Will Bernie Williams make the Hall of Fame?

GoYankeesGo · January 28, 2006 8:45AM

I say yes. In this age of selfish, pompous, steroid induced baseball players Bernie Williams is just the opposite. Sure he will be borderline and probably will not be a first time Hall of Famer, but I think that his superior regular season play, his post season records, and four World Championships and two pennants will certainly help as well as his nice guy image. True that many of his post season records are due to the fact being there are more rounds of playoffs now, but nonetheless he did accomplish the records. It's not going to hurt either that Bernie passed Joe DiMaggio last year and is now 4th on the Yankee all time hit list. This article sums up my feelings very well:

Class Is In

"He was the second-best center fielder in the AL since 1980, but how does he stack up historically? We know the other aspects of his game were solid, but how does he measure up against the great center fielders in history? Offensively, he’s 11th in RCAA among 20-21st century center fielders and eighth in the Junior Circuit. He’s third among Yankees behind Hall of Famers Mickey Mantle and Joe DiMaggio, and ahead of Earle Combs."

So Yankee haters, when you vote in this poll, please don't let your Yankee hatred get in the way.

Recently Maury Allen wrote an article about Johhny Damon where he said that "One could make the case that he (Johhny Damon) will be the third best center fielder in Yankees' history, eclipsed only by Yankee deities Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle and compared favorably to any other who patrolled the position in Yankee Stadium." Come on man! Damon hasn't even stepped foot in a regular season game in pinstripes yet:

Linky

Sometimes sports writers make jackass comments and this one gets to vote for the HOF. Just lovely. LOL

Bernie Williams plays the classical guitar and he made a record album a few years back. Recently Bernie gave a concert at a church benefit for disdvantaged children which I attended. All the proceeds went to benefit the children and Bernie received no renumeration. Just how many prima donnas in sports do you think would do that today?

thegemmintman · January 28, 2006 8:57AM

Huge Yankee fan here. Have to say nope. I just don't feel it.

GoYankeesGo · January 28, 2006 9:00AM

thegemmintman, Bernie gets no respect. Sure he has gone downhill fast but in his prime he was one of the best Center Fielders of his era.

frankhardy · January 28, 2006 9:13AM

Good player. NOT a HOF'er.

perkdog · January 28, 2006 9:42AM

He was not "great" long enough, as a Sox fan I thought of him always as a very smart hitter and respected him for staying in pin stripes. If the hall got guys in for attitude and class he would be a sure fire HOF'er but his numbers IMO are just not there.

GoYankeesGo · January 28, 2006 9:54AM

Bernie will probably have 2,500 hits when he retires. Not too shabby.

Axtell · January 28, 2006 11:09AM

Bernie is NOT a HoFer, not even one of the best CF of his era (much to the chagrin of Spammy here).

You're assuming he gets to 2500 hits. That's 282 hits away, and with his playing time dropping dramatically, you're looking at least 2 more years, maybe 3. I doubt he gets there.

And the reason he gets no respect is because he's a bad outfielder with no range and even less of an arm.

ctsoxfan · January 28, 2006 11:30AM

You must be kidding me, Spammy.

Is Scott Brosius going to the HOF too?

Axtell · January 28, 2006 11:42AM

The author of the article admits he is biased.

All you need to know that this author is clueless is this quote:

"Williams stacks up very well here. Ken Griffey Jr. is the elite among center fielders offensively; however below Junior are Williams and Jim Edmonds. Since 1980, Williams ranks second in overall offense among AL center fielders."

I'd like to see the breakdown that makes Bernie the SECOND best hitting outfielder in the AL since 1980.

edit: saw this at the bottom of the article:

"John Brattain’s work has been featured at About.com, MLBtalk, Yankees.com, Replacement Level Yankee Weblog,

No he's not a yankee apologist or anything.

bri2327 · January 28, 2006 11:43AM

As much as I love Bernie, what he has meant to the Yankees, how he conducted himself on and off the field etc, he just isnt a hall of fame player.

