Is 4.3 million a good deal for Josh Beckett?
yankeeno7
Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
I just read that Beckett and the Red Sox completed arbitration with Beckett receiving just over 4.3 million. To tell you the truth, I would have thought that Beckett would have commanded more on the market.
The Yankees would have done well signing him with that price tag.
The Yankees would have done well signing him with that price tag.
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Steve
<< <i>I just read that Beckett and the Red Sox completed arbitration with Beckett receiving just over 4.3 million. To tell you the truth, I would have thought that Beckett would have commanded more on the market.
The Yankees would have done well signing him with that price tag. >>
I love statements like that last one - statements where the impression is that whole world revolves around the Yankees.
Unfortunately, the Red Sox front office (much maligned as they have been this off-season), put together a great trade package to obtain Beckett - which meant the Sox had to give up two quality prospects to get him. The also got Mota and Lowell in the deal, and Mota figured in the Coco Crisp deal. Point being - the Yankees could not have simply bought him at that price tag - and they didn't posess the quality prospects to make such a trade possible.
<< <i> Point being - the Yankees could not have simply bought him at that price tag - and they didn't posess the quality prospects to make such a trade possible. >>
You were good up until the above less then stellar ending CT. First, you give the impression that the Yankees TRIED to trade for Beckett but were turned down becuase of a lesser package. Second, you sure as hell don't have a clue who the Yankees have in their farm system. I can certainly take you up on that. The trade for Beckett was a great one for the Sox. But why condemn yankee07 ofr his thoughts when yours on the Yankee position are filled with ZERO truth?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i> Point being - the Yankees could not have simply bought him at that price tag - and they didn't posess the quality prospects to make such a trade possible. >>
You were good up until the above less then stellar ending CT. First, you give the impression that the Yankees TRIED to trade for Beckett but were turned down becuase of a lesser package. Second, you sure as hell don't have a clue who the Yankees have in their farm system. I can certainly take you up on that. The trade for Beckett was a great one for the Sox. But why condemn yankee07 ofr his thoughts when yours on the Yankee position are filled with ZERO truth? >>
He didn't imply that the yankees tried, he simply said the yankees COULDN'T.
There was no condemnation, simply the (correct) statement that most yankee fans think the baseball world revolves around yankee stadium, and every high profile player is a 'potential' yankee.
Zero truth? If they yankees COULD have made a legit offer for a quality starter, you and I both KNOW they would have. They simply weren't in a postition talent-wise to make the deal.
Now who is the one with ZERO truth and ZERO credibility? Uhm, it's yankee fans (as usual).
<< <i>
Zero truth? If they yankees COULD have made a legit offer for a quality starter, you and I both KNOW they would have. They simply weren't in a postition talent-wise to make the deal.
Now who is the one with ZERO truth and ZERO credibility? Uhm, it's yankee fans (as usual). >>
Yankee fans? What about the dead beat clowns like yourself Ax who don't have even the slightest clue about another teams talent? The only thing ding dongs like yourself know is that you hate the Yankees. And THAT clouds ANY and ALL realism in your debate. MUCH MORE so than you try and pin on Yankee fans.
CTsox has talked lately about the next Roger Clemens in Jon Papelbon. And most of us know that at his age bouncing back and fourth from the minors to the bigs is because of a fastball while great in velocity, is flatter than the plains of Missouri. If any Yankee fan talked of a over hyped aging prospect like this the no nothing clowns like yourself pop out of no where to condemn the Yankee fan. Bad bad form Ax
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
What are you trying to say? you ramble on and on, and make no points (as usual). Try to use some thought before you post next time.
Yankee fans (like yourself) love to feel the world of baseball revolves around NY. You think that every possible big name free agent or trade somehow involves the yankees and if it doesn't, it's because they aren't good enough. You all live in a delusion-induced world in which you think that the yankees are the best team in terms of personnel.
Talk about bad form. You yankee dorks are so easy to make fun of...you just bring it on yourselves.
<< <i>softy-
Yankee fans (like yourself) love to feel the world of baseball revolves around NY. You think that every possible big name free agent or trade somehow involves the yankees and if it doesn't, it's because they aren't good enough. You all live in a delusion-induced world in which you think that the yankees are the best team in terms of personnel.
. >>
I want you to point out ANYTHING I have said that might even be CLOSE to referring to the world revolving around the Yankees. Just another round of meaningless hot air flying from the trap of the Yankee hater
Peanut heads like yourself Ax having been saying for a few YEARS now how the Yanks have nothing in the farm system. Then when a Robinson Cano and a Chien-Ming Wang pop up out of nowhere you just blame the New York media for over hyping them and completeley disregard what they have done at the BIG LEAGUE LEVEL already.
