One or two sapeque?

ajaan · January 23, 2006 10:21AM

satootoko · January 23, 2006 12:07PM

That's a two at the bottom, but an interesting question nevertheless.

Krause lists French Indo-China KM#6 with no picture in either the 19th or 20th/21st Century editions, but implies that the coin is 1 Sapeque or 1/5th of a cent. However this site has several pictures, all with the two character.

What year is yours? The Paris mintmark should be on the other side above the date. The traditional name of "Amman" is at the left in your picture, but the other side should say Francaise Indo Chine (French Indo China).

Do I win the coin for identifying it?

sumnom · January 23, 2006 5:01PM

It says "equal to two." It's a two something or other piece. It's really quite nice.

The legend around the edge reads, literally, "Great France's Annam." Of course we might say French Indochina but the legend refers to Great France, which has an imperial feel to it, as in The Great French Empire.

sumnom · January 23, 2006 5:01PM

Can you show us an image of the other side?

sumnom · January 23, 2006 5:04PM

What is a sapeque anyway?

SYRACUSIAN · January 23, 2006 5:06PM

<< <i>It says "equal to two." It's a two something or other piece. It's really quite nice.

The legend around the edge reads, literally, "Great France's Annam." Of course we might say French Indochina but the legend refers to Great France, which has an imperial feel to it, as in The Great French Empire. >>

That alone is a reason to buy it, depending of course on how you feel about France.

Nice red copper coin!I love the square hole.

sumnom · January 23, 2006 5:11PM

After minutes of toiling over a hot search engine I found out what a sapeque is. It also looks like there was no such thing as a 2 sapeque coin, was there? My guess is that "equal to two" means equal to two of the old copper cash coins.

Someone who actually knows something about about Annamese coins will surely show up and enlighten us.

SYRACUSIAN · January 23, 2006 5:22PM

Hi sumnom. It's snowing in Athens, how's Korea?

1jester · January 23, 2006 7:24PM

Snowing in Athens? Wow. It's hovering between -15 and -20 F here, with atmospheric pressure at 1055 hpa (791mm of mercury).

sumnom · January 23, 2006 7:40PM

It's chilly here but no snow. There is some left over from a while back but that is old and ugly now.

Where are out Vietnam coin people?

ajaan · January 23, 2006 8:24PM

Here is the obverse:

According to my 19th C Krause, 4th ed. The 1 sapeque coin has a round hole, not a square one. Krause has the coin listed as 2 sapeque but NGC called it a 1 sapeque. I emailed James Ricks at NEN to see what he thinks. BTW, the coin I showed is being offered by NEN on eBay French Cochin China.

I own an 1879A in NGC MS62 RB that is the same type but different date. NGC calls mine a 1 sapeque also.

sumnom · January 24, 2006 9:24AM

I am going to go out onto a limb here: there were no 2 sapeque pieces minted.

Steve27 · January 24, 2006 9:29AM

"One or two sapeque?"

Absolutely.

sumnom · January 24, 2006 9:29AM

My 19th and 20th century Krauses do not list a 2 sapeque coin. Both the French centime with the round hole and th epeice pictured in this thread are one sapeque. I think the "equal to two" might well refer to two copper cash coins.

Where are out Vietnam experts? I know we have some around here somewhere.

sumnom · January 24, 2006 9:34AM

My 19th century Krause has the following note about this coin: "The above coin has 2/1000 on the reverse and thus is often mistaken for a 2 Sapeque."

sumnom · January 24, 2006 9:38AM

Here is another interesting tidbit:

========================
Sapek - Variant form of sapeque.

Sapeque - Coin issued by France for use in Indo-China.

{From French sapèque from Malay sa pek, sa pe from sa one + pek, pe pie.}

[Annam (Vietnam), French Cochin China, French Indo-China]

=======================

source

whohah · January 24, 2006 9:44AM

"The Great French Empire"... isn't that an oxymoron???

sumnom · January 24, 2006 10:03AM

Perhaps, but the question is, was there a two sepaque coin minted? I cannot find one listed.

ajaan · January 24, 2006 11:09AM

Totally my fault in that I thought the coin was from French Cochin China. It is from French Indo China. The Frenc
Cochin Chinese coins were minted in the 1 and 2 sapeque denominations. Sorry for the confusion and thanks to James Ricks at NEN for setting me straight.

sumnom · January 24, 2006 11:44AM

I can't find a two sepaque listed in either category.

Does the "equal to two" refer to the old copper cash or something else?

SYRACUSIAN · January 24, 2006 3:33PM

Here is another interesting tidbit:

========================
Sapek - Variant form of sapeque.

Sapeque - Coin issued by France for use in Indo-China.

{From French sapèque from Malay sa pek, sa pe from sa one + pek, pe pie.}

[Annam (Vietnam), French Cochin China, French Indo-China]

=======================

So a sapeque was initially worth one pie. I can't see a reason why a 2 sapeques would exist. And the comment in Krause is pretty clear too.

sumnom · January 24, 2006 3:37PM

Indeed.

One or two sapeque?

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