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Has anyone "Made" any better date Lincoln cents in high grade ?


I'm talking about mint marked dates in the teens,twenties or early thirties.I believe it is probably near impossible since the prices are stratospheric.PCGS has been grading copper tighter than a crabs a$$....and that is very,very tight.
I may be wrong but I doubt it.

Stewart

Comments

  • I just got back a submission of 8 very PQ 64RDs last week including a 16D, 12S and 26D and got zero upgrades. Also tried some nobrainer 7RDs that are sitting in 6RD holders and got- you guessed it- zero upgrades. I'm giving up on them for awhile (on the coins AND PCGS!)
  • a039a039 Posts: 1,546
    Just got back a 09-S as a 64, I think it would be PQ in a 65 wrapper! Stewart, What percentage of your collection has been raw coins? TIA, Markimage



  • So, are you telling me I shouldn't even try? I have a few that I think are good candidates. Maybe I should wait a while. The real test will be when the 26-s from Bozarth's colection gets sent in.image

    Jack


  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Jack

    If you think Bozarths 26 s in 64 red will go 65 red then I WANT SOME OF WHAT YOU ARE SMOKING.

    Stewart

    a039 - More than 50% of my collection of early certified Lincoln Cents were sent in raw.The last coin they properly graded was a 1933 D in 67 red which was sent in raw.

    Stewart
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    With the current re-grade status, I won't send in any coin to PCGS for a while (until someone says they get real) image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • Not quite what Stewart was asking about, but still pretty nice... (sub 9045908).
    1 09758118 1963 1C USA MS67RD
    imageimage

    What do you guys think of this 29-d? I only bought it because it was going so cheap (On Christmas!). OMG is it nice. It's got that tone spot but nothing else wrong. Looks like a cent from the 40's. Or even a solid ms66 from the 40's. Would it ever go ms66 or does that spot nix that for sure?
  • I believe thats a pop 2 coin, correct?? WOW. Congrats my friend.
    image
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,974 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The last coin they properly graded was a 1933 D in 67 red which was sent in raw.

    Stewart >>



    How long ago was that??
    Doug
  • WaterSportWaterSport Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If your talking about resubmissions, I have a couple in the 20's that are MS 65 in old holders that I would love to send in but have not got the courage yet.

    WS
    Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
  • I keep track of population changes at PCGS over longer term periods than just a few months. Here are the actual increases in population of RD coins in early D and S mint dates since Oct 2004

    18 1911-D in 65, 1 1911-D in 66, 2 1911-S in 65, 15 1912-D in 65, 2 1912-D in 66, 1 1912-S in 65, 5 1913-D in 65, 2 1913-S in 65, 1 1914-D in 65, 1 1914-S in 65, 21 1915-D in 65, 1 1915-d in 66, 1 1916-D in 65, 4 1916-S in 65, 2 1917-D in 65, 1 1918-d in 65, 1 1919-d in 65, 4 1920-D in 65, 1 1920-S in 65, 1 1922-D in 65, 1 1922-D in 66, 3 1923-S in 65, 4 1924-D in 65, 2 1925-D in 65, 1 1925-S in 65, 1 1926-D in 65, 1 1927-D in 65, 1 1928-D in 65, 1 1928-D in 66, 3 1928-S in 65, 5 1929-D in 65, and 3 1929-D in 66

    Total increase in population in 65RD is 102 of which half came in 1911-D, 1912-D, 1915-D. Total population graded in 65Rd was 1419 coins in Oct 2004, so an increase of 7% in 1 1/2 years. If you exclude these three dates, the total population graded in 65Rd was 1135 coins with a total increase in 48 coins or 4% in 1 1/2 years.

    Total increase in population in 66RD is 10 out of a total population of 137 coins in Oct 2004, or an increase of 7% in 1 1/2 years.

    Given that there has been a faster increase in the number of high end collectors in early dates than the population growth in these grades, its not surprising that prices have risen so much.