Typical, so typical.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
Peanut heads like yourself Ax having been saying for a few YEARS now how the Yanks have nothing in the farm system. Then when a Robinson Cano and a Chien-Ming Wang pop up out of nowhere you just blame the New York media for over hyping them and completeley disregard what they have done at the BIG LEAGUE LEVEL already.
Typical, so typical. >>
And what have they done?
Cano has hands of stone, and has one mediocre season where he has 16 walks ALL YEAR and 68 Ks.
Wang has already broken down, starts just 18 games, and just wins 8 with an ERA over 4.
So what exactly have these 2 done that have been so great?
Now is when you chime in that it's just their first season, right? Which is completely opposite of you saying "what they have done at the BIG LEAGUE LEVEL already."
Lame.
Who was I supposed to say? The Rangers? The Pirates? I am a Yankees fan only expressing that I wouldnt have minded seeing Beckett play for the team I root for.
Ignorance at its best.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Peanut heads like yourself Ax having been saying for a few YEARS now how the Yanks have nothing in the farm system. Then when a Robinson Cano and a Chien-Ming Wang pop up out of nowhere you just blame the New York media for over hyping them and completeley disregard what they have done at the BIG LEAGUE LEVEL already.
Typical, so typical. >>
And what have they done?
Cano has hands of stone, and has one mediocre season where he has 16 walks ALL YEAR and 68 Ks.
Wang has already broken down, starts just 18 games, and just wins 8 with an ERA over 4.
So what exactly have these 2 done that have been so great?
Now is when you chime in that it's just their first season, right? Which is completely opposite of you saying "what they have done at the BIG LEAGUE LEVEL already."
Lame. >>
Wang broke down? Guess you don't remember him coming back very strong from his injury. Cano has hands of stone and had a "mediocre" season? The rookie of the year voting says otherwise.
I am glad you think of these two players like this Ax. It highlites EXACTLY what you do to minimize anything NY Yankee. I can't wait for the season to start.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>As far as CT and Ax thinking that it is a yankees fans perspective that everything revolves around the yankees is such a rediculous statement.
Who was I supposed to say? The Rangers? The Pirates? I am a Yankees fan only expressing that I wouldnt have minded seeing Beckett play for the team I root for.
>>
couldn't say it better myself. The Yankee fan is not supposed to think about ummmmm, hmmmmm, the Yankees?
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<< <i>Barry, how dare you even insinuate that the Yankee could have done this or that to obtain a Josh Beckett? Don't you know that this forum does not ALLOW pro-Yankee discussion? >>
I don't think you are getting it. The point of my comment was simple - and Ax seemed to get it just fine. The initial thread stated that the Yankees would have "done well" to sign Beckett at "that price tag". Meaning, what? The Yankees basically have no farm system (I don't have to be a Yankee fan to know that - it's a widely held fact), so the way they acquire players is simple, they have to resort to free agency. Yankee fans have become used to this over the last decade or so, and now look at every player who changes teams as someone "they" should have "bought". My point was - you can't get a top quality 25 year old pitcher that way. The Yankees didn't have the prospects to pull off such a trade, plain and simple. Why is that so hard to follow?
<< <i> Meaning, what? The Yankees basically have no farm system (I don't have to be a Yankee fan to know that - it's a widely held fact), >>
my oh my. you must have come across this propaganda in the same place you read the complete BS about Jon Paplebon being a "young Roger Clemens"
Don't hold your breath for that CT, and I will see ya come the first week of April!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
But let me just say that, darn, it would have been great if the Atlanta Braves would have signed Beckett because we all know they have a great farm system.
<< <i>I don't see where I'm back peddling - I am restating the same thing I said earlier. The Sox pulled off a nice deal for Beckett using the products of their farm system, and then were able to sign Beckett to an extension because of that. I don't see how the Yankees could have done the same thing, they have no depth to their farm system to allow for such deals. >>
Again, you are trying to tell us that the Yankee farm system has no depth. Please explain this a weee bit more than making a general statement like this without some substance. Also, wake me up the next time the SOx develop a true talent out of their farm system
Lastly, Beckett being awarded a dollar figure during arbitration and the Sox "signing" him to a ONE year deal is hardly a "extension"
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Minor League News
Don't miss this part, either -
<< <i>
Boston Red Sox
Director of Player Development: Ben Cherington
Ranking: 9.8/10 Super Market : 5/5
MLN's 2005 Farm System of the Year. The Red Sox farm system has been very good for a long time.
