Options
Merc woes and lessons learnt
marcmoish
Posts: 6,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
The twenty some dimes I had in the last FUN signature sale overall did NOT do as well as I truly hoped and expected. Some of my agonizing and personal realizations after many days of thought...
A. I had to sell now…otherwise I'd have waited longer. 5+ years for sure if not 10....that line of recommendation is critical and vital. This does not apply to mega dollar rarities.
B. Dealers and auction houses make all the money. The collector will NOT make money unless he/she is loaded and has super money for mega sized coins. Don't expect to make money if you sell within a few years of purchase. Trust me it’s a fact!
C. My some twenty dimes or so were included in a sale of over 300 Merc's… BAD MOVE ….had I known earlier or had more brains when I found that out … I'd never have consigned to that sale. I’d either bolt to ANR where the pics and descriptions would have been superior at least, or just abstained.
D. What do you make of the 65FB 23-S for example selling for 11.5K while my same grade 23-S sold for 6K plus change? sick? Dunno! – what the heck??I thought mine was better.. I really did…which takes me to;
E. If you think you know how to grade - you probably do not! I lost a lot of confidence in myself with this sale. Perhaps I really have no clue nor do I know what a nice dime should be/is/was. Or perhaps a few good dimes got lost in all the shmutz?
F. If you must sell put reserves – again I was duped into not! My bad!
G. Show and tell with collector friends. I wish I'd had done that. In hindsight, I know it's almost impossible for me with my tight schedule - I typically need to delegate toilet time for myself as it is during the day - taking off is a luxury for many. But if you can, and perhaps you should - show your coin(s) and get opinions from others often.
There, I feel better. All in all a horrible experience overall...one that will not go away so soon, and has left a mark on this collector at least. I hope to get over it and learn from my mistakes when I pursue it again or another series.
Signed,
A peeved collector kinda RED in the face these days
Marc
A. I had to sell now…otherwise I'd have waited longer. 5+ years for sure if not 10....that line of recommendation is critical and vital. This does not apply to mega dollar rarities.
B. Dealers and auction houses make all the money. The collector will NOT make money unless he/she is loaded and has super money for mega sized coins. Don't expect to make money if you sell within a few years of purchase. Trust me it’s a fact!
C. My some twenty dimes or so were included in a sale of over 300 Merc's… BAD MOVE ….had I known earlier or had more brains when I found that out … I'd never have consigned to that sale. I’d either bolt to ANR where the pics and descriptions would have been superior at least, or just abstained.
D. What do you make of the 65FB 23-S for example selling for 11.5K while my same grade 23-S sold for 6K plus change? sick? Dunno! – what the heck??I thought mine was better.. I really did…which takes me to;
E. If you think you know how to grade - you probably do not! I lost a lot of confidence in myself with this sale. Perhaps I really have no clue nor do I know what a nice dime should be/is/was. Or perhaps a few good dimes got lost in all the shmutz?
F. If you must sell put reserves – again I was duped into not! My bad!
G. Show and tell with collector friends. I wish I'd had done that. In hindsight, I know it's almost impossible for me with my tight schedule - I typically need to delegate toilet time for myself as it is during the day - taking off is a luxury for many. But if you can, and perhaps you should - show your coin(s) and get opinions from others often.
There, I feel better. All in all a horrible experience overall...one that will not go away so soon, and has left a mark on this collector at least. I hope to get over it and learn from my mistakes when I pursue it again or another series.
Signed,
A peeved collector kinda RED in the face these days
Marc
0
Comments
I am sorry you did not do well....
I had a reserve on mine...Heritage was not happy,but I wanted to run the show..not them...
I sold 70% of my dimes and they sold for an average of 22% over my reserve..which was my cost.
So you CAN make money in a short time if you don't let the auction house run the show.
If Heritage would not have done a no reserve with a no buyback..I would have gone elsewhere..and they knew that..
I am sorry that your 20 dimes got lost in my collection...
Heritage does that alot,and it is not good for the consigner..that is why I buy so much from them...I get good deals...
I think I tried to help you with your dimes ??
But did not want to step on another dealer's toes......
Sorry.....
Better luck next time,
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
I would send more coins to the big auctions if that was the case.
Badger
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
I always recommend that any collector/investor/hoarder/and even dealer routinely sell some of their stuff just to test the waters and their own skills. If you never do this, you just never know if you are in the ballpark or not. It's very tuff to be a truly successful (ie profit making) collector if you never utilize the "sell' side of the equation until the very, very end of your journey. One should always get feedback of sorts from different sources while they take the journey.
roadrunner
<< <i> I had to sell now…otherwise I'd have waited longer. 5+ years for sure if not 10....that line of recommendation is critical and vital. This does not apply to mega dollar rarities. >>
Marc: Under the circumstances, you did as well as you could. The mercury dime series was "sleeping" when you had to sell. You did not lose your shirt financially.
Do look at your situation another way:
(1) You had a lot of fun collecting those little mercs.
(2) You learned an awful lot about these dimes.
(3) You learned an awful lot about our hobby.
(4) You learned an awful lot about the business side of coin collecting meaning dealers and auctioneers.