    While I've heard dealers and collectors tell me about their successes in upgrades or crosses, the reality is that Stewart is correct. It has become incredibly hard to get upgrades in these early dates (not P-mints by the way). It could be that this is really deserving or it could be a policy at PCGS to be extremely tight on upgrades or crosses due to their buy-back guarantee.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • Jack, you're a kid with big dreams!!! Matter of fact - all of you are. 7% in the past 1 1/2 years. image
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    bECKWB - Nice bookkeeping ! All the 1911 d cents were sent in by ANR and auctioned at the pre ANA sale.One of the ms 65's got into a 66.They also auctioned many 1912 d cents that were graded ms 64 red on the first go round.Two of them upgraded from ms 64 red to ms 66 red.Most of the others went to 65 red on the second try.The two 1913 s cents were my submissions trying for an ms 66 red because I believe I have two 65 reds that are better than the two 66 reds.I would bet there are similar stories.
    My take is that PCGS is grading the situation and circumstances rather than the coins.

    Stewart



  • f you think Bozarths 26 s in 64 red will go 65 red then I WANT SOME OF WHAT YOU ARE SMOKING.


    Stewart,

    I was thinkin the same thing, but I'm glad you said it!image The owner may not think it's too funny, though.


    Lloyd,

    You hit the nail right on the head. I'm so pathetic. I'm just friggin' hooked on Lincolns. I feel like a crack-head. Just trying to figure out where and when I'm going to score next.


    Jack



  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    > My take is that PCGS is grading the situation and circumstances rather than the coins.


    100% agree with you. When the price of CLCT drops to single digit, I will consider to send in some coins for re-grade image

    Do graders get CLCT stock option?
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover


  • << <i>bECKWB - Nice bookkeeping ! All the 1911 d cents were sent in by ANR and auctioned at the pre ANA sale.One of the ms 65's got into a 66.They also auctioned many 1912 d cents that were graded ms 64 red on the first go round.Two of them upgraded from ms 64 red to ms 66 red.Most of the others went to 65 red on the second try... >>



    Holy Cow! I bought the only 65rd 12-d in that auction. It sure is nice. Just a little bit struck from worn dies. A picture of it is here. Even though this was graded the highest, was this the nicest coin? Did I get a 66rd in a 65rd holder!!!?? Gosh dang, I was going to try to buy the best 65rd 11-d too but thought I couldn't afford it (I actually could have). I bought what seemed to be the best 64rd, for $1035. I don't like it that much though and haven't tried to upgrade it.
  • I just can not believe this!!

    coin
    same coin

    My coin!!!
  • Jaime,

    The 12-D is Super nice, so nice I would crack it. It looks 66 to me.
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    MS66 plastic could be worth a lot image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Stewart: My BU roll of 1928-D cents that I bought in 1969 became the "mother" of most of the registry beauties in high PCGS mint state. I never wanted to break up the roll but I needed to test my grading skills in some manner and also needed some funds to buy the 1955 DDO cent you saw. Fortunately, I have saved other gorgeous mint marked cents from the 1920's that are still raw and bathing in mineral oil for over 35 years!!! As red (or brassy golden) as they were when I bought them in the 1960's.

    The mineral oil is still better than the intercept product in my analysis over the past two years. More on that later!!!


    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • Oreville -

    Can you expand on the mineral oil? Never heard of such a thing????image
    image
  • LincolnsRule,

    So let me get this straight:

    The coin was in a 64RD holder...and sold at auction for $690.

    Then the coin was in a 66RD holder...sold for $23,000 at Heritage.

    Someone cracked it out...lost their shirt and it landed in a 65RD holder and you picked it up for $2300? My question is: Why would someone crack it out of a 66 holder? The mark on the cheek would prevent it from upgrading to a 67. Is the mark on the cheek going to keep it out of a 66 holder even?

    If I am reading this right....PCGS assigned three different grades to the same coin?image Regardless of what you are able to do with it...it is still a tremendous looking coin! Congrats.
    image
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 11,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ellewood: pm sent.
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
    Lincolns rule - With your luck your coin will come back downgraded as a 64 red !

