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envoy98
Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
Here is the link to the story with pics etc...)
KCKings Story
January 30
(MORE FORGED AUTOGRAPHS ALLEGED IN UPPER DECK CARD PRODUCT, SOME SOLD ON EBAY)
In what could seriously damage the trading card industry TBR has learned there are several more cards from Upper Deck Legendary Cuts which could be forgeries, being sold on eBay. TBR has alerted respected autograph authenticators about these auctions and there are some which experts say are not authentic. We’ve requested in writing an interview with an Upper Deck representative with authority to discuss the issue but so far we have not been granted such an interview.
The latest revelation comes more than a week after HBO Real Sports aired a segment on forged autographs which highlighted a 1-of-1 card pulled from UD SP Legendary Cuts and which sold on eBay for $85,000 to Kevin Demitros, a collector from Milwaukee. TBR interviewed Demitros last week. He was negotiating with Upper Deck to return the card so the company could check it to see if the autographs were found to be counterfeit, and if so the company would make good on the product. (See story below).
The card featured cut autographs of Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb. The Ruth and Johnson were alleged to be forgeries with more than one authenticator saying these two were bogus.
The key figure in the HBO story was a man convicted dealing in forged merchandise in the aftermath of the break-up of the Greg Marino family forgery ring by the FBI in 1999. This was one of the most prolific forgery groups in autograph history which had set up an elaborate scheme not only to forge vintage autographs but to certify them. The man interviewed by HBO called himself “Eddie.” Eddie is in fact Shelly Jaffe a well known former dealer of cards and autographs since the hobby’s heyday more than 20 years ago. TBR also has been in contact with Jaffe who goes on the record for the first time since the HBO Report.
The reason Jaffe says he brought this out? Since his arrest in 1999 he says fraud on eBay, online and in the magazines has increased more than 100-fold. He wanted to help put a stop to the rampant fraud in the autograph industry he loves. As much as he has tried to alert the public about this he says he has to throw up his hands. This is why he hoped the HBO show would have an impact. The impact he says was; "people bad mouthed me and didn’t realize what I was saying is the truth."
“I send out emails to people bidding on bad eBay auctions and I get lots of emails thanking me for pointing out bad autographs on eBay and there are others who tell me to mind my own business,” he told TBR. “What I did in the past was wrong, I know that but the shame of it is they missed the big dealers. I could send you a hundred bad autographs a day I see on eBay.”
Regarding the HBO show; before Jaffe sent scans of the quad card to show producers they told him “we know and trust your opinion, can you send this to four of the top authenticators you trust before we show this on the air?”
Before TBR did anything with items Jaffe brought to our attention on eBay we wanted to make sure what he said was true. Below are those results. It should be noted before we sought the input of a respected authenticator Jaffe did the same thing and to more than just the person we used. Every one of the autographs Jaffe sent TBR failed to pass the test of the authenticator we submitted scans to. We also submitted other scans of Legendary Cuts autographs to our authenticator and some did pass as genuine.
The authenticator we used is one of the most respected in the industry. We are choosing not to reveal his name simply because we had to allow him to view the eBay auctions rather than hold them in front of him. Some of which he would not render a complete opinion simply because the seller’s eBay photo was not as good as the others.
The eBay auctions looked at featuring Legendary Cuts signatures are as follows. The opinion of the authenticator follows in parenthesis:
No. 8755524200 Babe Ruth Signature #1/3 Sold $8600
(Forgery)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8755524200
No. 8744833245 Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig #1/1 Minimum Bid $25,000
(Authentic)
eBay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8744833245
No. 8710561826 Babe Ruth no. 5/7 Minimum Bid $12,950
(Authentic)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8710561826
No. 8731009028 Babe Ruth no. 7/13 Minimum Bid $8,450
(Forgery)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8731009028
No. 8752947218 Joe DiMaggio/Ted Williams no. 3/9 Sold for $1681.00
(DiMaggio Authentic, Williams Forgery)
(Williams considered a secretarial autograph signed by a designated signer for Williams)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8752947218
No. 8750420246 Ted Williams no. 8/9 Sold for $1235.63
(Forgery)
(Williams' signature believed to be signed by Johnny Orlando, a clubhouse attendant who was designated to sign Williams' autographs in the 1940’s. Usually seen with the four “humps” in the letter “m” before the “s” in “Williams.”)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8750420246
No. 8756535722 Ted Williams no. 22/28 Sold for $1025.00
(Authentic from the late 1960’s)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8756535722
There was also a Connie Mack autograph which has since been pulled down but we still have that scan. “Definitely not Connie Mack” said our expert. Most we showed this to could not believe anyone thought this might be the former Philadelphia manager and Hall of Famer.
