Lincoln Set Delimma

lookin4Linkin

I am closely approaching the point of no return on a Lincoln Basic Set (59-Present). I have begun acquiring pieces for the set and now I am beginning to wonder if I have made a good decision. The more pieces I acquire the more committed I become to completing it. At this point it is cash out my stocks (which I'm no too happy with) or dump the Lincolns and wake up. The problem is I truly love coins, but is it a good investment? I would like to complete a high quality set and move on to bigger and better coins, but Im not sure If there would be any interest from others in my registry set down the road. I’m about 30 pieces into it with several Top-Pops. If my main goal is to make a profit in the long term while enjoying the coins (and the hunt for them) in the meantime then do I need to complete an entire set? Is there any interest in acquiring a top 10 set or am I going about this all wrong? I guess what I’m asking is: Are registry sets for pure collectors or do sets have real investment potential. (not that my stocks have much potential.. lol).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Stooge

You are going to find while reading alot of the posts around here, that most collect because, like yourself, they LOVE coins. They just love collecting their coins because it pleases them, not because of the profit aspect. Having said that, you will find that as of late the topic of diuscussion around here has been profitablity of selling a high end "Complete" set of coins. Just recently the all time finest IKE Pr Dollar set sold complete via private treaty. I'm sure the seller made a few $$$ in selling complete and the person buying was thrilled I'm sure. Some would rather buy an entire set complete then spend the time (Sometimes years) assembling a complete set, as some pieces are not available. If you are looking to make a profit, you might be disappointed, as it is very hard to do and doesn't happen every time. depends on the market.

Speaking of market...I heard gold is suppose to jump another $100 in the near future. You may want to buy a few Oz. of gold, wait, then sell. Maybe you make a few bones that way.

Best of luck...and welcome to the boards!!!

Later, Paul.

a039

I think the best way to figure out the profit part is are we buying at the top of the market? Will the 2009 commems ignite another new set of collectors like the State Quarters... If your set is incomplete and there is a downturn in the market that makes the coins you need more affordable and your set worth less. Top ten nowadays will cost $50000? The value of the older top ten sets has I would imagined have gone up ten times( that's a guess ) in the last few years . Its hard to focus on a set when there are so many nice varieties of coins and when bargains come up it is hard to resist! So now I am assembling a early commems set, who knows maybe the Lincoln's go down and the commems go up? Hopefully both... Good luck with your set! Mark

jacktheknife

a039,

I think you left out a zero on that number to get to top ten.

Jack

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS

LookinforLinkin - If you are collecting Lincoln Memorial Cents as an investment ........then you are barking up the wrong tree.They are neither scarce nor an investment.They are a vehicle for learning how to grade and collect Lincoln cents and to have FUN.
The Lincoln cents that are investment quality will be available when you have more experience.Perhaps you should learn varieties and double dies as an investment such as the 1955/55,1972/72 or some of the other major double dies.

Stewart

DMWJR

Welcome!

Do you mind pointing out which set is yours??

Collectibles as a whole are fairly risky. If you are looking at coins as an investment, you probably want to stick with the "blue chip" coins, which are the keys. Memorials, IMO, are for collecting and not investing. Those which appear to have "investment" potential really only have a short term potential for profit. If you are tapping your savings for memorials, you probably should be having these second thoughts. A compromise might be to search the undergrades (which are cheap) to satisfy your collecting interest. Search out the potential upgrades, and you might even make a couple of coins which will give you big satisfaction without sucking up your hard earned savings. Collect die varieties for a while. Don't let the "investment" side of the equation ruin the "collecting" side.

Just my .02

perfectstrike

Stewart offers some great advice. I used Memorials to help me learn how to grade and determine eye appeal. I also started when a top 5 set was an inexpensive learning experience. I made a dozen or so submissions to complete my education. Now I've got several complete sets and the registry isn't even a secondary consideration. I've moved on to the Lincoln classic set and a couple other series to expand my expertise. I've made more submissions to learn where each grading company is solid and inconsistent. I no longer care what holder my coins are in, only what they look like. I'll add the 2004 and later Lincolns to my registry some day, for now I'm content to admire them.

David

lookin4Linkin

Thanks to all of you for the advice.

I would like to clarify a few of my statements. The stocks I am speaking of is not my savings just side money that I wanted to invest aggressively. I am beginning to grow bored with some of those investments and the future outlook of our economy (Iran/Iraq/Oil..etc.) doesn’t thrill me.

