Tiffany & Co. is suing eBay for facilitating the sale of counterfeit items. Ooh!

csw

... as reported in today's New York Times:

http://nytimes.com/2006/01/29/technology/29ebay.html?hp&ex=1138510800&en=ddaf3038d2c2ed82&ei=5094&partner=homepage

lordmarcovan

Interesting.

VamGuy

Linked

PerryHall

Good. It's about time. I hope Tiffany wins big time.

pontiacinf

this battle has been going on for many years, so the nyt is kinda slow on its reporting

DennisH

Oh my!

segoja

Looks like E-Bay has the same rap no matter the industry.

ScarsdaleCoin

old news....ebay uses the excuse that they are just a newspaper classifed and not responsible.....hmmmmm

relayer

Yes, this has been news for a while (to everybody except at the NY times I guess).

But what is interesting is that they want to punch a hole in eBay's "just a venue" defense.

A lot of manufacturer's have staff searching eBay to protect their copyrights, brand names and products. They work with eBay to get the listings pulled, but it costs them money to hire people who search for knock-offs so they're tired of paying for it.

If they win the suit, eBay will have to take responsibility for auctions that sell fakes. From Tiffany's to coins.

eBay not gonna like that

Conder101

I think you "punch a hole in the only a venue" argument you will see the end of eBay, or at least the end of it as we know it. There is no way they can personally examine 60 million auctions, nor can they have experts on every possible catagory item being sold. They can't just pull items on someone elses say-so, and they can't afford to be liable if someone does sell a fake because they are no longer just a venue. About the only way I could see that they could continue to operate would be to have every seller post say oh a $10,000 bond just in case there were complaints. And of course even higher bonds if you want to sell higher value items.

No, as much as we may dislike the fraud we see on eBay I would not like to see eBay lose the suit and lose the "Just a venue" argument.

And they are right this is old news, the Tiffany's suit has been going on for over a year.

ms70

<< <i>ebay uses the excuse that they are just a newspaper classified and not responsible >>



I mean really, if you think about it, this is all eBay truly is. If you buy something through mail order in CoinWorld & it turns out to be a fake, would you be suing CoinWorld? No.
If you bought a diamond at a flea market & it was actually a CZ, would you hold the property owner responsible? No. So I don't see what's different about eBay. Just because
it's the internet really shouldn't make them more liable.

Should they help combat the problem? I think so & I wish they would do a better job. BUT....... By trying to combat the problem is eBay screwing themselves legally by inferring
it's their responsibility? That's some legal food for thought. I would not want to see the end of eBay. My collection would not be as big or as nice without the opportunities that
I have found there. I ask plenty of questions & never buy raw as far as coins go. As far as other stuff? It's buyer beware & I have to accept the risk of my own actions. If I'm
not sure about something I just don't buy it.

Coindexter

It is the responsibility of every participant in a free market to police their own transactions, in my opinion. Ebay is the closest thing to a free market this country has seen in quite some time. Personally, I feel that people need to look out for themselves, which is why I pay close attention when people out bad sellers, post bogus auctions and provide valuable analytical techniques about auctions here. I actually hope ebay wins this law suit, though I wouldn't mind seeing them take warnings from potential bidders a bit more seriously.

cho10

<< <i>

<< <i>ebay uses the excuse that they are just a newspaper classified and not responsible >>

I mean really, if you think about it, this is all eBay truly is. If you buy something through mail order in CoinWorld & it turns out to be a fake, would you be suing CoinWorld? No. If you bought a diamond at a flea market & it was actually a CZ, would you hold the property owner responsible? No. So I don't see what's different about eBay. Just because it's the internet really shouldn't make them more liable. Should they help combat the problem? I think so & I wish they would do a better job. BUT....... By trying to combat the problem is eBay screwing themselves legally by inferring it's their responsibility? That's some legal food for thought. I would not want to see the end of eBay. My collection would not be as big or as nice without the opportunities that I have found there. I ask plenty of questions & never buy raw as far as coins go. As far as other stuff? It's buyer beware & I have to accept the risk of my own actions. If I'm not sure about something I just don't buy it. >>



I buy and sell on EBay fairly frequently.
The most poignant phrase is where it says "If you buy something through mail order in CoinWorld & it turns out to be a fake, would you be suing CoinWorld?"
I tend to shy away from the hype loaded offerings I sometimes see on EBay because I don't trust sales offerings where quality gets replaced with hype.
"Buyer beware" is about all you can achieve by promoting more care and awareness on the part of the buying public..
Possibly EBay could add panels of experts to which people such as the members of this message board can appeal when an obviously bogus 1804 dollar gets offered.
But then who will control what those experts are doing?
Will an "expert" excuse him/herself if somehow connected with a disputed offering?
And how will EBay recruit them?
I think the Tiffany suit is more interesting and important because it draws attention to the problem of fakes and counterfeits.
Such bogus offerings are known about by some but frequently ignored buy the bargain hunting public.
More than the monetary compensation that Tiffany & Co will probably be awarded if they win, the public should have more defenders and promoters of a fair market place than exists today.
Free market should not mean free to cheat.

majorbigtime

Hey, Ebay's obly a venue [sic].

AndyNC2005

At some point, "venues" must take some responsibility for their sellers ads. Would Coin World be allowed to accept ads for child porn, stolen items, body parts, bombs, etc. Of course not, well why is there no responsibilty to weed out these other items. I think better controls on their sellers is a good place to start. I think they should also do more to educate buyers, making them aware of some of the potentials for fraud on Ebay. You can rest assured that if you were running a Flea Market and it was brought to your attention that some one was selling beer to minors, and you took no action to stop this, that you would be held liable in a court of law.

