Hockey...Why isn't this guy in the HHOF??? (new title)

Onlypsahockey · January 23, 2006 12:59PM

I can't figure out why Claude Provost isn't in the Hall Of Fame?

589 pts. in 1005 games, 9 Cups & 11 All Star appearances. Plus...

Over 1/2 a point a game for a defensive forward in the 50's & 60's
is pretty good isn't it?

The text below is from the Hockey Hall Of Fames player search.

Claude Joseph Antoine Provost

When Toe Blake took charge behind the bench of the Montreal Canadiens in 1955-56, he introduced Claude Provost to the club's star-studded roster on the basis of his aggressive and hard-working approach to checking opponents. His peculiar, wide-stance style of skating concealed surprising speed. One observer humorously noted that when he hit the ice, he looked like a drunken sailor walking on a ship's deck during a hurricane. But however awkward he appeared, he used his hustle to good end, serving as Bobby Hull's shadow throughout the 1960s.

In addition to superb defensive play in the company of Andre Pronovost and Phil Goyette, Provost made steady improvements to his offensive game as the years progressed. In 1964-65, he was voted a First-Team All-Star on the strength of his team- leading 33 goals.

Having lasted with the Canadiens for 15 seasons meant that Provost was not left wanting for his name to be etched on the Stanley Cup. All told, he enjoyed nine league championships, including a record five in a row between 1956 and 1960. He also appeared in eleven All-Star games.

Toward the end of his career in 1968, he was awarded the first-ever Bill Masterton Memorial Trophy as the player who best exemplifies the qualities of perseverance, sportsmanship, and dedication to hockey.

In 1971, Provost's rights were traded to the L.A. Kings, although by then he had already hung up the blades to coach the Rosemont Nationale of the QJHL.

REGULAR SEASON PLAYOFFS
Season Club League GP G A TP PIM +/- GP G A TP PIM
1951-52 Montreal Nationale QJHL 49 24 29 53 46 9 5 2 7 4
1952-53 Montreal Jr. Canadiens QJHL 46 24 36 60 29 7 6 5 11 10
1953-54 Montreal Jr. Canadiens QJHL 48 45 39 84 83 8 3 8 11 16
1954-55 Shawinigan Cataracts QHL 61 25 23 48 44 13 6 3 9 6
1954-55 Shawinigan Cataractes Ed-Cup 7 2 2 4 4
1955-56 Montreal Canadiens NHL 60 13 16 29 30 10 3 3 6 12
1955-56 Shawinigan Cataracts QHL 9 7 8 15 12
1956-57 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 16 14 30 24 10 0 1 1 8
1957-58 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 19 32 51 71 10 1 3 4 8
1958-59 Montreal Canadiens NHL 69 16 22 38 37 11 6 2 8 2
1959-60 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 17 29 46 42 8 1 1 2 0
1960-61 Montreal Canadiens NHL 49 11 4 15 32 6 1 3 4 4
1961-62 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 33 29 62 22 6 2 2 4 2
1962-63 Montreal Canadiens NHL 67 20 30 50 26 5 0 1 1 2
1963-64 Montreal Canadiens NHL 68 15 17 32 37 7 2 2 4 22
1964-65 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 27 37 64 28 13 2 6 8 12
1965-66 Montreal Canadiens NHL 70 19 36 55 38 10 2 3 5 2
1966-67 Montreal Canadiens NHL 64 11 13 24 16 7 1 1 2 0
1967-68 Montreal Canadiens NHL 73 14 30 44 26 +17 13 2 8 10 10
1968-69 Montreal Canadiens NHL 73 13 15 28 18 +12 10 2 2 4 2
1969-70 Montreal Canadiens NHL 65 10 11 21 22 +6
1970-71 Rosemount Nationale QJHL
NHL Totals 1005 254 335 589 469 126 25 38 63 86

NHL First All-Star Team (1965)
Bill Masterton Trophy (1968) Played in NHL All-Star Game (1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1967) Traded to Los Angeles by Montreal for cash, June 8, 1971.

Bob C.

phreakydancin · January 23, 2006 1:07PM

<< this guy isn't in the Hall Of Fame?

589 pts. in 1005 games, 9 Cups & 11 All Star appearances. Plus...

Over 1/2 a point a game for a defensive forward in the 50's & 60's
is pretty good isn't it? >>

(1) Pretty good is not good enough for the Hall of Fame.
(2) Too many of his teammates are already in the Hall.
(3) Stats don't mean that much for d-men. If they did, Phil Housley would be going in too.

Onlypsahockey · January 23, 2006 2:08PM

Provost comes out on top when compared to Olmstead who is in.
Both were key forwards for the dominant Habs.

Claude Provost:589 pts. in 1005 games/9 cups/11 all star games.
Bert Olmstead: 421 pts. in 848 games/6 cups/2 all star games.