I decided to start with memorials because that seemed to me to be the least painful way to start without getting in too deep over my head. I also recently revisited the Whitman Lincoln set my parents started in the 50s. I wanted to look at high quality coins that were affordable. Also The idea of having a complete high quality set intrigued me. It gives me a goal and maintains my interest.

I’m not as much looking to make a profit as I am hoping recoup my investment with interest in order for my hobby to help pay for itself. Also Jack I respect what I have read from you on other posts but it seems to me that top ten can be done for under 20K (Memorials-Basic). Doug my set is not posted I wont be posting a partial.

As for now I think I will just take it slow and try to keep learning.

Thanks

Steve

Hi lookin4linkin,
People in this thread are giving you GREAT advise. Here's mine from an experience standpoint. I've been collecting Lincoln's now for over 23 years, not as an investment, but for the love of completing and in some cases upgrading over time. It has all been fun and considering the years involved, it hasn't cost a lot of money. Although I haven't looked on this hobby as an investment it is true that I have much more value in my set today than all the costs I've put into it. It is also very true that most of my value today is in the wheat cents, not the memorials. In fact, the only really valuable memorial I own is the 1990 no S proof error coin. Good luck, and welcome to the forum.
Steve

earlwbollinger

I think one has to consider it more a love to collect and complete something.
I would not think that it would be a investment type of thing.
But it does feel pretty good to complete a collection too.
Here is mine

LincolnsRule

Hi Lookin4Lincolns! Welcome to the boards! First, Jack meant top 10 Wheat set. I think a top ten Memorial set can be had for $5000 or less. If you have time to spend looking for rolls, one can be put together even much much cheaper. You'll have to go through a lot of frustration learning how to grade, but it'll be worth it in the end.

As for an investment standpoint, it is still a tough call. Some people say they are an awful investment because there are tons of bags, rolls, etc all still unsearched. Those people don't realize how terribly produced the coins were though. (much worse than most late date wheats...). I just got graded a pop 3/0 1963 Lincoln and several people have told me "take the money and run" but no way jose! I will never again see another 1963 as nice in my lifetime. It was a lot of determination and pure luck that led me to find it. I'm sure that if the day ever comes that I want to sell it... there will be someone out there that will appreciate it's rarity! If you spend time to learn what dates are common and what dates are rare, you'll know which ones are a good investment and which ones are bad. I started a date by date analysis once... do a search under Lincoln Memorial...

lookin4Linkin

Thanks for the reply

Couple of questions for you. Ready.........

Did you find the 63 in a roll?
Are the head/tails on rolls pretty representative of the rest of the roll or is there lots of variation (i.e. 65-68)?
Can OBW be doctored to look unopened?
Is that common?
Are there reputable roll dealers online?
At what point of experience would you be before you even considered making a raw submission?
If you were given a box with 50 1963 GEM BU rolls (2500 1c) how many pennies would you guess would grade 66? Maybe 1, 5, 10...?

I'll stop here. Sorry I’m like a dry sponge.

LincolnsRule

Yes, I found the 1963 in a single roll in a tube from a small coin and Jewelry store ($1.50!). Right from the start I knew it was a special roll as they were all fully struck, very bright untoned, and not a single spot on any coins. They still had marks though and I was just really lucky one of them didn't. Only one other coin from the roll graded ms66 (perfectstrike owns that one now). 99% of rolls of 1963 will be banged up to heck. They may also have spotting and other problems. Even though sellers call their rolls "gem BU" no such thing exists (all coins gem). If you buy 50 different 1963 rolls from various sources, I bet you'd have a pretty good range of low to high quality rolls, and a pretty good chance at finding a handful of ms66's.

No, the end coins are pretty much never an indication of the coins inside. Loosely wrapped rolls may have decent end coins and afwul spotted interior coins. Sometime tightly wrapped rolls can be the opposite. Tightly wrapped are usually better, but well stored loosely wrapped can be good too. Actually, tubed rolls can be great as long as you can trust they've been unsearched. Yes, rolls can be doctored. In all my roll buying though, I think the number that I've received that has been doctored has been pretty small. Small enough I haven't worried about it.

The best source for rolls are the local dealers, seriously. The online dealer or two I buy from I'd prefer to keep to myself right now. Sorry.