Brosius aint goin either........but I hear Dent and Boone might get a special wing in the hall

--

ctsoxfan · January 28, 2006 11:48AM

Jim Edmonds is a much better CF than Williams - not even close, really.

Just at a glance, he has 56 more career HR's than Williams (in 2 less seasons played, as well), and Edmonds has won 8 Gold Gloves to Williams 4. There is more statistical evidence, but I don't think you need any more.

ArnyVee · January 28, 2006 11:51AM

Unless Griffey gets some robotic parts and doesn't miss out on any more playing time, I don't think that any of those three make it into the HOF.

dallasactuary · January 28, 2006 11:56AM

I think Williams is probably a 50-50 shot if he does get to 2,500 hits in a couple of years, and a long shot if he doesn't.

Williams is essentially identical to Tony Perez as a hitter, and also like Perez played on great teams that won championships. Add in the fact that he is a Yankee and I think the odds that he will eventually get in the HOF are significantly higher than they probably ought to be. Given this year's inductee, one should never underestimate how low HOF standards can fall.

Now, if the question is SHOULD Williams get in the HOF, that's easy - no.

stown · January 28, 2006 12:03PM

I apologize for steering off-topic...

GoYankeesGo, could you please resize your signature line?

I could be mistaken but I believe your picture is more than the maximum allowed limit.

Your cooperation would be truly appreciated.

Edited to add:

While I believe Bernie was a good player, he does not deserve to be in the HOF.

bri2327 · January 28, 2006 12:17PM

Bernie had a great career, but not the 12-15 high end years that are expected of a hall of fame ceterfielder. What he did have were 6 or 7 great years that coincided with the Yankees postseason run. He was a standout,an integral part of of a dynasty, and one of the greatest center fielders in team history, but even that doesnt place him in the hall of fame category IMO.

having said that I will share this from my personal collection....

Axtell · January 28, 2006 7:17PM

<< Unless Griffey gets some robotic parts and doesn't miss out on any more playing time, I don't think that any of those three make it into the HOF. >>

Griffey Jr. could stop playing today and be in the hall on a first ballot in 5 years.

He owned the 90s, and never had that cloud of steroid use over his head. He dominated the game like few ever have, and did it for over a decade.

500 HRs, 10 straight gold gloves in CF, 10 straight all stars (11 overall), League MVP (and 4 other top 5 finishes), led the league 4 times in HRs, the list goes on and on and on.

softparade · January 29, 2006 12:08AM

<< You must be kidding me, Spammy.

Is Scott Brosius going to the HOF too? >>

No way Bernie is a Hall of Famer. A very good player who fit VERY WELL on a great run of championships. However, statements like the one quoted above are the reason this forum lacks good debate when it comes to Yankees/ Red Sox. Bernie Williams was as much a leader by example on the field as the Sox's Jason Varitek supposedlty is. Yet, we have to suffer through statements that are as blind and biased and without any real thought and then here about how the Yankee fan is that way. Awful ....

GoYankeesGo · January 29, 2006 12:20AM

Quite frankly I am quite suprized that so few have voted for Bernie. If you are not a Yankee fan and voted for Bernie please speak up. I am just very curious.

For the Hall of Fame Monitor Bernie ranks 133.0, quite a bit higher than the 100 average for a Hall of Famer. As far as the Hall of Fame Monitor Bernie ranks 46.4, right on the cusp of the average Hall of Famer number, 50. Yes Bernie does come up quite short in the Black and Gray ink categories.

Bernie Williams Statistics at baseball-reference.com

I think people are underestimating the fact that in this steroid crazy era Bernie will come up smelling like a rose as a non-user and great player. And I think people are ignoring the many post season records Bernie holds. For the last 11 years (12 years if you count the 1994 strike year), 1995-2005, Bernie was the one constant on the playoff making Yankees. For 12 of Bernie's 15 years until Jeter and Mariano came he was the man. When Jeter and Mo arrived he was still the man, but the quiet man because of his demeanor.