I still think he should be in. If Bernie Federko is in...

Bob C.

lawnmowerman · January 23, 2006 2:13PM

<< Provost comes out on top when compared to Olmstead who is in.
Both were key forwards for the dominant Habs.

Claude Provost:589 pts. in 1005 games/9 cups/11 all star games.
Bert Olmstead: 421 pts. in 848 games/6 cups/2 all star games.

I still think he should be in. If Bernie Federko is in...

Bob C. >>

I dont know to much about hockey but by comparing those stats the guy should be in. Anyone in any sport with 11 all-star appearences should be in the hall.

matt

sagard · January 23, 2006 2:16PM

Don't fall into the baseball trap of comparing him to marginal qualifiers and base his qualification on them.

Sounds a little like Esa Tikkanen who was a key figure on those Edmonton teams, but not a Hall candidate in my opinion.

kingraider75 · January 23, 2006 3:12PM

maybe he can get in after he dies.

Onlypsahockey · January 24, 2006 12:27AM

< dont know to much about hockey but by comparing those stats the guy should be in. Anyone in any sport with 11 all-star appearences should be in the hall. >

Pretty much what I was thinking Matt.

Plus 9 rings! Who else has 9 rings?

Howe?.......No
Orr?...........No
Gretzky?....No
Richard?.....No Only 8 I checked

Bob C.

shagrotn77 · January 24, 2006 1:13AM

Ciccarelli is the most deserving player who's still not in. The guy scored more than 600 goals!!! Yet he gets no love from the voters.

Yzerman19C · January 24, 2006 1:36AM

<< < dont know to much about hockey but by comparing those stats the guy should be in. Anyone in any sport with 11 all-star appearences should be in the hall. >

Pretty much what I was thinking Matt.

Plus 9 rings! Who else has 9 rings?

Howe?.......No
Orr?...........No
Gretzky?....No
Richard?.....No Only 8 I checked

Bob C. >>

Beliveau has 10 cups, Henri Richard 11 cups . Dino should be in but Scotty Bowman who is no fan is on the committee

Yzerman19C · January 24, 2006 1:41AM

<< I dont know to much about hockey but by comparing those stats the guy should be in. Anyone in any sport with 11 all-star appearences should be in the hall.

matt >>

The all star game appearances from that era can be deceiving because the Stanley Cup champion played an all star team from the other 5 five teams. So he likely played most of those games as part of the champion

shagrotn77 · January 24, 2006 3:35AM

<< Dino should be in but Scotty Bowman who is no fan is on the committee >>

Can you elaborate on this?

Onlypsahockey · January 24, 2006 4:47AM

He must not be a fan of Provost either.

Yzerman19C · January 24, 2006 4:48AM

<< 

<< Dino should be in but Scotty Bowman who is no fan is on the committee >>

Can you elaborate on this? >>

The Hockey Hall of Fame selection comittee consists of 18 people listed below

Selection Committee
James M. Gregory, Chairman
Jim Gregory served as the General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs from 1969 to 1979. He later ran the NHL's Central Scouting department, and presently serves as the Senior Vice-President of Hockey Operations for the National Hockey League's Toronto office.

Al Arbour
Born in Sudbury Ontario, Al Arbour played 626 games in the NHL with Detroit, Chicago, Toronto and St. Louis, winning back-to-back Cups with the Leafs and Blackhawks in '61 and '62. In 1970-1971 he turned to coaching. As a coach He was instrumental is bringing four consecutive Stanley Cups to the New York Islanders in the 1980s. Arbour was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in the builder category in 1996.

Scotty Bowman
Elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1991 in the Builders' Category, Scotty Bowman's success over his 30-year NHL coaching career includes nine Stanley Cup victories, one more than the legendary Toe Blake. Bowman retired from coaching after leading the Detroit Red Wings to the Stanley Cup in 2002 and currently serves as a consultant to the team.

Colin Campbell
After turning pro with Vancouver of the WHA in 1973-74, Colin Campbell went on to play eleven seasons of defense in the National Hockey League. Following his retirement as a player in 1985, Colin pursued a coaching career that led him back to the NHL behind the bench as head coach of the New York Rangers for four seasons. Today, Colin Campbell is the NHL's Senior Vice President and Director of Hockey Operations.

Ed Chynoweth
Ed Chynoweth has been one of hockey's most respected administrators while serving as president of the Canadian Hockey League and the Western Canada Junior Hockey League. After stepping down from these duties he remained in the WHL as a member of the League's Board of Directors and as the owner of the Edmonton Ice.

John Davidson
A native of Ottawa, Ontario , John Davidson played his junior hockey in Western Canada before playing in over 300 regular season games from 1973 to 1983 in the National Hockey League with St Louis and the New York Rangers. A veteran in the media circuit as a hockey analyst, Davidson is viewed as one of the best in his profession. Recently John Davidson's resume includes Hockey Night in Canada and the Hot Stove Lounge, ESPN, ABC and the MSG Network.

