pixel in different types of light and break those down in quarter grades. Seriously, it's like they play pin the tail on the sportscard or throw darts to come up with that 8.5 sometimes.
Why do you collect Beckett anyway? Just curious. Perhaps I'm missing the boat?
dgf
I am also in the camp of DGF though - a 9 is generally a 9. Perhaps quantifying a 9+ makes people open their wallets wider, but without the subgrade detail SGC and PSA 9's tell you what you need to know too. I agree with your assertion - that it will be interesting to watch the effect of these subs on the bidding - I never knew about the 8.5 dip.
It is always interesting which of the big 3 graders people prefer, and why. Many people who collect modern swear by BGS, and therefore BVG.
I guess subgrades to me are like certs when buying diamonds - interesting, but ultimately it is the eye appeal that does it for me - I am a "buy the card not the holder guy". I have plenty of PSA 6's that strike me as NM. Plenty of SGC's and BGS cards too.
Bosox1976
First of all as of 11/1/05, BVG did away with the subgrades. I think this may say something.
2nd of all, I think the 8.5 will decrease the value if it is on centering or corners. In the one example where you laid out the 4 grades in order, the 8.5 was 3rd, which would mean edges. I think that is why it sold for $350 because the centering was 9.5 and corners 9.
I do agree however, and I used to only deal with BGS/BVG until I made the jump to strictly PSA in mid 2002, that Beckett only complicates and trivializes things with the subgrades. I believe this is why they moved away from it on the BVG side. If it were me, and I needed to buy a BGS 9 Rice, I would looke for the card with best eye appeal at a 9. Forget the subgrades because you aren't dealing with much difference. Buy the card, not the holder and don't try to figure out why people pay what they pay because you likely will not find any conclusive answers.
My Auctions
<< <i>Seriously, it's like they play pin the tail on the sportscard or throw darts to come up with that 8.5 sometimes. >>
I agree, and that's why at PogoStickGrading we use the most scientific method in the business.
<< <i>Okay. Observation? You are analyzing this WAY too much. Comment? Stop buying Beckett graded sportscards. >>
Kind of says it all right there.
Beckett, and the sub-grade foolishness, never hit home with me - or most collectors of anything but modern. DGF is right on the money regarding PSA and SGC, beyond those two companies, card grading becomes a real crap shoot.
My guess is that BVG did away with the sub-grades because it was always a dead giveaway :
9.5 centering + 9.5 corners + 9.5 edges + 8.5 surface = SHEET CUT!
I truely enjoy recently issued cards. I just have no desire to have them graded.
For crisake the stuff is coming right out of packs. It's all pristine compared to the vintage stuff I collect primarily.
Still, if I was running a grading company and wanted to still be in business 5 years down the road
I dam sure would make the 'modern card' market my top priority. After all, there's only so much vintage out there to be graded ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
I have no idea why people pay attention to the subgrades when bidding. You'll see '9.5 x 4' cards go for 150% of what a 'common' 9.5 would go for. Why? It's a total mystery. The only thing I can think of in the way of an explanation is that most card collectors get an unduplicable thrill out of heaving bundles of cash at cards-- even if they know they'll only get 50 cents on the dollar for that card down the road.
Are there other hobby's out there where people are as grossly irresponsible with their money as in card collecting? I know Steve Clark is a coin collector, so maybe he can tell us if coin freaks are as stupid with their money as card nerds.
And yes, I understand that 'it's a hobby', blah blah blah, and to that end I would never tell anyone what they should do with their money. But it's hard not to have your sensibilities offended by some of the prices that grown men pay for pictures of other grown men on pieces of cardboard. My feeling about some of these card purchases are similar to my feelings about Imelda Marcos' right to have the world's biggest shoe collection, or Elton John's right to spend 300,000 bucks on a shopping spree. I wouldn't argue that the behavior is immoral, just that I find it a little conspicuous and distasteful.
My confession about how my brain works :
50 % sex, 50 % sports, 0 % coins and 0 % house redecorating.
If it's different for you ... I respect your right to be weird.
Follow your dream ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>
<< <i>Seriously, it's like they play pin the tail on the sportscard or throw darts to come up with that 8.5 sometimes. >>
I agree, and that's why at PogoStickGrading we use the most scientific method in the business.
Nice so the highest grade I can get at PogoStickGrading is an 8?
Stingray
I received the card back with the exact same subgrades (9.5, 9, 9, 8.5). So I wouldn't call the subgrade system a sham.
Is that quote perfect on what ! Just when you think the Lions could never find someone worse that Russ Thomas, Matt Millen appears! By the way, my favorite BGS 9.5 grade is 10 10 10 8.0 surface! Lots of early 1980's O-Pee-Chee sheet cut cards with tht one!
As to the answer, I have no idea.
John
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Brian