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55 Bowmans

Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
in PSA Set Registry Forum
Has anybody noticed how many high grade 55 Bowman cards in GAI holders are around? I heard a dealer at the last White Plains show at some beauties.
I love candy cards
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    WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I heard that when you try to cross them to PSA (cracked out of course) they come back as EVIDENCE of TRIMMING. Why bother taking a chance with Global if that is happening?

    Steve




    I heard a dealer at the last White Plains show at some beauties.


    ??
    Good for you.
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    I think the folks at GAI are gonna slab anything nowadays ... they have to pay the rent somehow. I heard they spent alot of time at someone's house ... maybe they can crash there.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I heard that when you try to cross them to PSA (cracked out of course) they come back as EVIDENCE of TRIMMING. >>



    thats what i heard..

    ·p_A·
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    MachodocMachodoc Posts: 541 ✭
    I have firsthand experience of that with both 1955 Bowman and 1971 Topps baseball cards. All GAI cards were bought on the secondary market, cracked out, and then submitted to PSA. Every single card came back evidence of trim.

    SW
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    I believe most of the ultra-high grade cards in GAI holders have come from Gary Moser who told me he got them from a long-time collector. Gary seems to be a GAI guy now.

    Marc--whats your view on the high-grade GAIs around
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    jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,750 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Gary seems to be a GAI guy now. >>



    What happened to GEM grading? Did he close up shop or is he still doing it?
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
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    Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
    That is who was in White Plains. He had some nice PSA cards as well.
    I love candy cards
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    mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Marc--whats your view on the high-grade GAIs around >>



    Jim - would be happy to discuss on the phone with you
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Thanks Marc--e-mail me your work and home number again pls.
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    theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭
    High grade 55 bowmans in GAI holders? Imagine what they would cost if you had to pay for the entire card...
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Moser is easy to deal with ... he'll take a little off the top (of the card that is ... ) bottom and sides if he needs too!

    Whoooo ... it seems that just under a year ago one of the most advanced collectors around was considering crossing his PSA collection over to them. I would imagine that he is happy he didn't as well as wishing he never bragged about the GAI guys being over his house and how many bumps he would get.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Ah yes, the daily bash GAI thread. Where would this board be without such posts?
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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    pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Ah yes, the daily bash GAI thread. Where would this board be without such posts? >>



    just discussing facts, and the facts are that a number of 55 bowman GAI cards were cracked out and ALL came back as trimmed..
    ·p_A·
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    theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭


    << <i>Ah yes, the daily bash GAI thread. Where would this board be without such posts? >>



    Too bad all those cards came back trimmed -- where we the hobby be without such actions?
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Agreed. It is too bad a guy can trim cards and have them graded. There are less legit 55 Bowmans (among other cards) on the market because of this.

    Oh wait, I almost forgot .... those guys are the BEST GRADERS IN THE HOBBY, so I guess that is okay then!
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    AaronmanAaronman Posts: 173
    Wasn't there a 55 Bowman "mini" set that was produced?

    Looking for well centered 1958 topps baseball psa 8 and up. Also dying for a 70 Aaron All Star in PSA 9.
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Wasn't there a 55 Bowman "mini" set that was produced?

    Yes. In 2005 ....
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    AaronmanAaronman Posts: 173
    I'm surprised there are companies out there that Grade Altered Items!
    Looking for well centered 1958 topps baseball psa 8 and up. Also dying for a 70 Aaron All Star in PSA 9.
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    RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Well, fine, bash GAI if you must, but let's not pretend that PSA or other grading companies are bulletproof. All of them make mistakes. It gets tiresome to see potshots at other grading companies.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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    Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
    Your right it just seems like GAI grades an inordinate number of suspect cards. For a start up such as GAI these obvious errors will be impossible to overcome.
    I love candy cards
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    theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭
    1 out of 8 is a mistake.

    8 out of 8 is a freaking trend.
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey
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    lowstartmicklowstartmick Posts: 304
    GAI is teetering on the brink of being the next PRO.
    Whoever said we wash away with the rain ?
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    MantlefanMantlefan Posts: 1,079 ✭✭
    1 out of 8 is a mistake.

    8 out of 8 is a freaking trend.

    8 out of 8 is freaking disaster!
    Frank

    Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
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    BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Oh wait, I almost forgot .... those guys are the BEST GRADERS IN THE HOBBY, so I guess that is okay then >>



    That's right! When the best grader in the hobby works for GAI, you have nothing to worry about. All other facts, inclinations, gut-feels, etc. are now irrelevant, so stop worrying.