Eric Duhatschek
Duhatschek began covering the Calgary Flames in the late 1970s and currently serves as the Globe and Mail's primary western hockey correspondent. He was presented the Elmer Ferguson Memorial Award for distinguished hockey journalism in 2001.

Mike Emrick
In 2001 Mike Emrick worked his 21st consecutive year as a play-by-play announcer in the NHL. In all he has 30-plus years experience behind the mike. He is the long time voice of the New Jersey Devils. He has received the national cable TV Ace Award for the best play-by-play and won the Emmy in 1997 in the New York region for Devils telecasts.

Emile Francis
The former goaltender began his coaching career with the Guelph Biltmore Mad Hatters Junior team. He next moved on to the parent New York Ranger's Hockey Club where he eventually served as Coach and General Manager -- a dual role he later also filled with the St. Louis Blues and Hartford Whalers. He was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in the Builder Category in 1982.

Dick Irvin
A well-known broadcaster throughout Canada, Dick Irvin started covering hockey for the Montreal station CFCF in 1962. Four years later he joined Hockey Night in Canada and in 1988 was the recipient of the Foster Hewitt Memorial Award.

Stan Mikita
Stan Mikita played center on the Chicago Blackhawks from 1959 to 1980. He registered 541 goals and 1,467 points in 1,394 regular season games and was a member of the Hawks' Stanley Cup championship in 1961. He was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in the Player Category in 1983.

Richard M. Patrick
The son of Muzz Patrick and the grandson of Lester Patrick, Richard M. Patrick was a successful lawyer in Washington, D.C. before he got involved with hockey. He was part of a group that invested in the Washington Capitals and later became the club's President in 1985.

Marty Pavelich
Marty Pavelich played left wing on the Detroit Red Wings from 1947 to 1957 where he won four Stanley Cups. Following the end of his playing career he was part of a number of successful business ventures.

Yvon Pedneault
For forty years, Yvon Pedneault has been reporting on hockey in the province of Quebec. After moving from Chicoutimi, Yvon covered the Montreal Canadiens for La Presse, later joining Le Journal de Montreal. In addition to print journalism, Pedneault is also a respected broadcaster with a resume that includes extensive work in both radio and TV, including his most recent role as a colour commentator for hockey on RDS.

Pat Quinn
Pat Quinn spent nine years in the NHL playing defense for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Vancouver Canucks and Atlanta Flames. After retiring as a player, he served as a coach and General Manager with the Philadelphia Flyers, Los Angeles Kings and Vancouver Canucks. He is currently the Head Coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Serge Savard
A standout defenseman on the Montreal Canadiens (1966-81) and Winnipeg Jets (1981-83), Savard won seven Stanley Cups with the Habs. He later served as General Manager of the Canadiens from 1983 to 1995 and was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in the Player category in 1986.

Frank Selke
The son of Frank Selke, Sr. held executive positions with the Montreal Canadiens and Oakland/California Seals as well as many colour commentary assignments on hockey broadcasts. He has been a successful businessman and served as the President of the Ontario Special Olympics.

Harry Sinden
Harry Sinden was a fine amateur player who led the Whitby Dunlops to the World Hockey Championship in 1958. He also coached the Boston Bruins to the Stanley Cup in 1970, Team Canada to victory in the 1972 Summit Series as was hired as the General Manager of the Boston Bruins in 1972. He was elected to the Hockey Hall of Fame in the Builder category in 1983.

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Its very much like an old boys club Scotty has alot of clout its allowed guys like Bob Pulford and Clark Gillies to get elected while guys that weren't all that management friendly like Dino (who Scotty pushed out of Detroit when he was here) and Glenn Anderson to wait longer to get in than they should of

Writer11 · January 24, 2006 6:59AM

As much as a player's personality shouldn't enter into the equation, I really think that is what is keeping Dino out. It's not just Scotty Bowman that dislikes him, I've heard rumblings about him throughout his career and even some of his actions after his playing career. It's pretty safe to say that there are a lot of Dino detractors out there.

As for Provost being in the Hall of Fame, I wasn't around in that era, so it's hard to say what kind of a on-ice presence he was. But I'm a huge hockey fan and I can honestly say that I've never heard him mentioned as one of his era's elite players. I don't think you can put a player in based on how many championships they have won. I mean Claude Lemieux won how many cups in an era where there were always 20 + teams. Does he belong in the Hall of Fame?

The NHL has been criticized in recent years for some of their Hall of Fame selections. Clark Gillies anyone? I think your passion and loyalty to Provost is admirable, but I wouldn't vote for him for the Hall of Fame.

Hockey...Why isn't this guy in the HHOF??? (new title)

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