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With all the complaints about "strict" PCGS grading...
291fifth
Posts: 24,674 ✭✭✭✭✭
I find myself leaning toward wanting PCGS graded coins more than ever. No, I don't mean sight-unseen, but my preference for them over the #2 TPG is growing rapidly.
All glory is fleeting.
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Lots of people have trouble admitting it to themselves, but yes, I believe it is a large factor.
<< <i>I don't think you can categorize all of the complaints as frustration due to tightness- What I keep hearing over and over is complaints of inconsistency..... >>
Too bad the Mint dint make the coins more consistently.
I thought the problem was "gradeflation"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>"strict"?
I thought the problem was "gradeflation"
It's relative to other TPG's.
Believe what you want, but unless you believe that PCGS defines the reality of grading, then their grading is inconsistent as of late.
If you believe that they ARE the definition of grading, well then in your own mind you are probably right...and you certainly rationalize just about any PCGS grade.
When ex PCGS graders (from the late 1980's) are saying that they are annoyed with PCGS, stopped sending coins to PCGS and send coins to NGC, and you don't take the word of the very people that used to grade with HRH when he first started, well then you need to check the concentration level of your Kool-Aid.
And they aren't talking about bad grades/good grades. PCGS is in a world of its own lately...bagging coins that totally original. I had a coin in capital plastic for nearly 12 years, and it developed a lovely light toning. PCGS bagged it for questionable color??? I saw 2 TOTALLY original half cents that were 65 shot 66 RD, bought raw by an ex PCGS grader, submitted to PCGS and bagged for questionable color.
Then, you see them slab a coin that has been so cleaned, the hairlines/streaks are the size of a railroad track. And I can't even begin to talk about how many AT coins are slabbed by PCGS.
The problem is that they have slabbed SO much bad material that they forgot what an original coin looks like. So all the messed with copper goes in to RD holders, while some of the original copper gets bagged. All the messed with gold goes in to holders and some of the original stuff gets bagged.
We've all see so much bad material over the years that we stand the chance of falling in to the same trap, and discarding REAL material as subpar.
Enough said
THERE IS NO GRADEFLATION AND THEY ARE NOT BEING STRICT EITHER.
It is inconsistency in their grading...that's the problem over the last 6-12 months. And it's not getting better.
That's why some say it's strict and some say gradeflation.
There are already enough factors involved in grading....lets just take all toners out of the mix. Isn't it kind of like skin lesions on the body ?..., except these orbs have "pretty" sores all over them.... They can still keep their trading value and people can still build registry sets with them, but take them off the charts of Mint State Coins. Maybe I am wrong, but last time I heard~ MINT STATE doesn't come with TONING.
Okay here come the stonethrowers
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
#1 200 coins with a min grade of ms66... 117 grade ms66 and zero grade ms67
#2 200 coins with a min grade of ms66... about 100 grade ms66 and 19 grade ms67 including a pop 4, pop 18...
These were pre 1982 coins. Pretty much no difference in quality of the coins. The second one actually had the harder dates...
Now for post 1982...
#3 100 coins with a min grade of ms67... only 20 grade ms67 and 6 grade ms68 (5 84-d's pop 9 to 14 now)
#4 150 coins with a min grade of ms67....about 110 grade ms67 and only the way easy date 90-d (8 of them) grade ms68.
Again, not much of a difference in the coins and #3 actually had the tougher dates like 84-d and 97.
Now here's a coin that graded ms66 on a submission last spring (about the time haletj got kicked off the boards).
It just finished, ord #9045908
1 09758118 1963 1C USA MS67RD
David
<< <i>Yes, they are "strict" Only buy PCGS COINS >>
how many people here might know that those "scratches"
could very well be adjustment marks?
yes i know it is a dog for an XF coin, but way too many people
are seeing those "adjustment marks" and thinking PCGS sucks.
>>>>With all the complaints about "strict" PCGS grading
tight for you but not for certain others ....they gets upgrades everyday
buy the coin not the slab...unless one hasnt garnered the skills yet...then your in trouble so its best to buy with the clones
this is a hobby where as darwinism is the rule and little fish get eaten by bigger ones...and if you dont grow your skills and inderstanding of the market place....its best to stay in the shallow water ( a collection just like the next guys ) where the big fish dont go
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
In many cases, it's inconsistency.....
all your pcgs coins should all be cracked out and sent in again raw....if they are consistent they will all go back into the same holders....albeit with a few going up and a few going down...but for the most part thay should grade the same
now if they were inconsistent...you would be afraid of the above
in that case you should find another tpg who is much more consistent
my experience has been to have pcgs grade the same coin over a year 65 66 64 67
and ngc to go 67 67 67 67
no sheet
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
<< <i>Stman, PCGS slabbed it, got to be good, right? [insert sarcasm emoticon here] >>
That's what I'm saying.... or, that's what I been learning on here. Heh
<< <i>yes i know it is a dog for an XF coin, but way too many people
are seeing those "adjustment marks" and thinking PCGS sucks.
>>
Wouldn't want that now would we? The horror of it all. Maybe I'll go delete the link just in case. OK? LMAO
roadrunner
in the original post, perry hall, was about the only one who
mentioned adjustment marks.
everyone else saw those as scratches and agreed with the
original poster on that basis.
i feel one should mention that is not the reason the coin sucks
and point out the other problems.
thanks.
Meanwhile, I'll buy what I like no matter what holder. (if any) And, I'll link any coin I choose too. Thank you for your concern though.
thanks for the follow up.
one thing I have learned from you and others, is not to trust TPGs
100% and to learn how to grade my chosen series through practice.
I will try to use you and others as role models in future purchases.
<< <i>I will try to use you and others as role models in future purchases. >>
Me? Now don't go off the deep end now.
The 8 coins that were graded ms69 from what I have read right here in this forum were all in a single submission. This is the kind of thing that disturbs me! Makes me feel like if you know the right person any grade is possible.
I know I heard lots of talk about both at the Houston Money Show, but most of the talk was about PCGS. Of course, that's to be expected as they are the ones who most people want their coins slabbed by.
I showed my latest example of money wasted by submitting to PCGS to several people at the the show. 1957 Proof Washington, PCGS got it raw from me twice and this was last spring when all the complaints were being voiced. Sadly I missed the small window of Presidential reviews, the second time by only days.
I submitted it because I believed, as did several others who's grading abilities are not in question and everyone said it was a solid PR66 DCAM, maybe a shot at 67. Understand I had one already in a PCGS PR67 DCAM slab from around two years ago, and this one had better eye appeal. So I felt it was a great candidate.
First slab - PR63 DCAM ???
Second slab - PR 61 Cam ??!!?!?!!
Out of total frustration I sent it to NGC. It now resides in a PR66 UCAM slab. I still think that's a point low, but I would have accepted that from PCGS the first time around. It does have a few tiny hairlines, though it requires a 10X loup to see them.
It goes both ways, though. I submitted a 50 Proof Franklin with the Washington the first time. PCGS called it a PR63 CAM. I sent it to NGC along with the Washington just to see what would happen and it came back as PR61, no CAM designation at all and you'd have to be blind not to see the frost.
I've got a few CC Morgans at PCGS right now. I know what they should grade out at. It will be interesting to see what happens. They are the first coins I've submitted to PCGS in over 6 months, such as has been my frustration.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
i have 41 different PCGS AU58 walkers... all graded during the run back in the '80s. they range anywhere from a true au to maybe a true 64.
seems as though the more common the date the stricter the grading.
consistency...i have not seen it...ever.
but i will continue to buy pcgs au58 walkers that i need as long as i like the coin.
just my .02