1995 penny struck on dime -PICS ADDED-first post-Mint product or fake?

laurentyvan

While on vacation this summer with another couple, an odd kleenex-wrapped coin was shown me. It was a 1995 penny struck on a dime planchet. I doubted its authenticity until recently when the same coin was described here in a post that I can't track down.

Is anyone familiar with this coin or the particulars surrounding it?

It looks like the dime was overstruck as there are small elements of the dime reverse showing under the penny strike. Well struck, very clean, so much so that I couldn't figure out how someone could have faked it. Is this authentic?



(luckily the coins owner is a neighbor and I ran next door to get it)

OffMetal

From your description, it sounds authentic.

Depending on condition and if it is slabbed, it is worth around $500-$1,000

cladking

If real it would be a cent struck on a struck dime.

These are often faked on older coins by pushing them together under a lot of force. It would
be difficult and take many impressions with zinc on cu/ ni clad. A genuine coin would have the
dime detail not in mirror image.

laurentyvan

If real it would be a cent struck on a struck dime.

This is correct and what it appears to be.

These are often faked on older coins by pushing them together under a lot of force.

At first this was my take on it but you can clearly see the statue of Lincoln on the reverse. I can't imagine this tiny detail would show so well if coins were simply forced together

astrorat

What you actually described is known as a double denomination, a cent struck over a dime (aka an 11 cent piece) and not a cent struck on a dime planchet. The latter would show no remaining dime design elements on the final coin.

Lane

laurentyvan

At first this was my take on it but you can clearly see the statue of Lincoln on the reverse. I can't imagine this tiny detail would show so well if coins were simply forced together

and not a cent struck on a dime planchet.

Again, I revise my statement- a penny struck on a dime-not a dime planchet. I have edited the title to reflect this.

laurentyvan

ttt I could really use an answer...

DorkGirl

I think that it looks like it needs to be submitted to a grading company for authentication. It's either real, or a really good fake, IMHO.

NumisOxide

Heres some more info.Link

gxseries

THAT SEEMS TO BE LIKE AN OVERSTRIKE! 1995 Penny overstrike on 1995 P dime?

While the obverse may seem to suggest that it is an overstrike, the reverse side is what worries me. When an overstrike occurs, most details on the flat plane should disappear whereas the left side of the dime is unusually clear unless the planchet was struck unevenlly which may lead to how it managed to leave such details.

(and you know I collect Russian overstriked coins...)

CoinAddict

Here is one for sale that looks almost exactly like that one but is a 1991.

laurentyvan

Thanks to all of you for your comments.

This link from coinJP was interesting. I really wouldn't push the issue except for the fact that many visual characteristics of the coin featured in coinJP's link seem to be similar to the coin I've imaged. When you look at the extreme doubling and tripling and appearant displacement on the reverse, one can almost see in their minds eye the original dime jumping from impact and turning slightly after the (multiple)? strike.

I'm not sure how that would occur- is it mechanically possible?

gx, would that I had a Russian copper or silver that had that kind of an overstrike. You've got to believe that they exist...

cladking

It looks all wrong but faking this is so difficult that if the weight is right I'd suspect it's genuine.

The weight will be right.


Oops. Edited to add that it doesn't look so wrong as I first thought. The strong "merica" from the dime corresponds to the bottom of Lincoln's portrait. I'm pretty confident it's good.

PerryHall

<< <i>I think that it looks like it needs to be submitted to a grading company for authentication. It's either real, or a really good fake, IMHO. >>



I agree. Major mint error are heavily faked and should be authenticated by one of the major TPGS. Grade is less of a concern for a coin like this but authentication is highly recommended.

laurentyvan

I'm going to weigh this on Monday and I'll let you know.

What made me think initially that this was genuine was the excellence (is this the right word)? of the strike and the mistakes.

Coinaddict provided an outstanding link that shows the near-twin to this one, certified by PCGS. ($1150)!! This error seems to exist as a genuine one; whether or not the coin under discussion is an imitation remains to be resolved but again, the overall quality of the errors do not seem to indicate anything but a genuine strike. Isn't the seated Lincoln figure easily visible on the reverse (and it wasn't a great photograph) an indication of that?

authentication is highly recommended.[/ In this case, I couldn't agree more!!!

Ed to include responses.

CaptHenway

Looks legit to me.
Tom D.

gxseries

Indeed. What shocked me the most is that the similarity of the angle of striking as well as the same mint that did the same error back in 1991. If both coins had the same year, I could have given more understanding, but given the year gap, I highly doubt it's some internal mint mischef though. Perhaps one bad explaination would be that the converyor belt transporting the dimes got dropped off into the pennies and hence the overstrike, but how it ended up with the same angle, I have no explaination. It could be possible that a mint employee shoved a dime with the text liberty on the left as the top (i.e. belt moving from right to left) and hence struck that way.

One should not compare Russian overstrikes with US though. It seems that most of the Russian overstrikes are accounted for and rarely attempted these days (unless the mint employees are fooling around) and that they ended in the early 1800s. I currently have 11 overstriked Russian coins (you can check at omnicoin) but yours is a definate example of what an overstrike should be like. On the other hand, I see US overstrikes as rarely attempted due to the total ugliness (which is a good thing) and hence attempted as either trial coins that should have been scrapped right away but didn't or genuine mint error or mint employee mischef.

Otherwise, just send the coin right away for authetication!!! Now you are making me darn jealous for having such an excellent overstruck coin.

Edited to add link: Check this link for darkside overstruck coins

LALASD4

Looks good to me.

rottnrog

It looks like the real thing to me!!

Good find!!!

Conder101

It is genuine.

coinnut86

Send it in!

jonathanb

It's real. There is absolutely no need for authentication.

BUT... it might still be worth getting it slabbed. Double-denomination coins are yet another hot sub-area of a hot market. Pieces like this "should" be worth $700-800, and that's what they're still selling for in error venues. But if a mainstream collector gets involved, the prices go way up. I've seen $1500 often enough that I'm not surprised any more, although I wouldn't pay that. A similar piece, slabbed at "only" PCGS MS-65, sold at the latest ANR auction for $2875. That's wacky, like the silver dollar planchet that sold recently at Heritage for $7000+. Given the starting bid of $450, you can assume that the ANR folks were figuring a sale price in the $900-$1500 range, so I don't know how that one got where it did.

Because the copper-nickel alloy of the dime planchet is quite a bit harder than the copper/zinc of cent planchets, 11c pieces tend to avoid most of the bagmarks that they'd ordinarily acquire. Grades of MS-66 are common, and I was speaking to a board member recently who said he was trying to put together a date set in MS-67. That'll take a while, but should be doable.

My advice: slab it if you want it slabbed, slab it if you want to sell it, but don't bother slabbing it for authentication purposes -- it's unquestionably authentic.

jonathan

fountainheadgold

I agree it is real

PerryHall

You guys can not authenticate this coin from that pic. Some really convincing counterfeit errors have been created by overstriking real coins with high quality false dies. John Devine's counterfeit detection books have some really good pics of these coins. While this coin is probably real, it needs to be authenticated by an expert who has the coin in hand.

tmot99

If it is real (which I would have absolutely no clue), I wouldn't have a second thought about sending it in for authentication at PCGS. It can only add to the value and make it easier to sell whether that is your current intention or not.