>>
<< <i>
New York Yankees
Director of Player Development: Mark Newman
Ranking: 5/10 Super Market : 5/5
The Yankees farm system gets a middling ranking (5) because it has been ill-used in the Steinbrenner years, mostly as a vehicle for high dollar trades. It is currently fueling at the lower ranks, with the remainder of players awaiting a cup of coffee or a bus to another gig. There are some very under-appreciated talents within the Yankees farm, but we don't see them getting much more appreciation in the current enviornment.
>>
Proof is in the product on the big league field. Not some bull$hit minor league "report"
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Seriously, Cano is an error-prone, poor fielding, average hitting 2B, and Wang is broken down already after just one partial season.
You are going to have to do better than that.
<< <i>How long do we have to hear about Wang and Cano? You'd think the two of these guys were Cy Young and Rod Carew - wait a minute, Joe Torre does think that!
Seriously, Cano is an error-prone, poor fielding, average hitting 2B, and Wang is broken down already after just one partial season.
You are going to have to do better than that. >>
No I don't have to do better. They happen to be Yankee farm hands that are BIG LEAGUERS. Not some far away names with alot of hype, like ALL of the Red Sox prospects you like to mention.
Do yourself a favor CT and go and look at Cano's rookie season at the plate. a rookie who hits .297 with 14 home runs and 62 RBI's in 132 games is average?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>How long do we have to hear about Wang and Cano? You'd think the two of these guys were Cy Young and Rod Carew - wait a minute, Joe Torre does think that!
. >>
Okeee dokeee Mr. "young Clemens" Paplebon
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
As a Twins fan I find both teams entitlements to all players like Beckett a little disturbing.
<< <i>As a Twins fan I find both teams entitlements to all players like Beckett a little disturbing. >>
I would too - which is why I made those comments in the first place.
I didn't think the Red Sox were entitled to Beckett, and they didn't just open up the vault and throw a bunch of money at him. Rather, they gave up some highly regarded prospects to get him, which might come back to hurt the Sox down the road. I feel like Yankee fans always have that sense of entitlement that you mention.
<< <i>Yes because we all know that we never want to sign or trade for any good players to our favorite team. We always hope the good players go elsewhere, especially to our division rivals. >>
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Hey, lets just fill a whole with a scrub! Talent? Who needs it? Who wants it?
Though I am a Yankees fan, apparently I should be supporting the Devil Rays.
Whenever farm systems come up, all I hear is 'cano and wang! cano and wang!' And what have they done? Softy, you resort to saying they are successes because they are, and I'll quote 'BIG LEAGUERS'.
If that's how you yankeeites resort to calling successes, hell, no wonder you think you have a farm system. It's widely known when you get outside the haze known as yankeeitis that the yankees have a piss poor farm system, and their top prospects for YEARS have been dealt time after time for free agents - and it's no wonder that practice has kept the yankees from a world series for going on 6 years now.
Yankeeno, your original point, was that the yankees should have signed Beckett at 4.3 million. CT countered with the red sox traded prospects to go with that salary...somethign the yankees simply couldn't do, due to a lack of quality prospects.
Yankee fans seem to possess this feeling that no matter who is available, the yankees are in the running for them. Hillarious. I guess when you have an unlimited payroll and signing a bunch of overage, overpaid players, you think every name player is fair game.
<< <i>I guess you guys don't listen to NY Sports Talk radio, like WFAN. I don't listen anymore, but when I did, it was hilarious to hear Yankee fans call in whenever a minor Yankee tragedy was ensuing. Like, for example, the 1B gets hurt - Yankee fans call in, and say (seriously, I might add) - why don't we go and sign Pujols? Or, Todd Helton?. Need an outfielder? Why, we should get Miguel Cabrera, or Ichiro. Who cares if they are under contract - we're the Yankees! >>
CT, its about time you shut your trap. The above comment is being used by you to generalize all Yankee fans when in fact, those stupid calls you refer to come from a VERY TINY minority of Yankee fans. Time to knock you off your little haughty taughty tight a$$ that you have proven you HAVE and ARE the past few months. Not to mention your knowledge of what is going on in the game is second rate at best as you are proving more and more every day. I can't wait for Jon Paplebon the next "young Roger Clemens"
Axtell, The Yankees farm system in the last 9 months have produced Robinson Cano and Chein-Ming Wang. Yet, complete DIM BULBS like you and Ct Sox use any BS line you can think of to discount two ACTUAL FARM HANDS that have risen to the big league club. All the while the "supposed" vaunted Red Sox farm system has produced SQUAT, NOTHING, and ZIPPO. Also, you make yourself look all the more a fool riding Yankeeno7 for his thoughts on Josh Beckett by TWISTING them AROUND AND AROUND AND AROUND with the RIDICULOUS bull$hit story both you and CT Sox have concocted that Yankee fans somehow feel "entightled" to every palyer that becomes available.
