How Could We Construct a Searchable Database?

cardinarky · February 1, 2006 11:53PM

This is for both Autograph Collectors and Card Collectors. The Definition of Forgery is anything made to decieve or replicate as original. It is not exclusive to signatures and Forgery and Counterfiet are interchangable.

As collectors, we need to have "reference libraries" online that we can access easily. Hopefully these databases will not consist of just one or two signature examples, but signatures of the athlete or whatever, over time if possible.
We could all contribute to it.

We also need to have a fast EXCEL type spreadsheet of the known forgers on eBay. There is a thread at SportsCollectors.Net that is the seed of the idea, but it is VERY AKWARD, with only 40 or so entries causing it to be unwieldy . We need to have an easily searchable sortable database of these people and their I.D.'s

There are folks involved with this hobby who are very computer literate who could probably set up the framework and then the rest of us could contribute our suggested candidates. A moderator would be necessary to determine valid admissions. An example of this would be the "SHILL" bidding discussion that recently took place on this forum. The individual is OBVIOUSLY SHILLING and those I.D.'s would be entered and then be searchable by our collector family.
To avoid liability we could refer to the list as something other than Forgers or Shillers or whatever, but the rest of us would know to be cautious.
We really need some "lighthouses" to navigate this hobby. The reefs and shoals are out of control.

fsjeter · February 2, 2006 12:01AM

I suggest we start a thread or change the title of this thread to Autograph Exemplars and people start posting scans of auto's. As far as the forgers and scammers excel spreadsheet, you would need a "librarian," if you will, to maintain that sheet. Any volunteers!

Scott

MajorDanby · February 2, 2006 12:46AM

<< <i>We also need to have a fast EXCEL type spreadsheet of the known forgers on eBay. There is a thread at SportsCollectors.Net that is the seed of the idea, but it is VERY AKWARD, with only 40 or so entries causing it to be unwieldy . We need to have an easily searchable sortable database of these people and their I.D.'s >>

Very good idea. We just need someone to propel this project. Also, not just forgers...but sellers who shill, sell reprints and trimmed cards and so forth. We have a wealth of knowledge in this forum...and you can likely ask the folks at net54 (and sportscollectors.net) to provide their input.

muchuckwagon · February 2, 2006 1:25AM

First off...hello to everyone. I have been watching the boards for almost two years and this is my first post.

This project would not be that hard to run. You can create a web page with a form that an user could enter the player's name and an image with the autograph sample. The form would update a database. You can then build a "player directory" page that queries the database and lists everyone with a sample autograph or search by name....click on the player's name and the image of the autograph would be displayed. This eliminates the need for one person to complete all the data entry.

The same logic could be applied to a web page and form to track the id's of the bad guys. I would be concerned about people jumping the gun and listing people as a "bad guy" with no way to validate the information. It could become a mess.

fsjeter · February 2, 2006 1:30AM

muchuckwagon,

Good idea, however, someone will have to maintain, and possibly pay for, that site. I know there are free hosting sites but you are only allowed so much space. If you exceed that, you start paying and with all the proposed posts of names and images, I don't think it will take too long to reach that limit.

Scott

alinchitown · February 2, 2006 2:11AM

Card
That can be done over at invision free in the form of a forum.... you could dedicate different areas within the forum for different things such as signature comparisons/known shillers/known scammer ID's etc..... within those topics and within the main frame of forum it would allow you to search by titles etc....

I run a forum over there which now has over 12,000 posts and a few hundred different topics under different areas and so far have only used 5% of the aloted free space.... If you wanna take a look at my site and see if this would fit the bill it's

The Smack Zone

You would need to sign in to take a look see.... If it fits the bill LMK I could set it up but I would'nt want to moderate it 24/7....

MooseDog · February 2, 2006 5:37AM

I might be interested in doing this project...I have cheap web hosting available and enough technical savvy to get the site up and running. A couple of thoughts though:

1) It would have to be a membership only site. Otherwise it opens the door to forgers and scammers to download and copy signatures. At least with a membership format those signing up can be watched. Legally, I would have to consult with someone versed on such matters, but posting IDs of bad eBay sellers might run into some libel and slander issues. I wouldn't want to do that unless I had some legal advice. Anyone a lawyer out there?