(Forgery)
It should be noted not all of these cards were from 2005 UD SP Legendary Cuts. Some were from previous sets as the product has been in existence for several years. It should also be mentioned here secretarial and clubhouse signatures were done with the player’s permission. So while they were not authentic there are those in the industry who do not consider these “fraudulent forgeries” but rather a third category which is often called “clubhouse.” The fact remains they are not the player’s actual signature and therefore should not be sold as such.
If the above named “Forgery” autographs are actually “forged” how in the world could Upper Deck, one of the most respected companies in this industry, allow this to happen?
“It was greed, because here was a company that in 1989 said there will no longer be forgeries in the card business, adding a hologram to protect collectors and it was a wonderful story for them,” said Jaffe. “Then they decided to get into the autograph end of this. And they’ve always said they had reps at all signings. That was not always true, they changed that. If you got a Jordan card how do you know he signed it?”
Jaffe says he saw Upper Deck getting out of its element by moving from current autographs and into vintage when the market dictated more demand for vintage items.
“The most important thing is they went out of their own realm and had no idea what they were doing once they left their own people, and these cuts turn out to be the perfect example of it,” he told TBR. “When the HBO show came up they proved exactly what I was talking about. That companies like Steiner and Upper Deck should stick to the people that they have contracts with.”
For Jaffe it showed a pattern of greed and mis-direction for a company which came into the trading card fray with a lot of promise and high end products. There have always been allegations of printing more of a product when the product got very hot and in demand on the open market. 1991 French Hockey cards were in such demand the Sergei Federov rookie card was selling for $180 because it was so limited. Then there were accusations of Upper Deck going back and printing more, changing the limitations. The card now sells for about $10. Jaffe was a recipient of some of the profits which came with the hot product.
“When French hockey got hot I was delivered 7-8 cases, when the Dale Murphy (1989 UD Baseball) error cards were printed I had hundreds of them,” said Jaffe. “They were not a public company; they controlled everything that took place inside the company.”
This practice in the card industry is commonly called “back dooring,” where a company prints more cases or even single cards. There were “singles” programs as well where certain dealers could buy large lots of single cards for certain considerations. This was not limited to Upper Deck. Classic Cards, under The Score Board banner, had a similar program. Sometimes it was cards for advertising, other times for cash.
A story we did more than 10 years ago in Sports Collectors Digest confirmed the delivery of many of these lots to dealers which came from then Upper Deck board members. (See the book “Card Sharks”). The practice was one of the factors believed to have led to the card market crashing after 1991.
“Many of their spokespersons from Upper Deck made more money by selling stuff out the back door than they got for their name,” added Jaffe.
It should be noted here this practice of reprinting these cards, or selling singles in this manner is not illegal. The ethics part of the equation is left up to the dealers and collectors to ask about.
However, back to the autographs from Legendary Cuts products there remains many questions. One of the big questions centers on where Upper Deck is getting these autographs if they are forged as some experts say they are? So far Upper Deck has not responded except to tell HBO they stand behind their products.
“I think that it not only woke people up but it will stop people from buying, I mean I sure as hell wouldn’t want to buy anything,” said Jaffe. “And especially when the company that sold it can’t tell you, or won’t tell you, who they bought it from.”
The industry is waiting for Upper Deck to come forward with answers, especially the thousands of customers who bought this product and the dealers who sold it. Jaffe hopes the company will let the industry know what happened and how it plans on fixing it before more damage is done.