    Stewart


  • << <i> Lincolns rule - With your luck your coin will come back downgraded as a 64 red ! >>


    image

    Ellewood: no, my coin is a different coin from the one that went from ms64 to ms66. Mine was graded ms65 at the same time that other one was graded ms64.
  • Yeah, you guys. I knew they were SEPARATE coins. You actually think someone with a 66 12-d would crack it???

    One had a nick on the cheek, and Lincolnsrule's - does not. But Lincolnsrule - you need to have a good bribe or contacts on the inside of PCGS to get it into a 66. My belief is you will be joining Dr. Jack on fantasy island.

    About the 64 to a 66. With a nick on the cheek so obvious. Somebody inside loved the submitter in more ways than we know.

    And in the end: Seems to me another buy the plastic not the coin case...
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • Stewart:

    Did you misstate on your 13-s submissions?? beckwb stated actual INCREASES from one grade to another. Your statement of the 13-s submissions TRYING TO UPGRADE are only ATTEMPTS, thus do not count. Correct??
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,974 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Stewart:

    Did you misstate on your 13-s submissions?? beckwb stated actual INCREASES from one grade to another. Your statement of the 13-s submissions TRYING TO UPGRADE are only ATTEMPTS, thus do not count. Correct?? >>



    Probably cracked out 65's sent in raw, that came back 65 again.
    Doug
  • STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭

    You got that right Doug,I still have to turn in the inserts.

    Stewart
  • Got it. beckwb can edit his "research". NO new 65 1913-S. I wonder how many other crack-outs from those D,S coins came back the same? Then that 7% upgrade # starts to drop....
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image


  • Lloyd,

    "Fantasy Island?!!" C'mon, let me live in my little dream world.image

    I agree with you on the upgrade issue, though. Trying to figure out if PCGS is grading "tight" or "loose" based on the pop reports is an exercise in futility. As with any data, it's garbage in garbage out. Occasionally you can follow a particular coin, as in the case of the 12-D with the scratch (gouge) on the cheek. But trying to draw any conclusions from the pop reports is an analysis frought with error.


    Jack


  • MacCrimmonMacCrimmon Posts: 7,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>> My take is that PCGS is grading the situation and circumstances rather than the coins.


    100% agree with you. When the price of CLCT drops to single digit, I will consider to send in some coins for re-grade image

    Do graders get CLCT stock option? >>



    imageimageimage
  • >>>I'm talking about mint marked dates in the teens>>

    well i guess that leaves out a brand spankin new

    1915-p in 67 red out of consideration

    monsterman
    my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

    out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
  • stew

    >>>My take is that PCGS is grading the situation and circumstances rather than the coins

    your right about that....with the jump in auction prices they are going to make more to feed the demand.....pop 1 coins are going to pop 3 coins...pop 8 coins are going to pop 14 coins

    and those with pop 1 coins are going be pissed.....as the once lofty space gets crowded and values get diluted as the pop increases

    thats how the game is played

    but

    now pop one owners get to answer back...as usually in theory since their coins are still the best...its time to play the game and resubmit ...making the services even more money from the top guys having to play

    been there done that....and its not fun

    monsterman
    my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

    out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
  • Should I resubmit my 12-d asap? I probably am not going to sell it either way. The only way I would ever sell it is if it were an ms66 and allowed me to purchase a 65rd Twenties S.
  • a039a039 Posts: 1,546
    Stewart,(and forum) I sent a cracked NGC MS67 red nice wheat on 1/1/06 and it just came back MS 65! Holy cow, 66 maybe but 65? People talk about OGH but man'o'man coins from this time will be the holders to look for in the future...That reminds me I also cracked a PCGS OGH MS 64 RED hoping for a 65 it came back a 63. I feel like a retard for cracking it out! Will you be at Long Beach? Take care, Mark image
  • jcpingjcping Posts: 2,649 ✭✭✭
    > sent a cracked NGC MS67 red nice wheat on 1/1/06 and it just came back MS 65

    Surprise ??? you shouldn't. That's today's PCGS grading.
    Wait for another seven months (until summer ANA), you might be able to get MS66 back image
    an SLQ and Ike dollars lover
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