The Two Toughest Mainstream Football Cards from the 1960s in PSA 8 or Better

Davalillo

In looking through my football sets from the 60s and updating the pops, two cards stood out as being the toughest in psa 8 or better:

1966 Topps Checklist--no 8s or 9s graded and just 3 psa 7s.
1960 Fleer Woodward-#84--pop 1 in 8 and pop 1 in 9.

Mike Thomas of NearMint Cards is king of the 1960 Fleer set--Mike--those are two recently graded cards aren't they?

On the 66s--Fuzz, Art, Mike Couldabeena--anybody with thoughts on the checklist?

Wolfbear--what do you think?

Dav

nearmint

<< <i>1960 Fleer Woodward-#84--pop 1 in 8 and pop 1 in 9.

Mike Thomas of NearMint Cards is king of the 1960 Fleer set--Mike--those are two recently graded cards aren't they? >>



Yes, in fact there wasn't even a 7 until recently. I just added the 9 to my collection, so I'm finally at 100% 8 or better.

Mike

Davalillo

Mike,

CONGRATS!!!

Where did you find the 9 and do you know where the 8 resides?

Jim

Mantlefan

I was always frustrated that there are no PSA 9 cards of #1 Johnny Unitas in the 1960 Topps set.

nearmint

<< <i>CONGRATS!!!

Where did you find the 9 and do you know where the 8 resides? >>



Thanks, Jim. I now have two 8+ sets, both my birth year.

I did an ebay buy-it-now to pick up the 9. I don't know where the 8 is, but since it's a fresh one, maybe it will pop up on ebay sometime soon.

Mike

macpsa

For two of the sets that I collect, 67 T FB and 63 T FB, I would say # 131 Speedy Duncan (67 T FB) and # 122 Ed Brown (63 T FB).

Mike

wolfbear

Concur with macpsa. For the 1963 Topps # 122 Ed Brown there are only 2 eights with none higher.

A couple of others that I know of :

1964 Topps # 107 - Smokey Stover - 1 eight with none higher.
1964 Topps # 150 - Art Powell - 2 eights with none higher.
1962 Fleer # 1 - Billy Lott - 3 eights with none higher.

JasP24

How about some tough to find Rookie HOFers from 60's football....

1962 Fleer #16 Billy Shaw-- 18 PSA 8's with none higher
1965 Topps#46 Willie Brown-- 11 PSA 8's with 2 higher
1966 Philadelphia#134 Bob Brown-- 5 PSA 8's with none higher
1967 Philadelphia#43 Leroy Kelly-- 10 PSA 8's with none higher
1967 Philadelphia#165 Jackie Smith--15 PSA 8's with 2 higher
1967 Philadelphia#178 Dave Wilcox-- 13 PSA 8's with 6 higher

Less than 20 of these in PSA 8 or better condition and these are HOF RCs! With 46 people now collecting the HOF RC set (and 12 of them have been updated in the last few days) the competition for those bad boys listed above is ROUGH...

There's got to be more out there that just hasnt been graded yet...Where are they????

Jason

shouldabeena10

I imagine if a 1966 straight 8 checklist ever shows up ... you'll see some crazy bids flying around. I got all excited over a (close to centered) raw one I saw on Yahoo about a year ago, but when I got him to send me an enlarged scan, it turned out to have a couple of erased checkmarks on it, along with corners that looked more like a 6/7 than a 7/8.

The 60's are certainly neat sets to collect as it seems that each year has it's own "issues" that make some of them tuff to find... in 61 you have coin rubs and ink bleeding issues, in 62 it's the black borders, 63 multi-colored borders, 64 the stupid off centered stars, 65 the tall size and centering, 66 the woodgrains, and of course all the different Philly and Fleer stock issues too. If you didn't know any better, you'd almost think they did it on purpose... just to mess with us!

Also, in keeping with my ongoing oddball theme ... you could certainly add some of those SP Packers Lake to Lake's to the list of cards that are "impossible to find" in high grade.

Mike

SKINSFAN

The 66 checklist is for sure a tough 1 but also try to find a 67 philly Tom Matte #21 only 4 ever graded all are PSA 6!!, The 67 phillys have the most tough cards from any year i have tried from the 60,s although many 67,s are easy bottom line there are just more tough cards then any other year. The 63 issue mention by Wolf is also a bear (NO PUN INTENDED WOLF ) having a good chunk of cards that are very tough as well.

Southerncards

I have to agree that the 60 Topps #1 Unitas is a super tough one. Bad centering and that fuzzy look cause cards to look like this.....

aro13

Interesting PSA pops on some of these football cards. I do not actively collect football like I do the other three sports, but I am curious. I know for hockey many people in Canada have not submitted their cards for grading because it is not that easy to submit. This results in some low pop cards. Also, the hockey print runs are pretty low compared to baseball. Why are there so many low pop football cards, especially the Hall of Famers?

shouldabeena10

<< <i>Why are there so many low pop football cards, especially the Hall of Famers? >>



Because Skinsfan keeps ruining them all!

No lie! He brings this big batch of 1960's cards over to my office a few days ago. He asks me to look at them because he's thinking of submitting some. The first box I look in has ciggarette ashes all over the place, then as I pull the cards out ... lint, dust and dog hair is literally falling off of them.

I start pointing out tiny printing flaws on his cards, but each time we pull the card out of the sleeve to examine it closer ... it turns out to be a little chunk of tobacco or dirt. I suggested that maybe he should refrain from smoking, scratching his head, and playing with the dog while he's sleeving his cards.

Then the big oaf comes into my card room, proceeds to lean up against some boxes I have stacked up, and knocks about 100 of my cards off the top of it. Slabs and card-savers go flying all over the place ... he's stepping on half of them, spilling his coffee, and trying to pick them up all at the same time.

It was truly one of the most comical things I've ever seen, and I've now been forced to ban him from my card room.

I'm certain that Art Miller is single-handedly responsible for about half of the missing and low pop football cards in the hobby.

Mike

JasP24

<< <i>Interesting PSA pops on some of these football cards. I do not actively collect football like I do the other three sports, but I am curious. I know for hockey many people in Canada have not submitted their cards for grading because it is not that easy to submit. This results in some low pop cards. Also, the hockey print runs are pretty low compared to baseball. Why are there so many low pop football cards, especially the Hall of Famers? >>



Ill give you a few reasons...

1- Lower production run..Football was less popular, hence they printed fewer cards.
2- Bad quality right out of the factory.
3- These cards werent considered valuable by most at the time so they werent cared for/protected.
4- Many baseball collectors still dont know the value of some of these cards. Ask 10 non-vintage football guys who Bob Brown or Dave Wilcox is and they wont have a clue.

All of the above reasons are pushing vintage/low pop football prices WELL above what the SMR says...Bob Brown PSA 8 is worth what $25 in the SMR???Yeah ok..Only one I ever saw on ebay went for over $300...Next one will probably go over $600 much like the PSA 8 1967 Leroy Kelly that recently sold. And i don't see any reason for the prices to come down...With demand continually rising for vintage football rookies, the supply is no where near the demand..

Jason