If Bernie does get in I think it will be a lot less controversial than some of the non-deserving Hall of Famers already in there.

Let's face it, if the Hall of Fame was not subjective and, for example, just chosen objectively by a computer, we would not be having these great discussions. There are Hall of Fames in Basketball, Football, and Hockey but most fans don't even debate about the issue, let alone know who resides in the respective Hall of Fame. This is one of the reasons I still think that baseball is America's past time. Someone one said that if a person has to ask whether a player should be in the HOF, then the player probably should not be. I would say at least 60% of the time a Hall of Fame candidate falls with in the "ask" category.

denwd1 · January 29, 2006 12:59AM

.....not a chance!

yawie99 · January 29, 2006 2:57AM

Griffey's a sure Hall of Famer. Bernie Williams isn't.

ctsoxfan · January 29, 2006 3:56AM

<< 

<< You must be kidding me, Spammy.

Is Scott Brosius going to the HOF too? >>

No way Bernie is a Hall of Famer. A very good player who fit VERY WELL on a great run of championships. However, statements like the one quoted above are the reason this forum lacks good debate when it comes to Yankees/ Red Sox. Bernie Williams was as much a leader by example on the field as the Sox's Jason Varitek supposedlty is. Yet, we have to suffer through statements that are as blind and biased and without any real thought and then here about how the Yankee fan is that way. Awful .... >>

Soft, I put as much thought into that question as it deserved. Same as most people who responded did. Do you really think Bernie Williams going to the Hall needs any thoughtful debate?

I like your comparison to Varitek, but Varitek is more than just a leader by example - he is the team captain as well. I don't have anything against Bernie Williams per se, but if all it takes to warrant Hall consideration is being a person with good character, decent stats, and playing as a part of a winning team, then you better make room for many more Williams-type players in there.

stown · January 29, 2006 4:30AM

<< I would say at least 60% of the time a Hall of Fame candidate falls with in the "ask" category. >>

Hence the reason only one player of 29 eligible will be inducted this year:

2006 Hall of Fame voting results

The complete vote (520 ballots, 390 to gain election, 26 to remain on ballot):
Player Votes %

Bruce Sutter 400 76.9%
Jim Rice 337 64.8%
Rich Gossage 336 64.6%
Andre Dawson 317 61.0%
Bert Blyleven 277 53.3%
Lee Smith 234 45.0%
Jack Morris 214 41.2%
Tommy John 154 29.6%
Steve Garvey 135 26.0%
Alan Trammell 92 17.7%
Dave Parker 75 14.4%
Dave Concepcion 65 12.5%
Don Mattingly 64 12.3%
Orel Hershiser 58 11.2%
Dale Murphy 56 10.8%
Albert Belle 40 7.7%
Will Clark 23 4.4%
Dwight Gooden 17 3.3%
Willie McGee 12 2.3%
Ozzie Guillen 5 1.0%
Hal Morris 5 1.0%
Gary Gaetti 4 0.8%
John Wetteland 4 0.8%
Rick Aguilera 3 0.6%
Gregg Jefferies 2 0.4%
Doug Jones 2 0.4%
Walt Weiss 1 0.2%
Gary DiSarcina 0 0.0%
Alex Fernandez 0 0.0%

source

Bernie has a couple of post season records but his overall stats are just average.

softparade · January 29, 2006 4:44AM

CT, that is fine. Bernie is no Hall of Famer, however, you grouped him in with Scott Brosius (a solid player) and certainly you were taking a shot at Williams. Whatever, no Yankee will rate in yours or Axtell's eyes. Also, for as solid a catcher as Varitek is, and the captain and all, be careful when you use "statistical evidence" to judge because Jason Varitek does not impress on the stat sheet. Bernie Williams meant as much to the Yankees as Varitek does to the Red Sox stats aside.

Axtell · January 29, 2006 5:01AM

spammy-

quit using bernie's postseason at bats as a reason to justify his induction. You are proving the point that the only reason you think he belongs is because he had the most chances and at bats in postseason history, because of his TEAM, not solely because of HIM.