“What I hope comes from all of this is an end to all the cover-ups that if an item is being sold as authentic you better have six ways from Sunday to back it up or don’t sell it,” he told TBR. “If a card is produced as a “1/1” I want to make sure there isn’t another just in case that card is damaged because otherwise it’s not going to be “1/1” which means it could reappear again. If it gets damaged it is the end of it. Protect the consumer. There is no such thing as 1/1 if there is another behind it.”
**
January 30
(BUYER OF $85,000 CARD NOW DEALING WITH UD THROUGH HIS LAWYER)
Kevin Demitros is not happy at all with the way Upper Deck is handling his case involving the Quad card he paid $85,000 for. After playing phone tag with UD President Bob Andrews, Demitros says subsequent conversations regarding the card have not been fruitful.
“It went from they wanted to get the card back to have their authenticators look at it, to now they want to make me an offer, and to not respecting my wishes to have all communications via email in writing,” Demitros told TBR Sunday night. “I’m not sure what the problem is but I’m extremely upset and very disappointed with how Upper Deck has handled this so far. They’ve showed me no respect or common courtesy to address the issues I feel are extremely important.”
Demitros says he has been an avid Upper Deck collector. This was a super high end card he really wanted.
He paid $85,000 on eBay for the 1/1 card (from the product UD SP Legendary Cuts issued by Upper Deck) which features four cut autographs supposedly of Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner. Shelly Jaffe (see above story) told HBO Real Sports two of the autographs were forgeries (Ruth and Johnson) and more than one respected authenticator backed up the claim. Upper Deck contacted Demitros before the program aired to advise him there may be a problem. Demitros says he feels very bad for the hobby and bad for Upper Deck as well.
“The last thing I wanted to do was spread more dirt on the hobby but I’m totally shocked they don’t seem to want to handle this in a successful manner,” he said. “As of this week I’m letting my attorney handle this.”
**
KCKings Story
January 30
(MORE FORGED AUTOGRAPHS ALLEGED IN UPPER DECK CARD PRODUCT, SOME SOLD ON EBAY)
In what could seriously damage the trading card industry TBR has learned there are several more cards from Upper Deck Legendary Cuts which could be forgeries, being sold on eBay. TBR has alerted respected autograph authenticators about these auctions and there are some which experts say are not authentic. We’ve requested in writing an interview with an Upper Deck representative with authority to discuss the issue but so far we have not been granted such an interview.
The latest revelation comes more than a week after HBO Real Sports aired a segment on forged autographs which highlighted a 1-of-1 card pulled from UD SP Legendary Cuts and which sold on eBay for $85,000 to Kevin Demitros, a collector from Milwaukee. TBR interviewed Demitros last week. He was negotiating with Upper Deck to return the card so the company could check it to see if the autographs were found to be counterfeit, and if so the company would make good on the product. (See story below).
The card featured cut autographs of Babe Ruth, Walter Johnson, Honus Wagner and Ty Cobb. The Ruth and Johnson were alleged to be forgeries with more than one authenticator saying these two were bogus.
The key figure in the HBO story was a man convicted dealing in forged merchandise in the aftermath of the break-up of the Greg Marino family forgery ring by the FBI in 1999. This was one of the most prolific forgery groups in autograph history which had set up an elaborate scheme not only to forge vintage autographs but to certify them. The man interviewed by HBO called himself “Eddie.” Eddie is in fact Shelly Jaffe a well known former dealer of cards and autographs since the hobby’s heyday more than 20 years ago. TBR also has been in contact with Jaffe who goes on the record for the first time since the HBO Report.
The reason Jaffe says he brought this out? Since his arrest in 1999 he says fraud on eBay, online and in the magazines has increased more than 100-fold. He wanted to help put a stop to the rampant fraud in the autograph industry he loves. As much as he has tried to alert the public about this he says he has to throw up his hands. This is why he hoped the HBO show would have an impact. The impact he says was; "people bad mouthed me and didn’t realize what I was saying is the truth."