(5) You survived your hobby financially.
(6) You did not lose your "shirt" financially.
(7) What you have learned is truly priceless.
Had you "invested" in the Nasdaq back in 1998, you would have "lost your shirt."
You could have done much worse.
And Oreville (thanks for your always thoughtful posts): I take it that you're characterizing the Mercury dime market as currently sleeping. Coming at this with next to no long-term experience with the high-end Merc market, I don't perceive it as quite that somnambulant. Prices have been higher during some brief spikes (notably on either end of the '80s, I'm told), but aren't things currently a bit better than sleeping?
Others please feel free to weigh-in on how sleepy the Merc market is at the present time!
Thanks!
PM sent.
Ken
I just went back to Oreville's previous thread (http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=30&threadid=465194) and noticed that he used the term "sleeping" there as well. It must not have gotten my attention the first time I read that thread.
But as I re-read all of the posts there--including Dunerlaw's very interesting recap of average selling price for 45-S 66FBs from the mid-70s to present--I again get the impression that the Merc market has revived quite a bit from its "bottom" of the mid-90s. (Congratulations and huzzas to Oreville for your timing on purchasing those Merc keys at that time.)
Again, I've only been paying attention to high-end Merc since last March, but even since then I get the distinct impression that prices are up (on EBay, DLRC, Heritage, and other sites that I view less frequently), and surely the current market for nice Mercs is WAY above the market of a decade ago.
I'm a pure collector, and everything I buy will be in my possession for decades. But I'd love to have more insight into where we are in the price cycle for the little ladies. (I can hear all of you saying, "Yeah, pal; wouldn't we all!")
Series that are more liquid don't have as much price volitility, but one can use volitility to their advantage at times. Buying when there is little demand, and selling when there's more demand.
Like anything in life, timing isn't everything but it's certainly 90% of it.
If a collector wants to exit they should engage a person who will help them exit. This person should know the market dynamics and should dollar average the exit to achieve the seller's desired rate of return across their collection. This is just one guy's opinion
Giving coins to an auction house to market/sell, etc., is a crap shoot. You might as well just list them on eBay. At least that way you are the master of your own destiny.
<< <i>Giving coins to an auction house to market/sell, etc., is a crap shoot. You might as well just list them on eBay. At least that way you are the master of your own destiny. >>
"Master of your own Destiny"....The Key.
Ken
One should always get feedback of sorts from different sources while they take the journey.
which is why I mentioned Item#G above. I should've!
oreville
Those 7 points are in reality correct and true! I appreciate your sharing them - Thank you
Mercfan
I did consider that and have sold other dimes other avenues including Ebay. generally speaking the above comments, included those dimes too...unfortunately!
I just have very little time for such private individual transactions but I admit they are lots of fun.
I'm a pure collector, and everything I buy will be in my possession for decades
that statement in itself should have you good to go.........so it makes no diff if mercs are sleepy, comotose or what now which I believe they are....
Marc
edited for spelling of good shees
I am using the term more akin to "resting" or "quiet"
No big negativity but not much driving the series either way (with some exceptions as always).
It will change when the mania over the lincoln cents and other series runs its course. Just keep in mind that the lincoln cent series was sleeping for DECADES!
Sorry to hear. I know from some of your posts the efforts you put into building your set. I think there were just too many dimes in that sale. The auctions with less dime in them seem to do better. Thanks for the heads up. Many people have learned from your experience, by you sharing it.
Tony
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>I think there were just too many dimes in that sale. The auctions with less dime in them seem to do better.
Tony >>
Or at least less quality mercs as the competition so that they stand out from the crowd and draw funneled interest. I've gotten beaten up myself having nice coins up for auction when there were too many options for collectors who were looking to buy.
I'm sorry that your Mercs didn't perform as well as you had hoped. I'm sure they would have done better in another sale where fewer Mercs were offered, but you can't control what other consignments may be put on the block along with yours.
I have been contacted by Heritage regarding consigning coins to their auctions, and have told them that their photography leaves much to be desired. They didn't feel the same way, so I haven't sent them anything. You can have the most gorgeous coins on the planet, but if the photos are lousy, they'll receive little attention unless they're viewed in person.
I've been a collector for many years longer than most people on this forum, and have seen cycles come and go. I don't believe the Merc series is sleeping, but rather that it's just an average market for them at this time. While I would prefer to have all FB coins, I have a hard time justifying paying many multiples of a non-FB coin for what I perceive to be a minor detail (I know I'm probably in the minority here). I'm perfectly happy with my non-FB semi-keys, and believe that if I were to sell, I would find buyers for most of them. There are a LOT of collectors outside of the registry who lack the deep pockets for a complete FB set.
As for reserves - personally, I would want a reserve on any coin with a value over $1000. The market for such coins is often very thin unless the series is "hot". There are some series that have seldom ever enjoyed a high degree of interest, so if you're selling coins in an out of favor series, you need to protect yourself.
I hope that your experience hasn't soured you on the hobby. It's an unfortunate fact that many people are disillusioned after trying to sell their collections. You've learned some valuable lessons, and have taught others what to watch out for.