Here's a telling stat from your beloved baseball-reference.com:

Similar Batters:

1. Bob Johnson (916)
2. Paul O'Neill (907)
3. Will Clark (904)
4. Bobby Bonilla (900)
5. Luis Gonzalez (898)
6. Ellis Burks (889)
7. Reggie Smith (888)
8. Fred Lynn (882)
9. Ken Boyer (875)
10. Del Ennis (874)

Hmm is anyone on that list deserving of the HoF?

Softie, you said:

<< Yet, we have to suffer through statements that are as blind and biased and without any real thought and then here about how the Yankee fan is that way. >>

I (and every other sane human being) would look at the title of this thread and think that he is blind and biased without any real thought. So why do you then condemn someone for making the joking question about Brosius? It's a joke of a question but raises a serious point - just because a stead player played for the yankees, should we put them in the hall? How many yankee apologists are trying to make their case for their player being in the hall? Thurman Munson, Bernie Williams, etc. etc. It gets to be pretty old.

Grow up yankee fans - just because a guy played with your team for a while and put up solid numbers DOESN'T make him a HoFer.

Bernie will see the hall like the rest of us - by buying a ticket.

softparade · January 29, 2006 5:09AM

Ax, where the hell did I say that Williams SHOULD be in the Hall? Where and when? I stated THREE times in this thread that he is no Hall of Famer.

I am combating the silly notion that you and a few others are trying to prove that Bernie Williams was if anything a average player. You are real quick to bring up Edmonds, Griffey, etc. Bernie Williams was down on the food chain. Ken Griffey Jr. stats aside was and still is a AWFUL team player. Moody, dark, distant .... certainly no help in a clubhouse. Yet the Yankee hater in you rates him FAR better than Williams who was a very good player on the field and a EXCELLENT presence in the clubhouse. During Williams peak years there is NO WAY I would replace him with Griffey.

GoYankeesGo · January 29, 2006 6:45AM

Hmmm...95th on this list right ahead of our friend "the cream" Gary Sheffield:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/hof_monitor.shtml

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1895380

halosfan · January 29, 2006 9:42AM

I'd put Griffey in ... I'd also take Edmonds over Bernie any day of the week!

Axtell · January 29, 2006 10:08AM

<< Ax, where the hell did I say that Williams SHOULD be in the Hall? Where and when? I stated THREE times in this thread that he is no Hall of Famer. >>

Obviously you are missing the point. You were whining that this forum lacks intelligence because ct asked if Brosius should be in the hall too. I was simply saying it's as silly to ask that question as it is to ask if Bernie is.

<< I am combating the silly notion that you and a few others are trying to prove that Bernie Williams was if anything a average player. >>

Sorry to break your yankee loving bubble, but he WAS ORDINARY in every sense of the term. He had the most postseason at bats...yippee!

<< Ken Griffey Jr. stats aside was and still is a AWFUL team player. Moody, dark, distant .... certainly no help in a clubhouse. Yet the Yankee hater in you rates him FAR better than Williams who was a very good player on the field and a EXCELLENT presence in the clubhouse. During Williams peak years there is NO WAY I would replace him with Griffey. >>

That's because he is LIGHT YEARS ahead of your boy bernie. The only comparison between them is they both play CF. THAT'S IT. Griffey smokes him in every possible category, and where do you come up with this crap he's an awful team player? Really? Links please, or is the Mariner hater in you showing through and you're talking out of your ass again?

You'd never replace Williams with Griffey? ARE YOU HIGH?

Axtell · January 29, 2006 10:09AM

What I want to know is what the 5 people who voted 'yes' were smoking when they voted? You must fess up to voting yes in this poll...I am guessing it's spammy and his 4 alt IDs.

pandrews · January 29, 2006 10:14AM

<< where the hell did I say that Williams SHOULD be in the Hall? >>

post #1, sentence #1..

errr, you said he "will" be there, anyway

softparade · January 29, 2006 11:00AM

<< 

<< where the hell did I say that Williams SHOULD be in the Hall? >>

post #1, sentence #1..

errr, you said he "will" be there, anyway >>

Hmmmm, post # 1, sentence # 1 says "No way Bernie is a Hall of Famer" One too many bong hits PA?