I would also like to see them get rid of "Grab Bag", "Mystery" lots, shipping scams, anything from China (Until they get their act together), private feedback, dealers with feedback below 99%, and more.

Andy

fc

ha, you might as well wish mcdonalds will admit to selling greasy,
low nutrition, suger enriched, crap to your children.

Longacre

I read the article. Only the filthy, stinkin' lawyers will come out as winners on this nonsense.

RedTiger

The case is back in the news as their court date approaches

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20071113/tiffany-tif-and-ebay-ebay-face-off-in-court-over-counterfeit-items.htm
link

...if they came from eBay in recent years, there's a 95% chance they're fakes. According to a recent BloggingStocks posting by Zac Bissonnette, an investigation several years ago showed that just 5% of all merchandise billed on the auction site as "Tiffany and Co." items were legitimate.

>>>

Will coins get to that same day, when counterfeits are more common than the real thing? Another ten or twenty years of tech advancements and virtually perfect fakes are going to be here. Is the coin market ready for perfect fakes in perfectly faked old time slabs? Will it be a return of the 1960s when a huge percentage of the key date coins in certain coin shops were fakes?

mrearlygold

<< <i>The case is back in the news as their court date approaches

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20071113/tiffany-tif-and-ebay-ebay-face-off-in-court-over-counterfeit-items.htm
link

...if they came from eBay in recent years, there's a 95% chance they're fakes. According to a recent BloggingStocks posting by Zac Bissonnette, an investigation several years ago showed that just 5% of all merchandise billed on the auction site as "Tiffany and Co." items were legitimate.

>>>

q]

Wow! That's quite a statement to make.

Bochiman

<< <i>Good. It's about time. I hope Tiffany wins big time. >>



Old thread, but, I don't. I would hope it scares ebay enough to work on things but I hate lawsuits and think 90%+ are stupid and should be thrown out.

notwilight

This explains ebay cracking down on coins. If they're getting sued here they are afraid it will be just a matter of time before they get sued for counterfeit coins. Thus they are over-reacting and taking down any auction that is questioned. Thus they can say in court how difficult they got on counterfeiting in 2007, to the point of losing coin seller customers and losing significant revenue on refunded fees and lost sales. Now it all makes sense. --jerry

coindeuce

I hope Tiffany wins by way of a huge settlement. If a competing entity decided to develop and to start selling a software program that ultimately was a duplicate of eBay, just WTF do you think eBay would do? Tiffany has a fiduciary duty to protect their trademarked product in the same manner that eBay would protect their proprietary software.

pharmer

eBay can't win. First they don't try hard enough, now they try to hard. Since when was perfection promised. Why is it expected in so much of life these days. Where have people gotten the impression that utopia is just around the corner, if they only bite the hand that feeds them. It's insane.

19Lyds

<< <i>old news....ebay uses the excuse that they are just a newspaper classifed and not responsible.....hmmmmm >>



I don't think this excuse would stand up in court especially since they have a counterfeit coin policy which they enforce vigorously!

Of course, I'm certain that the Tiffany Attorney's have a handle on that one!

DJCoinz

I hope tiffany wins, but if they do we can expect ebay fees to go sky-high(er).

prooflike

ebay may only be a venue (listing fees), but they are profiting from the sale of counterfeit goods (final value fees.)

that may be the fine line....

kinfd of like saying, the big drug lords are just a venue because they never actually handle the drugs.

Hugegut

This lawsuit isn't going anywhere. Ebay shuts down any auction Tiffany has objections to. Sellers can be kicked off for repeatedly posting fake items, and they give buyers recourse via the "item not as described" process. I don't see what else ebay can do.

Zoins

<< <i>At some point, "venues" must take some responsibility for their sellers ads. Would Coin World be allowed to accept ads for child porn, stolen items, body parts, bombs, etc. Of course not, well why is there no responsibilty to weed out these other items. I think better controls on their sellers is a good place to start. I think they should also do more to educate buyers, making them aware of some of the potentials for fraud on Ebay. You can rest assured that if you were running a Flea Market and it was brought to your attention that some one was selling beer to minors, and you took no action to stop this, that you would be held liable in a court of law. >>

Are you saying eBay allows traffic in body parts?

Zoins

<< <i>I hope Tiffany wins by way of a huge settlement. If a competing entity decided to develop and to start selling a software program that ultimately was a duplicate of eBay, just WTF do you think eBay would do? Tiffany has a fiduciary duty to protect their trademarked product in the same manner that eBay would protect their proprietary software. >>

Umm, if a competing entity decided to develop and start selling a software program that ultimately was a duplicate of eBay, as long as proprietary information wasn't used, I think there's nothing eBay could do except compete in the marketplace.

You really cannot compare eBay to Tiffany because eBay is a SaaS company, they don't sell their software. A better comparison is with Microsoft and the counterfeit versions of Windows out there.

Zoins

<< <i>This lawsuit isn't going anywhere. Ebay shuts down any auction Tiffany has objections to. Sellers can be kicked off for repeatedly posting fake items, and they give buyers recourse via the "item not as described" process. I don't see what else ebay can do. >>

So this is like Tiffany wanting to shut down public streets because someone is selling counterfeit Tiffany merchandise on the streets even though the policy stop everyone Tiffany finds and compensates the victims? If this is a valid analogy, good luck.

Bochiman

Everyone that wants something to compete with ebay will be crying if that happens, imho, as too many fractured entities will exist.
Where will the multitudes of buyers go? They will go to different ones.

If you list one on site you cannot (should not) ethically list on another site at the same time (auction style), so, do you really think that customers will go to each and every site all the time? If so, you are on something!

You may not like ebay, you may not like the fees, but just take it out of the picture and look at everyone trying their own auction site. Now, go see how much you actually sell, or can find to buy there.

Too many people just want to gangrape ebay on this one.