    Cross those psa's with possible bump-ups.......................NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1420sports: Does GAI come to your house or party if you ask?
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    Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
    At this point what would you rather have GAI 9 or PSA 8??
    I love candy cards
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    At this point what would you rather have GAI 9 or PSA 8??

    A PSA 7 would be fine. I am sure there are many legit cards in GAI holders, but why even take the gamble. I don't think the resale value could even come close to PSA or SGC PreWar, and I think the half points were only "bumps" given with a wink as if to say, "Hey, we'll take care of you" ...

    Bill, nope. I am not an "advanced" collector however.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭
    Advanced.
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    I feel bad for Marc but I also feel confident that GAI will make him whole.

    I would point out to people that grading services can disagree if a card has been altered--one can get 10 people in a room and 5 can say a card is altered and 5 can say its legit.

    Grading services can even disagree with themselves--I have multiple submitted cards to 2 grading services--and have had them come back as trimmed the first time--graded the second time.

    Mike Baker is a quality grader and a quality guy--I don't believe that he is intentionally grading cards he believes have been altered--and if you surveyed the top 25 national dealers not one of them would believe it either.

    Jim


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    19541954 Posts: 2,866 ✭✭✭
    Jim,
    I don't need a response from my email. I have gotten what I need from another collector. Thanks for the help.

    Shane
    Looking for high grade rookie cards and unopened boxes/cases
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Mike Baker is a quality grader and a quality guy--I don't believe that he is intentionally grading cards he believes have been altered--and if you surveyed the top 25 national dealers not one of them would believe it either.

    especially for those getting the patented bump ... GAI has bills and employees to pay.

    I do not know who is on this list of "25", or the criteria needed to make it, but do all of these dealers use GAI for more than 10% of their inventory? I knew of a collector who insisted they were better than PSA, but was really crying wolf. Or so it appears ....

    Only met Mike once and he seemed like a really nice guy. Too bad he works for a sinking ship.
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    I'm curious..........how many 'top' national dealers sell GAI cards almost exclusively - say 80% or more of their inventory on a consistent basis?

    Mike Baker may be the greatest grader on the planet but suffice to say only 2 grading companies that will make inroads now and in the future in vintage card grading - PSA and SGC. There are just too many red flags alongside of GAI products. PSA and SGC are not perfect, but both share the best of things to date. I like the efforts SGC is currently engaged in. Seems solid and sound imo.
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    RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Davalillo is correct on all counts.
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Davalillo is correct on all counts.

    he is correct on both statements. I agree with these:
    Grading services can even disagree with themselves
    Mike Baker is a quality grader and a quality guy

    But saying the top 25 dealers who say Baker is tops doesn't equate to GAI being more credible in most collectors eyes.

    Who are these 25 dealers Ron? Stay classy, and let me know
    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    The reason GAI and the clowns "across the street" can't catch trim jobs is simple. They never invested in state of the art technology like PSA did. While those other jokers trying to determine trimming with the human eyeball, PSA is utilizing the latest in robotics, lasers and machine scanned calibrators to detect variances in size up to 1/10000 of an inch!!! It's why PSA is the ONLY name you can trust when it comes to detecting restoration. The TRAINED and CERTIFIED experts at PSA are the professions in this arena. I make mine PSA and that's why you should too! image
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
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    lowstartmicklowstartmick Posts: 304
    If you surveyed 25 of the nations top dealers I'm certain they would all prefer to have PSA 9's in their inventory or on their tables than GAI 9's or even 9.5's. In addition, I'm certain none of them would pay the same scale for GAI as they would for a comparable PSA grade. Especially with the ugly stigma of "The Friendly Bump" attached the GAI name.
    Mike Baker may be the nicest guy in the world and a skilled grader but the boys at SGC and PSA are head and shoulders above him. GAI is seemingly a haphazardly run outfit from shoddy pack grading, lost items, backroom deals,empty promises, jerk jobs and now the alarmingly suspect card grading.
    It is apparent that Rocchi and Baker overestimated just how far their names and the work they did with PSA would take them.
    The ship is taking on water at a rapid rate and in the eyes of many ( I would even venture to say most) COLLECTORS , you know, the guys like us that support the hobby see GAI quickly becoming a non entity in this hobby. The chance for them to make in roads have passed them by.
    PSA is not without faults and even they have a few skeletons hanging in the closet but in comparison GAI is starting to look like a boneyard.
    Whoever said we wash away with the rain ?
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    Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
    As GAI prices begin to sink, what little nice cards they do have graded will be cracked out and sent to PSA or SGC. What will be left will be complete trash. What is the motivation to send them a card?
    I love candy cards
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    What is the motivation to send them a card?

    greed. they seem to grade everything nowadays, as I am sure their financial backing is growing impatient.

