Options
Peyton Manning - the Dan Marino of his generation
Michigan
Posts: 4,942 ✭
in Sports Talk
He does not want that title of course but he sure looks like it.
"He was a great quarterback but........" you know the rest of the sad legacy.
"He was a great quarterback but........" you know the rest of the sad legacy.
0
Comments
Think of the movie "Groundhog Day". The harder Bill Murray tries to re-live a perfect day the worse it gets. The Colts slipped off track and tried to regain momentum just by stepping back on the tracks. You can be on the right track, but you'll get run-over if you're standing still...enter the Steelers. It's nobody's fault, in my opinion. Just a tough way to end a really good season.
Congrats to the Steelers and their fans. They are a very spirited group of guys that are well-coached and don't fear anyone. They're a legitimate Super Bowl Championship-caliber club.
That said, circumstance has an awful lot to do with success in the moment. Super Bowls do not make the player in my opinion. In our society it is always about winning the last game you play or what have you done for me lately. I choose to be above that. The Buffalo Bills that went to four Super Bowls are a truly special team to me. The Atlanta Braves keep failing in the post-season, but every organization that has needed to rebuild does so in their model. Also, ask any team that was in the National Football League from 1983-1990 if they wanted Dan Marino to be their quarterback and, with few exceptions, the answer would be "Why? Is he available? What have you heard? You'd better not be joking! This is HUGE!" Marino and Manning are both all-time greats with or without jewelry. Manning may get his--he may not. That doesn't change the durability, leadership, hard work, discipline, and skill he plays with every week.
dgf
<< <i>I guess he (Manning) failed in his attempt to lead the Colts to a big win. He is a great young quarterback that will have his day(s) in the sun. The Colts had a very good season and were the leagues premier team for awhile. They peaked a touch early and didn't respond AS A TEAM very well to the adversity they faced late in the season. Sometimes the harder you try to regain what you've DONE gets in the way of what you need to DO.
Think of the movie "Groundhog Day". The harder Bill Murray tries to re-live a perfect day the worse it gets. The Colts slipped off track and tried to regain momentum just by stepping back on the tracks. You can be on the right track, but you'll get run-over if you're standing still...enter the Steelers. It's nobody's fault, in my opinion. Just a tough way to end a really good season.
Congrats to the Steelers and their fans. They are a very spirited group of guys that are well-coached and don't fear anyone. They're a legitimate Super Bowl Championship-caliber club.
That said, circumstance has an awful lot to do with success in the moment. Super Bowls do not make the player in my opinion. In our society it is always about winning the last game you play or what have you done for me lately. I choose to be above that. The Buffalo Bills that went to four Super Bowls are a truly special team to me. The Atlanta Braves keep failing in the post-season, but every organization that has needed to rebuild does so in their model. Also, ask any team that was in the National Football League from 1983-1990 if they wanted Dan Marino to be their quarterback and, with few exceptions, the answer would be "Why? Is he available? What have you heard? You'd better not be joking! This is HUGE!" Marino and Manning are both all-time greats with or without jewelry. Manning may get his--he may not. That doesn't change the durability, leadership, hard work, discipline, and skill he plays with every week.
All that is true but no super bowl ring - their football careers still seem incomplete. Marino one time said it was no big deal to him in
an interview but his body language said otherwise.
In a way it is kind of sad but that is how they are looked at. Fran Tarkington one time said he was snubbed at a super bowl
banquet after his playing days because he didn't have that ring, was not allowed into a special party.
<< <i>The comparison is a bit premature - Manning is only 29 years old...still young for a QB. >>
True . . . . . he may end up being the John Elway of his generation -- however, I think Elway at least GOT to the Superbowl by age 29 (as did Marino).
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
He is the best QB in the league, but doesn't seem to have that X-factor. I noticed that only 1 of the QBs in the conference championships is a first round pick - Big Ben. Jake was a second round pick and Hasselbeck/Del Homme were sixth round picks.
I would rather have one of those guys that had to work for everything rather than a 1st round golden boy.
3-6 in the playoffs.
He's consistenly come up short in the biggest games of his career. Many want to cruicfy van der jagt for that missed field goal, but really, the first 55 minutes of that game Manning was TERRIBLE.
Let's put the focus on Indy's lost season right where it belongs: on Mannings shoulders.
that could of touched him. He was scoring 40 points a game with Duper and Bernie Parmalee!!
Take a look at what Marino did with NO supporting cast. Can anyone name a running back for the Dolphins from 85-95? Orande
Gadsen was the only guy who could catch the ball! Heck he threw it so hard and so accurate sometime it probably stuck in the
receivers stomach.
Elway has no rings without Terrell Davis
Aikman is an average QB and has no rings without Emmitt and Irvin
This isn't an argument. Manning has the weapons, and even if he wins 5 rings, he will have to prove that he can win with nothing
for me to compare him to Marino! How do you break all the passing records throwing it to Jim Jensen and OJ McDuffie??? The guys
a freak!
JS
Dan is one of the top QBs in NFL history, but I have to put John Elway ahead of him and maybe Favre. Elway may have neeed Terrell to win the rings, but he was there many more times.
had half of what Marino did in his second year. Elway was a bum until 93. Marino has 10,000 more yards and over 100 more touchdowns AND
the opposing defenses KNEW he was going to chuck it!
Football is team sport, ask Ted Williams about that. Elway is not even in the same class as Marino.
JS
Regular season stats are great for fantasy football, but Marino has a losing playoff career record (8-10), just like Manning, while Elway is 14-8. If Marino is so much better than Elway, how come couldn't even lead his team to more playoff wins?
And at the end of the day Elway has two rings. His career doesn't have the "he was great, but" taint.
none.