Best regards,
Jim
Edited because I can't spell.
I completely agree with you on not paying stupid money on bands. I will only buy FB coins if the bands are cheap and no non full band coin is available. Matter of fact I'm working on a Merc date set and am trying to get all P-mint and all in no bands. Some of them are hard to find.
Jon
<< <i>Jim,
I completely agree with you on not paying stupid money on bands. I will only buy FB coins if the bands are cheap and no non full band coin is available. Matter of fact I'm working on a Merc date set and am trying to get all P-mint and all in no bands. Some of them are hard to find.
Jon >>
It is sometimes tougher to find high grade no bands dimes than full bands dimes...wait, it's almost ALWAYS harder (other than the 45-P and a few others).
Part of the reason is that it's not always economically sensible to get a lot of these slabbed because they are so common.
And in the key dates, most of the nice no bands ones are stashed
Tony
Thanks for the heads up. Many people have learned from your experience, by you sharing it.
Your welcome and thanks~~
jim/coinonut
I have a hard time justifying paying many multiples of a non-FB coin for what I perceive to be a minor detail (I know I'm probably in the minority here). I kinda agree although within a minority I believe is correct - something is wrong with that whole picture. It bothered me for some time that the center bands alone had to be totally split and all while the strike or upper/lower bands well...what the heck..something very wrong with that indeed..
Regarding the sour taste well what can I say - it is wearing off - the pain of the whole darn fiasco will go away...in the end we're all fruit
mercurydimeguy
probably means prior to '30's as many were tried for FB's you know...good point though about the nonFB economical factor altogether.
Laura
Unfotrunately, you may or may not believe this, you should have asked for a dealers help. You wouldn't have been so hurt. A good dealer is well worth their comission (if you notice the biggest collectors ALL have dealer reps).
yes I agree besides everything else that did or did not happen, I admit this point should be up there too especially when one is talking about over an certain figures...sage advice indeed.
Thanks for the PM's
Marc
<< <i>I've been a collector for many years longer than most people on this forum, and have seen cycles come and go. I don't believe the Merc series is sleeping, but rather that it's just an average market for them at this time. >>
I stand corrected in my use of the term sleeping. It is obviously a poor choice of words.
Thank you for insisting on the use of your term "average."
Obviously, "sleeping" must sound much worse to many of you than the way I meant it. Sleeping to me is quiet and calm with no significant ups or downs. Your term "average" probably makes a lot more sense. It is simply a market that is quiet at the moment compared to the Lincolns which is red hot. I remember when mercs had their hot days. They will come again as well.
Buyers like "average" markets. Supply is sufficient during average markets for buyers and prices are stable.
Lacking any first-hand, long-term perspective on the Merc market, I'm reassured by your general concensus that the current market is somewhere in the middle of its cycle: maybe not the absolute best of times to be a buyer--but far from the worst of times.
I must admit that I find the current situation really intriguing (and maybe particularly so because I have so little experience at watching these popularity cycles closely). I get to "go to school" on what happens with Lincoln mania as we approach (and pass) 2009, and then it'll be fascinating to see whether any sort of similar situation plays out with Mercs as we approach (and pass) 2016. As luck would have it, Lincolns were my primary numismatic interest during the sixties and early seventies, so I have a little familiarity with that series.
I think that the next ten years will be enormously enjoyable and interesting to observe.
Its interesting that the early Lincolns have rather low populations for some of the dates. The collector base is much higher thus making the competition very keen for examples when they come into the market place.
Ken
your experience.This information applies to all
series of coins of higher values that are lost in
a sea of mediocre lots. Further, without reserves,
their is always the danger of collectors and dealers
dividing up the lots, so that there is no competative bidding.
The information in your thread is important and can not be repeated
often enough in the telling. I failed to place reserves in an auction some time
ago and some very beautiful coins went at fire sale bids. We all have been
burnt at one time and we have all learned the hard way in our bill folds.
Camelot
Marc: Sorry to hear about your loss. Without having seen your coins, I do believe you have hit the nail on the head with this comment. I personally refuse to accept coins on consignment for auctions (worth more than $100 or so) without the safety net of a reserve being placed fo the collectors. Too many reasons the coins may sell cheap at auction without the safety net. Again, just a "safety net" (hopefully the coins will sell a few increments or higher above the reserves I place). And, you should always discuss your collection with a dealer or two I believe before consigning it - you may be surprised what deals can be offered to you from dealers and you have nothing to lose by asking obviously.
Wondercoin
Great Bear's typical words of wisdom - thanks for sharing too
We all have been burnt at one time and we have all learned the hard way in our bill folds. that is sooo true. I did not think i would effect those I did with my thread, and so therefore I am happy I chose to share.
wondercoin
I am now much smarter, although I thought I was, I was not. This whole fiasco has tought me multiple lessons. Yes, I agree on the dealer angle too.
TDN
running down the same lines as WC totally agree - amazing how much grief could have been saved have I shared my intentions with 2-3 dealers
Needless to say enough has been said, lessons have been learnt and I am so much better today then yesterday.......thanks for the PM's too
Marc