    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
    What happened to Mikeschmidt that he needs to be made whole?
    I love candy cards
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Thanks Ron,

    Of course its right.

    I remember when Dave Forman bought SGC and I said Dave is a quality guy and will build a great company. The naysayers all came out and said Gary Moser this and that and it would never happen. I think Dave is doing a wonderful job.

    Building through dealers is not the way I would have built GAI but I think they will succeed as well. They have a cadre of dealers that they are close friends with and who believe that Baker is the best grader in the hobby.

    One of the interesting things about this board is you don't have to know much to post and have an opinion. I happen to know who the financial backers of GAI are and what theit view of the situation is.

    Lets see if the poster who made the claim that GAI's financial backers are growing impatient has any justification for that claim.
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    BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I happen to know who the financial backers of GAI are and what theit view of the situation is. >>


    Oh.......that makes everything just fine. GAI then isn't and can't be a sinking ship because the backers know the situation and must have the latest in water-bailing technology. Everything is fine........full steam ahead!!





    << <i>One of the interesting things about this board is you don't have to know much to post and have an opinion. >>


    Dav, you are 100% correct with this statement. All it takes is just a touch of common sense and rational thought to see the reality of GAI. But because anybody can post on these boards, common sense and rationality are sometimes in very short supply.
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Your partner in attacks alleged that the GAI financial backers were going impatient. I doubt that he has a clue who the financial buyers are and what the p&l looks like.
    You may be right that GAI will go under--I think they will be fine.

    I hate to have to educate you on this board but if you know the weekly revenue trend and what you need to be profitable you know a lot more than someone who makes unsubstantiated statements.

    You have more instant edits than Murcerfan. My advice is think before you post a personal attackand not after.
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    BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    Jim,
    The only difference between us is that I will edit my spelling - which is something you don't do. If you want to label me with the Murcerfan edit label, that's fine. I prefer to get the spelling right so people don't have to figure out what words like "theit" mean.

    See, you and I aren't that much different and we'd be even more alike if you used the edit function.

    As far as GAI goes, if you think they will make it, that's your opinion which is fine with me. However, I believe the vast majority of collectors see GAI for what they are and think otherwise.

    Hey Jim - I'm editing again but not concerning spelling this time. It has to do with your statement below:



    << <i>I hate to have to educate you on this board but if you know the weekly revenue trend and what you need to be profitable you know a lot more than someone who makes unsubstantiated statements. >>


    You can interpret all the financial data you want, but it all comes down to this: to make continuous profits, you must offer a product that will be sustaining month after month, year after year. Only ownership with blinders on would continue to operate in a set pattern without listening/reviewing/adapting/changing in the marketplace. Simply put, GAI hasn't delivered on numerous promises and claims, and blundered on many occasions with higher level collectors as well as the common guy - time and time again. SGC on the other hand has a clue, and is making nice strides in the right direction. Let's see in a few years what the data suggests then for GAI ownership. I'll place a bet with you - SGC will be around in 2 or 3 years and continuing to take market share; GAI won't.

    Care to indulge?
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Thats a lie--I've seen what you have said about me before you thought again and took it off.
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    BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    Please keep the personal attacks to a minimum, say 3 max per day?

    ps) Edited for grins and giggles!
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    BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭
    .
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    1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    Good ole Jim and his infamous personal attack statement ... whatever. Jim, no one is attacking you. image

    If you think GAI is a viable company, use them ... that's all I have to say.

    collecting various PSA and SGC cards
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    DavalilloDavalillo Posts: 1,846 ✭✭
    Good--please make it permanent and spare us all your non-stop barbs and go back to talking about the Pope or whatever you talk about on LTS.

    And thats all I have to say.
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    WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    sigh
    Good for you.
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    Fletch1750Fletch1750 Posts: 199
    Who are the financial backers of GAI???
    I love candy cards
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    lowstartmicklowstartmick Posts: 304
    LTS ?
    Whoever said we wash away with the rain ?
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