“I send out emails to people bidding on bad eBay auctions and I get lots of emails thanking me for pointing out bad autographs on eBay and there are others who tell me to mind my own business,” he told TBR. “What I did in the past was wrong, I know that but the shame of it is they missed the big dealers. I could send you a hundred bad autographs a day I see on eBay.”
Regarding the HBO show; before Jaffe sent scans of the quad card to show producers they told him “we know and trust your opinion, can you send this to four of the top authenticators you trust before we show this on the air?”
Before TBR did anything with items Jaffe brought to our attention on eBay we wanted to make sure what he said was true. Below are those results. It should be noted before we sought the input of a respected authenticator Jaffe did the same thing and to more than just the person we used. Every one of the autographs Jaffe sent TBR failed to pass the test of the authenticator we submitted scans to. We also submitted other scans of Legendary Cuts autographs to our authenticator and some did pass as genuine.
The authenticator we used is one of the most respected in the industry. We are choosing not to reveal his name simply because we had to allow him to view the eBay auctions rather than hold them in front of him. Some of which he would not render a complete opinion simply because the seller’s eBay photo was not as good as the others.
The eBay auctions looked at featuring Legendary Cuts signatures are as follows. The opinion of the authenticator follows in parenthesis:
No. 8755524200 Babe Ruth Signature #1/3 Sold $8600
(Forgery)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8755524200
No. 8744833245 Babe Ruth/Lou Gehrig #1/1 Minimum Bid $25,000
(Authentic)
eBay link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8744833245
No. 8710561826 Babe Ruth no. 5/7 Minimum Bid $12,950
(Authentic)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8710561826
No. 8731009028 Babe Ruth no. 7/13 Minimum Bid $8,450
(Forgery)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8731009028
No. 8752947218 Joe DiMaggio/Ted Williams no. 3/9 Sold for $1681.00
(DiMaggio Authentic, Williams Forgery)
(Williams considered a secretarial autograph signed by a designated signer for Williams)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8752947218
No. 8750420246 Ted Williams no. 8/9 Sold for $1235.63
(Forgery)
(Williams' signature believed to be signed by Johnny Orlando, a clubhouse attendant who was designated to sign Williams' autographs in the 1940’s. Usually seen with the four “humps” in the letter “m” before the “s” in “Williams.”)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8750420246
No. 8756535722 Ted Williams no. 22/28 Sold for $1025.00
(Authentic from the late 1960’s)
eBay Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8756535722
There was also a Connie Mack autograph which has since been pulled down but we still have that scan. “Definitely not Connie Mack” said our expert. Most we showed this to could not believe anyone thought this might be the former Philadelphia manager and Hall of Famer.
(Forgery)
It should be noted not all of these cards were from 2005 UD SP Legendary Cuts. Some were from previous sets as the product has been in existence for several years. It should also be mentioned here secretarial and clubhouse signatures were done with the player’s permission. So while they were not authentic there are those in the industry who do not consider these “fraudulent forgeries” but rather a third category which is often called “clubhouse.” The fact remains they are not the player’s actual signature and therefore should not be sold as such.
If the above named “Forgery” autographs are actually “forged” how in the world could Upper Deck, one of the most respected companies in this industry, allow this to happen?
“It was greed, because here was a company that in 1989 said there will no longer be forgeries in the card business, adding a hologram to protect collectors and it was a wonderful story for them,” said Jaffe. “Then they decided to get into the autograph end of this. And they’ve always said they had reps at all signings. That was not always true, they changed that. If you got a Jordan card how do you know he signed it?”
Jaffe says he saw Upper Deck getting out of its element by moving from current autographs and into vintage when the market dictated more demand for vintage items.
“The most important thing is they went out of their own realm and had no idea what they were doing once they left their own people, and these cuts turn out to be the perfect example of it,” he told TBR. “When the HBO show came up they proved exactly what I was talking about. That companies like Steiner and Upper Deck should stick to the people that they have contracts with.”