Kevin
<< <i>You flatter Manning with the comparison to Marino, but with that being said - if you want a QB to put up great fantasy league numbers for you, then Peyton is your man.....but if you want a QB that plays the real games with passion and fire, I'll take a guy like Delhomme any day of the week. >>
Put some pressure on the QB, and none of them look good. You want Delhomme? 8 for 24 with three interceptions as I'm watching here in the 3rd quarter. Looks terrible.
Fact is, if your line doesn't give you time to throw, it doesn't matter who the QB is.
Put some pressure on the QB, and none of them look good. You want Delhomme? 8 for 24 with three interceptions as I'm watching here in the 3rd quarter. Looks terrible.
Fact is, if your line doesn't give you time to throw, it doesn't matter who the QB is. >>
This is what I said from the get go. Football is the ultimate teammate dependant sport. In baseball most people recognize the pitfalls of the stat of RBI's...they are very dependant on your teammates. In football, it is like that in every aspect! You simply cannot do your job to perfection unless everybody else does too!
There are two sayings one always must remember when looking at a football player(s)....YOU ARE ONLY AS GOOD AST HE GUY BLOCKING IN FRONT OF YOU, AND THE GUY BLOCKING IS ONLY AS GOOD AS THE GUY BEHIND HIM! And, YOUR TEAMS' SUCCESS GOES ONLY AS FAR AS THE FIVE FAT GUYS WILL TAKE YOU!
Once people recognize these truths, then maybe they will stop putting the unproportional amount of credit/blame toward the quarterback! I really like that statement about Delhomme, BIGREDMACHINE! I recently heard on these boards, I believe, on how he has guts, etc.... and all the stuff you usually hear, but now it must be gone. Funny how that changes.
People say I rely too much on stats, and in baseball it reveals most truths...and people somehow think I haven't played, thus the reason I dispell common perceptions. Well, it is just the opposite, I have played plenty, and I know full well when I pitched my best game ever, and the team scored zero runs for me, AND the catcher has a passed ball in the ninth with a man on third to lose the game(which the runner got on via error), I know EXACTLY what it feels like. In fact, the people that accuse me of stuff like that are probably the ones who truly do not understand, just like they don't when they blame/overcredit the QB in football. That is the same way. Maybe they've never had guys miss their blocking assignment only to have themselves lying on their back, or a receiver runnning a route incorrectly, or a defender constantly getting penalties. THE LIST GOES ON AND ON AND ON.
As for Marino... in his playoff losses 'his' defense gave up 27,38,31,44,29,22,37,17,38, and 62 points. Over blamers, wouldn't it be a no-brainer that the steel curtain defense on his side would have given him a few Super Bowls? Yeah, he ended up having interceptions in those games, but that happens a lot when you are forced to pass and the whole world knows it. There is always an aspect missing from the team when they are not championship caliber, be it a defense, a running game, or an O-Line...all things out of the QB's control.
As for Elway, he won something like his last seven playoff games, in part thanks to him, and LARGELY in part to his offesnive line, Terrel Davis, and his defense. His previous Super Bowls?? How about 37, 42, and 55?? Now, those aren't pant sizes of his line, those are the point totals his defesne gave up. Even if the defense or everyone else plays well, it still doesnt' mean the QB can't have a bad game, or a few bad games himself either. Every QB has bad games in the season. There are soo few playoff games that the sample size is so darn small that the bad games often don't have time enough to even out, and vice versa with the good games.
Look how quickly Troy Aikman's playoff fortunes changed when his teammates changed. Just go down the list for all of them. Joe Montana leaves SF to go to KC, do they win a SUPER BOWL? No. But his former team did without him.
I sometimes come off as condescending, well maybe from disbelief of things I hear, and I hate to say it as it usually has no bearing, but sometimes guys that haven't played before truly don't understand.
I'm going to go back and watch some tapes of Bob Griese throwing 10 passes while his defense and running game make him a HOF QB. Then maybe I will remember when Bradshaw received the same thing, and how he got bailed out in the playoffs with a couple of INT's, and horrible passing numbers, yet he still won because his defense allowed single digits. Or maybe how Lynn Swann grabbed some jump balls that any QB in the league could throw.
With all this credit going towards the QB, I am amazed any RB's, or WR ever get elected to the Hall of Fame, let alone any defensive players or O-Line. Maybe they should have a junior Hall of Fame for them since their contributions to titles doesn't mean that much...well according to the myth believers it doesn't.
P.S. DGF, great post... you nailed it.
<< <i>He does not want that title of course but he sure looks like it.
"He was a great quarterback but........" you know the rest of the sad legacy. >>
I know this is old now but now Peyton has a title, Dan Marino can go cry some where else. I am happy for Manning hes a great QB with good stats. Though I wonder how long he has got left in him, hes got to catch up at least one more superbowl win would be nice.
Happy to see Manning get the title, but that is quite a strong comment on Marino. Marino you could put in an argument as the best quarterback of all time, Manning you could only argue the best quarterback of today.
Anyone see that cool throw Marino made at his HOF speech?
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>"I know this is old now but now Peyton has a title, Dan Marino can go cry some where else."
Happy to see Manning get the title, but that is quite a strong comment on Marino. Marino you could put in an argument as the best quarterback of all time, Manning you could only argue the best quarterback of today.
Anyone see that cool throw Marino made at his HOF speech?
Mark >>
Well lets see Manning finish his career first before we even compare him to Marino. I too am happy that he got his title but just like Marino I still say he did not need that Super Bowl win to someday put him up there with other HOF calibre QB's
With your alias only being a month old, what caused you to bring up a year old thread?
<< <i>Gonblott,
With your alias only being a month old, what caused you to bring up a year old thread? >>