Ax, ordinary in every sense of the term?

You are a freaking nut case Ax! Next you are going to tell me that the little selfish Japanese outfielder you have on the Mariners would know what to do with an at-bat in a post season game. I would take Bernie at his peak over him too. OF course you wouldn't, you wouldn't know a championship caliber player if you happened to have one on your team.

pandrews · January 29, 2006 11:04AM

<< Hmmmm, post # 1, sentence # 1 says "No way Bernie is a Hall of Famer" One too many bong hits PA?

>>

oops, i mistook your post as Gemmy's.. it must be the damn NYG icon..

gemmy's first post says he'll be in the hall..

softparade · January 29, 2006 11:14AM

My Giants icon has to stay until the Super Bowl is over, still, don't know how you confused mine with the spamster. Bong hits?

pandrews · January 29, 2006 11:21AM

<< Bong hits?

>>

probably..

Axtell · January 29, 2006 11:46AM

<< 
Ax, ordinary in every sense of the term?

You are a freaking nut case Ax! Next you are going to tell me that the little selfish Japanese outfielder you have on the Mariners would know what to do with an at-bat in a post season game. I would take Bernie at his peak over him too. OF course you wouldn't, you wouldn't know a championship caliber player if you happened to have one on your team. >>

Yes. ORDINARY. Did I stutter, or is your comprehension of the english language that poor?

What exactly does Ichiro's race have to do with anything? You're a racist too? Why not just say Ichiro? And you'd be a fool to take Bernie over Ichiro, too. Ichiro batted .421 in his 2001 postseason (the mariner's only postseason since he joined the league), so your ridiculous 'would know what to do with an at-bat in a post season game'.

Spanky (and I call you that because you get spanked here all the time), do some reasearch before you open your trap again.

softparade · January 29, 2006 12:07PM

<< 

<< 
Ax, ordinary in every sense of the term?

You are a freaking nut case Ax! Next you are going to tell me that the little selfish Japanese outfielder you have on the Mariners would know what to do with an at-bat in a post season game. I would take Bernie at his peak over him too. OF course you wouldn't, you wouldn't know a championship caliber player if you happened to have one on your team. >>

Yes. ORDINARY. Did I stutter, or is your comprehension of the english language that poor?

What exactly does Ichiro's race have to do with anything? You're a racist too? Why not just say Ichiro? And you'd be a fool to take Bernie over Ichiro, too. Ichiro batted .421 in his 2001 postseason (the mariner's only postseason since he joined the league), so your ridiculous 'would know what to do with an at-bat in a post season game'.

Spanky (and I call you that because you get spanked here all the time), do some reasearch before you open your trap again. >>

So I name the over-rated slap hitter on the Mariners by his nationality and suddenly I am racist .... so typical ...... Big whoppie friggen dooo .... Ichiro hit a dismal .222 in the ALCS in which their "perfect season" was erased in grand style by the Yankees.

Axtell · January 29, 2006 3:02PM

Overrated slap hitter?

haha

Thanks for the good belly laugh before I go to bed...that will help me sleep better.

The funniest thing? You'd wet your panties if the yankees signed him, proclaiming him 'the greatest leadoff hitter ever!'

Typical yankee spin.

dallasactuary · January 29, 2006 3:34PM

I'm not sure why there is so much back-and-forth about whether Williams "should" make the HOF, since I don't think anyone has said that. If it's just because you enjoy arguing, then never mind, I understand that impulse all too well.

But the poll asked whether Williams "will" make the HOF, which is an entirely different question and one on which reasonable and intelligent people can have different opinions. As I said before, if Williams gets to 2,500 hits without plunging his BA into the toilet a reasonable case can be made that he "will" get there:

1. If he gets to 2,500 hits in two years he will have over 1,300 RBI, over 1,400 runs, 300 HR, 450 2B and a lifetime BA of .290 or so. I don't think there is a single 5-year-retired player who is not either already in the HOF or currently on the ballot who has those numbers.