For Jaffe it showed a pattern of greed and mis-direction for a company which came into the trading card fray with a lot of promise and high end products. There have always been allegations of printing more of a product when the product got very hot and in demand on the open market. 1991 French Hockey cards were in such demand the Sergei Federov rookie card was selling for $180 because it was so limited. Then there were accusations of Upper Deck going back and printing more, changing the limitations. The card now sells for about $10. Jaffe was a recipient of some of the profits which came with the hot product.
“When French hockey got hot I was delivered 7-8 cases, when the Dale Murphy (1989 UD Baseball) error cards were printed I had hundreds of them,” said Jaffe. “They were not a public company; they controlled everything that took place inside the company.”
This practice in the card industry is commonly called “back dooring,” where a company prints more cases or even single cards. There were “singles” programs as well where certain dealers could buy large lots of single cards for certain considerations. This was not limited to Upper Deck. Classic Cards, under The Score Board banner, had a similar program. Sometimes it was cards for advertising, other times for cash.
A story we did more than 10 years ago in Sports Collectors Digest confirmed the delivery of many of these lots to dealers which came from then Upper Deck board members. (See the book “Card Sharks”). The practice was one of the factors believed to have led to the card market crashing after 1991.
“Many of their spokespersons from Upper Deck made more money by selling stuff out the back door than they got for their name,” added Jaffe.
It should be noted here this practice of reprinting these cards, or selling singles in this manner is not illegal. The ethics part of the equation is left up to the dealers and collectors to ask about.
However, back to the autographs from Legendary Cuts products there remains many questions. One of the big questions centers on where Upper Deck is getting these autographs if they are forged as some experts say they are? So far Upper Deck has not responded except to tell HBO they stand behind their products.
“I think that it not only woke people up but it will stop people from buying, I mean I sure as hell wouldn’t want to buy anything,” said Jaffe. “And especially when the company that sold it can’t tell you, or won’t tell you, who they bought it from.”
The industry is waiting for Upper Deck to come forward with answers, especially the thousands of customers who bought this product and the dealers who sold it. Jaffe hopes the company will let the industry know what happened and how it plans on fixing it before more damage is done.
“What I hope comes from all of this is an end to all the cover-ups that if an item is being sold as authentic you better have six ways from Sunday to back it up or don’t sell it,” he told TBR. “If a card is produced as a “1/1” I want to make sure there isn’t another just in case that card is damaged because otherwise it’s not going to be “1/1” which means it could reappear again. If it gets damaged it is the end of it. Protect the consumer. There is no such thing as 1/1 if there is another behind it.”
**
January 30
(BUYER OF $85,000 CARD NOW DEALING WITH UD THROUGH HIS LAWYER)
Kevin Demitros is not happy at all with the way Upper Deck is handling his case involving the Quad card he paid $85,000 for. After playing phone tag with UD President Bob Andrews, Demitros says subsequent conversations regarding the card have not been fruitful.
“It went from they wanted to get the card back to have their authenticators look at it, to now they want to make me an offer, and to not respecting my wishes to have all communications via email in writing,” Demitros told TBR Sunday night. “I’m not sure what the problem is but I’m extremely upset and very disappointed with how Upper Deck has handled this so far. They’ve showed me no respect or common courtesy to address the issues I feel are extremely important.”
Demitros says he has been an avid Upper Deck collector. This was a super high end card he really wanted.
He paid $85,000 on eBay for the 1/1 card (from the product UD SP Legendary Cuts issued by Upper Deck) which features four cut autographs supposedly of Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Walter Johnson and Honus Wagner. Shelly Jaffe (see above story) told HBO Real Sports two of the autographs were forgeries (Ruth and Johnson) and more than one respected authenticator backed up the claim. Upper Deck contacted Demitros before the program aired to advise him there may be a problem. Demitros says he feels very bad for the hobby and bad for Upper Deck as well.
“The last thing I wanted to do was spread more dirt on the hobby but I’m totally shocked they don’t seem to want to handle this in a successful manner,” he said. “As of this week I’m letting my attorney handle this.”