2) Would people be willing to pay a token amount, say $12-20 a year to have access to this kind of data base?

3) This way would work better than a free hosting service because there is more control.

Thoughts?

cardinarky · February 2, 2006 11:07PM

Well, based on the response over 24 hours, It looks like there is "mild" interest in attempting this sort of thing. I'm surprised frankly that more people would not want to have a source created by ourselves that would give them a little reassurrance when buying on the internet.

As far as moderating the program, I will volunteer to do that. I am retired/disabled and have significant excess time.
Setting the program up? I have limited computer skills. I am very familiar with EXCEL and its' sorting capabilities. I believe when you use advanced search on eBay and query the past 30 days activity on a seller or buyer, the sort capabilities are all EXCEL type program executions. That is, in the beginning what I was thinking of.
A listing of the individuals' I.D. in one column and the type of involvements in additional columns. Shilling, Forging, mis-grading, etc. That way the list could be alphanumerically updated so a specific I.D. could be easily located. Additionally the individual user could sort by "scam" to lump all the forgers first, or shillers first. Then request a secondary sort to list the shillers for example by alphanumeric I.D.. This would be very simple to use, and I think, of much value.
It was mentioned that this would probably need to be a chargable service. I certainly would pay a $1 or $2 a month to at least know the person I am puying from is not on our HOT SHEET.

Legalities? We are a "club" right? We are allowed to have opinions within our closed group right? As long as that part of the function has an "enrollment process" why can't we talk among ourselves as long as the general public does not have free access?

As far as getting a name put on the list, a procedure similar to the recent thread by mudflap regarding the shill bidding would be required. There would need to be specific and multiple evidence to substantiate the claim. A certain number of members would be required to be in agreement as to the accusation. For example, if four (4) of the more experienced collectors were "certain" that the evidence was overwelming, as in the case of the shill bidder ( I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING MORE BLATANT THAN THAT) the seller I.D. would be approved for attachment to the list. Then the list moderator would, with access to a password, open the list and place the I.D. with associated offenses on the list.
The problem with evidence and eBay is that after 30 days their records disappear. We would need to have in each case, that went on the list, a permanent mirror thread of the evidence we used to come to the conclusion we did.
I understand that this is somewhat complicated and cumbersome but the tidal wave of fraud that we are facing daily, needs to be addressed.

fsjeter · February 3, 2006 12:11AM

No offense, but I personally wouldn't want to pay for this information. I just did a quick search and the information is out there for free if you look hard enough. As far as the "eBay Blacklist" is concerned, I like the forum idea. We do a pretty good job of keeping each other informed in these forums. Just me $0.02.

Scott

alinchitown · February 3, 2006 12:26AM

As far as legalities are concerned as long you are not doing so in manner to seek profit from the information supplied, you can discuss whomever or whatever you want to.

wick70 · February 3, 2006 12:53AM

PSA/DNA does have a link for exemplars.
Exemplar link
They do charge for this service and I'm sure that you guys were probably unaware of this feature. I'm not sure if PSA would appreciate the discussion of starting up a cheaper website devoted to autograph authentication right on their front lawn. Those are my $.02.

Cheers! Wick

cardinarky · February 3, 2006 1:58AM

I don't see anywhere on the PSA database where they mention SHILLS or FORGERS by I.D. for their auctions. The service regarding autographs, can be done but haphazardly by queing on ebay for certified (UD carefully) autographs and using them as examples.

cardinarky · February 3, 2006 7:52AM

Just finished looking at the PSA Examplar site. They have 120 TOTAL AUTOGRAPH EXHIBITS of baseball player signatures. Most of those are HOF and or deseased.
There are NO examples of current player autographs in the list of 120.
I can't personally see why anyone would pay $4.95 for a month or $24.95 for six months of such an abbreviated service.
The retired HOF players autograph examples are readily available at various locations on the web for FREE already.
What is not so readily available, are the current player autograph examples. Those would be the ones that would be of interest.

How Could We Construct a Searchable Database?

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