2. For a six-year period (1997-2002) he was in the top-10 in the important batting categories more times than I am willing to count and he won 4 Gold Gloves. His career so far breaks down roughly as 6 years as ordinary, 3 years as very good and 6 years as one of the 10 best hitters in the league (and one of the two or three best in 1998).

3. There are several people in the HOF (even leaving aside relief pitchers, catchers and middle infielders) who it is impossible to claim were significantly better than Williams (George Kelly, Tony Perez, Orlando Cepeda, Richie Ashburn, Enos Slaughter, etc.)

4. He's a Yankee

5. He's got 4 WS rings

Don't get me wrong: the last two shouldn't mean a damn thing, the third one shouldn't either or the HOF will eventually become meaningless, the first point is really just another way of looking at the third point, and the second point ought not be enough to get someone in the HOF.

BUT, a Yankee RBI-guy with 4 championships is rarely kept out of the Hall when the voters can point at players already in who have worse or similar numbers. I'll be as disappointed as most of the rest of you if he does get in, but I won't be at all surprised.

P.S. I've argued many times that Jim Rice is overrated and doesn't belong in the HOF, but even I will admit that Rice was better than Williams.

zef204 · January 30, 2006 2:25AM

<<

.....not a chance! >>

My thoughts exactly.

onlyanumber · January 30, 2006 2:36AM

I voted Yes, partially for my bias for the Yankees but also partially because of other reasons.

In the steroid era, guys like Bernie will get the recognition for being perceived as clean.

If Rizzuto can get in, then any Yankee legend (and yes, Bernie will be considered a Yankee legend) can get in.

He does have borderline stats to make the hall, and has the rings to boot. He won't be voted in by the writers, but the Vets committee may one day need a live body when there is no once else voted in.

But then again, I believe Mattingly and Paul O'Neil will make the Hall as well--something about pinstripes and the Vets committee.

fiveniner · January 30, 2006 2:56AM

Bernie was a solid player for sure however if he goes then Gil Hodges and Minnie Minoso go in too.

ctsoxfan · January 30, 2006 3:03AM

I really can't believe anyone is comparing Berine Williams to Ken Griffey Jr.

Griffey Jr. is a lock first ballot HOFer. Williams is a nice player, who was in the right place at the right time. In fact, I proved earlier in this thread that the relatively anonymous Jim Edmonds has much better stats than Williams - yet, I don't see Cardinal fans on here clamoring for Jim Edmonds to be in the Hall.

Ichiro is the best lead-off hitter currently playing. Another fact that I can't believe a knowledgeable baseball fan would dispute.

Skinpinch · January 30, 2006 3:14AM

Excellent player. How good was he among his peers? Looking at wins above replacement level player, here are some contemporaries...

Griffey 110

Edmonds 86
B. Williams 84

Finley 79
Lofton 77
Burks 76

A. Jones 71**

Grissom 66
B. Anderson 58

Damon 48
Beltran 41

Pierre 19

Typically, all the Hall of Famers at any postion are over the 100 mark, even in the tougher eras to dominate in. This method is poor for cross era comparisons, but does the trick for in-era. It doesn't measure any men on hitting. It also doesn't measure the dominance factor, but Williams wasn't close to Koufaxian dominance, so it is a moot point here. Griffey is certainly better, both in dominance and career wise, and Andruw Jones will pass him by a bunch. Edmonds will also finish higher. In the end, he will be closer to the Finley/Burks/Lofton group as opposed to the Griffey/A. Jones group. I don't know where Edmonds will finish.

This method really values longevity as it is vs. replacement level player, as opposed to LEAGUE AVERAGE player. It does not value dominance factor. Compilers do better in this method.

In the end, it all depends on how big you want to make the Hall of Fame. If Bernie goes in...so do a bunch of other just as deserving or more desrving players who are equally on the cusp(from his era and other eras).