**
0
Comments
Sleazebags
Steve
On one hand I'm happy to see they didn't just immediately buy it back and try to make this story go away as it shows some faith in their product and that they aren't just trying to make this go away quietly. On the other hand, it bothers me that they didn't do that almost as a sign of arrogance. At the same time, they aren't revealing where these autographs came from which is troublesome to me.
Not sure what to think of this whole thing, other than it can't be good...
Just another nail for the vintage guys to use in the modern coffin.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
If anything it will impact the vintage autograph market more.
...Jaffe says he saw Upper Deck getting out of its element by moving from current autographs and into vintage when the market dictated more demand for vintage items.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
Steve
<< <i>Upper Deck has been crooked since day 1 >>
Upper Deck has been crooked since Card #1 as well..
I could see a ripple effect though from the vintage to everything else UD does. Baseball has shown it is not afraid to pull a license from a card company. If this was done knowlingly and/or other issues come out it would not surprise me to see their license pulled. It would be tougher as I am sure MLB does not want to have just one horse running (Topps). But if the autographs are bad, what is to say the game used jerseys are not at issue (all of those cut up Ruth, Cobb, etc.) Also the use of stickers now keeps them from seeing everything signed in person which could lead to ghost signers? Who knows where it goes.
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
Collecting Tony Perez PSA and Rookie Baseball PSA
These are obviously Williams forgeries. It should not take an "expert" to spot either of these.
Even with the UD blessing flying all over the cards, you would think someone with "a little expertiese" would have blown the whistle, or at least strongly questioned both of these examples during the auction. There are enough "red flags" on both the Williams items to cause them to be questioned.
I know you will say I'm "Monday Morning" critizing, but really they are very bad from the perspective of people who study and collect Williams.
The Upper Deck bus must be driven by children, regarding their knowledge of autographs of the players.
You almost have to conclude that these mistakes are INTENTIONAL, UD can't be that poor a judge of this product.
8750420246: The formation of the "T" bottom loop, Ted comes down and then back to the left and essentially forms a "figure 8", this card example is completely WRONG. The end of the "d" terminates the flow of the signature on this card. Williams ALWAYS comes straignt out of the "d" with a almost vertical continuous rise into a loop starting the top of the "W" the loop is sometimes tight, or sometimes large, but there is always a loop. In this example the writing was terminated at the bottom of the "d" and the "W" is a new start. The only place I have seen this remotely similar was from "CLUBHOUSE" signatures in the late 40's to early 50's. The "a" in Williams is totally uncharacteristic and the "m" has FOUR HUMPS!! NO ONE who is at all familiar with Williams, as Upper Deck should surely be because they sold about 25,000 of his items while he was alive, would say that this is a real Williams.
8752947218: The formation of the base of the"T" is totally wrong, the bottom of the "e" going into the formation of the "d' is completely uncharacteristic. The tail of the "d' going into the loop to begin the "W" is not consistent. The three humps of the "m" the separation or spread should be after the first hump, NOT after the second. The "i" following the W is a upward curved entry, not a "backtrack" that is curved in the wrong direction.
8752947218 being on the card stock it is, there was/is a mass autograph seller on eBay who constantly was using that particular card run for literally hundreds if not thousands of autographs. He had more autographed "old" card stock from the 60's thru the late 80's than anyone I can remember in the recent past. He also bought a lot of older card lots THE CARD LOTS HE HAS WON RECENTLY LAST 30 DAYS (September 05) ARE AS FOLLOWS.
351 1961 Topps
218 1962 Topps
243 1966 Topps
260 1966 Topps
331 1961 Topps
263 1964 Topps
184 1967 Topps
386 1967 Topps
900 1968 Topps
Since registering in November of 04 he had 13,000+ auctions sold and most of them were autographed on this type of card stock.
Right now he has 500+ auctions running and NONE of the material is autographed. This is a complete flip from what he sold previously.
have a feeling that their supposed "gold standard" process has a few holes in it.
UD got the 2nd MLB license because they outbid Donruss for it. Plus UD has a bigger marketing dept and can promote the hobby better than Donruss.
This does highlight the one advantage Topps has over UD, their history. As a shareholder of Topps, I hope they hammer those weasals from Sea Otter Place.