IDIOTS
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>And my guess(by that statement) is that it doesnt matter if the Red Sox go for any good talent? Is that every Red Sox philosophy? Or is that the philosophy of EVERY fan other than Yankees fans?
Hey, lets just fill a whole with a scrub! Talent? Who needs it? Who wants it?
Though I am a Yankees fan, apparently I should be supporting the Devil Rays. >>
Barry, it is quite obvious that no Yankee fan on these boards can support the team without grade A jacka$$es like ctsox and Axtell coming out with their witches brew of biased and unfounded propaganda. Besides the spamster there are no Yankee fans in this forum who come close to being the fan that both Axtell and Ctsox think they have pegged. The best one I have heard yet is Ctsox commenting on friggen radio talk shows in NY that produce idiots NO MATTER what city is involved. BUT, he chooses to use that as a blanket statement about Yankee fans. Ever listen to the rag shows up in New England? NO DIFFERENCE.
Ohhhh its gonna be fun this season
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
This has also shown just how much the Yankees haters absolutely HATE the fact that they had two rookies come up and be very successful! Or maybe to them its just a bit of envy? Strange how much they attempt to discredit what these two players did last year....if they are so "average" or suck, then why is it whenever someone wanted to deal with the Yankees they specifically wanted to trade for Wang and Cano!?
Go Devil Rays!
Facts - while the Yankees just get older, and older (okay, you can mention Wang and Cano again here if you want) - the Sox are getting younger and more atheletic. Who has the Sox farm system produced? How about the future SS Dustin Pedroia (22), who will take over the position sometime this season, and Kevin Youkilis (26) at 1B. How about a 2006 rotation that will include Jonathan Papelbon (25) Jon Lester (22) and closer phenom Craig Hansen (22)? Add in Beckett (25) and Coco Crisp (26), and you have a team built for the next several years, all while freeing up cap room to go after potential free agents this off-season like Barry Zito.
The sense of entitlement from Yankee fans is real, also - when you have fielded essentially a fantasy baseball roster for the past several seasons, that's what happens. If you don't see that, soft - it's only because you choose not to.
<< <i>Oh man - this is like banging your head against a wall. I am stopping after this, because it seems like the more facts I dispense, the more upset you guys are getting. And, that's not my intention.
Facts - while the Yankees just get older, and older (okay, you can mention Wang and Cano again here if you want) - the Sox are getting younger and more atheletic. Who has the Sox farm system produced? How about the future SS Dustin Pedroia (22), who will take over the position sometime this season, and Kevin Youkilis (26) at 1B. How about a 2006 rotation that will include Jonathan Papelbon (25) Jon Lester (22) and closer phenom Craig Hansen (22)? Add in Beckett (25) and Coco Crisp (26), and you have a team built for the next several years, all while freeing up cap room to go after potential free agents this off-season like Barry Zito.
The sense of entitlement from Yankee fans is real, also - when you have fielded essentially a fantasy baseball roster for the past several seasons, that's what happens. If you don't see that, soft - it's only because you choose not to. >>
oh come on Ct.... fight with me a little huh? Don't be so damn nice.
So all of the sudden Mr. Papelbon will be in the 06 rotation? Two days after you professed he will be in AAA due to the Sox deep pitching staff?
Dust in the wind who? Craig Hansen? CT, you need to stop drinking the Sox juice man. Only kids believe everything the media guides say about prospects.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Again, it is shown that it is NOT ok that the Yankees actually brought up some young talent but IS ok that other teams do. CT, you are not making much sense.
Are those the only prospects in, say, the last 5 years who have come up with the yankees that are still with them? Is that why we're hearing their names over and over and over again?
These two clowns have been successful? Wow! Talk about lowered expectations! Wang broke down, won just 8 games, only started 18, and had an ERA over 4 (quality, right?) and Cano was second in the league in errors behind Soriano, and Cano, with a full season this year (unless he breaks down, too) will certainly lead the league.
Why were they 2 players most wanted? Uhm, they were the ONLY two players wanted. Ever think of that?
Good god you guys are dense.