Coinhusker1 · January 30, 2006 4:03AM

<< Will Bernie Williams make the Hall of Fame? >>

You cannot be serious!!!

Onlypsahockey · January 30, 2006 8:28AM

Will Bernie Williams make the Hall of Fame?

Yes, he'll be carrying Arod's purse for him!

Bob C.

softparade · January 30, 2006 9:57AM

<< Ichiro is the best lead-off hitter currently playing. Another fact that I can't believe a knowledgeable baseball fan would dispute. >>

Well hell, I suppose a "knowlegable" baseball fan would not be a sucker to believe that a 26 year old MAN with 3 big league wins is the same UNIVERSE of a young Roger Clemens. Go figure

GoYankeesGo · January 30, 2006 10:45AM

Some people on this board mentioned that since Bernie is a Yankee that would be an advantage as far as getting into the Hall of Fame. I beg to differ. Many fans as well as sportscasters hate the Yankees and for a Yankee to get in they would have to walk on water as they will be compared to former Yankee greats Ruth, Gehrig, and DiMaggio. Just witness this board. For example, Axtell lives and breathes hatred of the Yankees every waking hour of each and every day.

dallasactuary · January 30, 2006 1:40PM

As far as I know, Axtell doesn't get to vote on who gets in the HOF. The people who do have enshrined Earle Combs, Waite Hoyt, Catfish Hunter, Tony Lazzeri, Herb Pennock, Phil Rizzuto, and Red Ruffing. Move those seven to the Washington/Minnesota franchise and not one of them would be in the HOF - nor should they be no matter how good or bad their teammates happened to be. Roy White, Bobby Murcer and Mel Stottlemyre were as good as any of them but they didn't get to play with Ruth, Gehrig or DiMaggio; if they had, they'd probably be in the HOF, too.

And I don't mean to single out the Yankees; the Dodgers, Giants and Cardinals also have more than their share of bottom-tier HOFers, because they also have more than their share of pennants and Series.

ctsoxfan · January 30, 2006 1:58PM

<< 

<< Ichiro is the best lead-off hitter currently playing. Another fact that I can't believe a knowledgeable baseball fan would dispute. >>

Well hell, I suppose a "knowlegable" baseball fan would not be a sucker to believe that a 26 year old MAN with 3 big league wins is the same UNIVERSE of a young Roger Clemens. Go figure >>

This isn't my personal belief, in fact - I only mentioned this because it has been mentioned in the Boston press several times when referring to Papelbon, and I wanted to convey the fact that the guy is a top quality pitching prospect.

Hey, didn't Joe Torre (!) say that Robinson Cano reminded him of a young Rod Carew (stop laughing, it's true!). This is the same type of hyperbole, but when it comes from the Yankees - it's okay?

Axtell · January 30, 2006 4:37PM

<< Some people on this board mentioned that since Bernie is a Yankee that would be an advantage as far as getting into the Hall of Fame. I beg to differ. Many fans as well as sportscasters hate the Yankees and for a Yankee to get in they would have to walk on water as they will be compared to former Yankee greats Ruth, Gehrig, and DiMaggio. Just witness this board. For example, Axtell lives and breathes hatred of the Yankees every waking hour of each and every day. >>

Spammy-

you think I give the yankees (or you, or softy) a passing thought once I close this forum?

You, sir, are sorely mistaken. Please quit that yankee arrogance that makes you and other yankee 'fans' think the world revolves around 'your' team, and that people are hating the yankees 24 hours a day.

You think there's an anti-yankee conspiracy by some voters? hahahahahahahaha That's the funniest thing I've heard in a long, long time.

AndyNC2005 · January 30, 2006 4:57PM

Hit 30 or more home runs once and has 275 for his career. Not numbers that get you into the hall. He is a player that greatly benefited from the Yankees post season runs.
Good player, but being a good player is not a players ticket to the hall.

Andy

Will Bernie Williams make the Hall of Fame?

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