So I collected raw Lincoln Memorials for 2 years, just trying to build the nicest set I could. I tried buying pcgs ms66 ones to fill in the worst dates in my set, and know what, they were worse than most of my coins! Anyway, I got a really good feeling for pcgs's grading, and started submitting at first duplicates. I submitted my duplicate 1997 which graded ms68, pop 4/0 at the time, Close to Perfect now owns it. I was doing fine with grading... and then last spring I decided to start submitting my own coins, and I was off on grades on everything (Not my fault!). My (no question) nicer 1997 graded ms67... the 1963 that just graded ms67 was ms66 last spring... see that's the problem, is not learning to grade, but dealing with pcgs! They can control the market and the prices anywhich way they want. Long term though, nice coins will always be nice coins, and highly desirable coins, and for some dates, highly rare coins.

Anyway, thanks for the questions! I'd be glad to do whatever I could to help!

lookin4Linkin

Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate the nurturing. I know have so much to learn, and I think I dove head first into the deep end on this one. But I’m going to keep my eyes and ears open become a wallflower and soak up as much as I can. I know I came to the right place when some of the finest collectors in the world take time to offer advice.

I think I’m going to hold on to the investments I spoke of earlier and look at this from a pure collecting standpoint; Building up my collection over time acquiring pieces slowly though a variety of means using extra money here and there. Instead of moving large sums very quickly before I have any clue what I’m doing. Of course with that said I’m sure a better date top pop will show up and I will be forced to make a tough decision.

Anyway Thanks again.

BTW nice set Earl hope to be there one day.

LincolnsRule

If you haven't realized which set is mine... it's this one. I've been working on it for 4 years. One of those years I was essentially a "full time" collector. It is NOT easy to put together a set like this. I listed where I got the rolls from actually, but if you buy rolls from some of those sellers now, they've already been searched, by me. I am haletj on ebay too and often have duplicates for sale. I won't pressure you into buying anything of course. I'd just be glad to share knowledge so you can make your own decisions.

lookin4Linkin

You have some really quality stuff there especially the 63 and 69/69s and 73-D.

I'm thinking about a 1986 MS68 like you have and weather I should pull the trigger on one right now.

LincolnsRule

Shoot! I was going to bid on that one on ebay...

lookin4Linkin

Dont know how I have missed your items I have searched Ebay high and low. You are killing me with the 70 and 78. Please dont tempt me. I would love to but.....

Im sure with your inventory though we will end up doing business. Did most of that come from your roll submissions?

lookin4Linkin

Yeah Im waiting for the sharks to show up late.

Intersting enough that coin was purchased on teletrade for $600 I think then sold a few months later to the current holder for $340.

I will be watching to see how far it gets pushed.

Stooge

Another bit of novice advice which any collector will give you is "Buy the book before you buy the coin!" It won't hurt to read, read, read! Tons of grading books and Lincoln cent books. Pick up a cherry pickers guide to varieties.

Subscribe to Coinworld, CoinAge, and Numismatic news. GOOOOD reading!

Do a Lincoln Cent post search and read old posts.

Later, Paul.

LincolnsRule

Yeah, with the BP it was $690 on teletrade. That has been the going rate. I paid $650 for mine. I think this one might be a hair nicer so I was planning to bid. Yeah, those coins were all found by me in rolls. The 78-d rolls were tremendously unusual. Every single other banks roll I've seen from Denver from 1976-1981 are haze covered (I got ms67 80-d's out of an unhazed bag). I got about a dozen haze free 78-d rolls and got 8 ms67rd's. Why they stayed nice? No idea. I've seen many of the pcgs ms67rd D coins from that era that I didn't get graded, and most had haze despite the high grade anyway.

LincolnsRule

lookin4lincolns... how do you think you missed my ebay items? I don't want to have messed them up or something and have lots of people miss them...

lookin4Linkin

Its weird I know I’ve seen your ID before but I don’t know how I missed those because I usually search for pcgs in Lincoln memorial and add stores as well. I see them now when searching as normal. I may have overlooked them since they have only been up a short time, but I definitely see them now.

a039

Sorry I did not read your post correctly, It was a little early in the morning here. I was talking about the wheats set. Apparently I was way off going off the top of my head. Tenth place could be captured now for $120000 with sending in 50% Raw. Off the shelf it could be done for $145000 in three months. These are approximate figures from a newbie so take it with a healthy dose of skepticism! I am just trying for top 40 for now....putting the numbers together was mind numbing! Take care, Mark