False advertising??? What do you think?

Vintagegolfcollector

I know this happens from time to time but would like to know what other collectors think about this practice.

When a high grade card is advertised in an auction on Ebay as 1/1 or 1/2 and the seller has just had another card graded in the same grade, do you think it dishonest to advertise the card with the unupdated population report or should you report the new population report?

Davalillo

Dishonest--but don't the pop reports update when the item is shipped so interested buyers can check for themselves?

bsocha

I dont think thats the case as to when they update. I thought it was each monday morning. The card(s) in question had already been graded and the person selling the 1/1 card already had a 2nd card graded thus knew the population was really a 2. I won the 1/1 card and the population was still 1 last night and updated to 2 this morning (which is what I expected since this seller wouldnt be selling the 1/1 without having another one on the way).

helionaut

A couple years ago, a PSA person confirmed on these boards that the pop report updated every monday morning. I can't recall exactly what was updated, though, all graded cards or just the ones shipped, or what. That might have changed in the interval, though. I don't think it's categorically dishonest to say that a card is a 1/1 if you just had one graded. The seller might not know that there's a delay between grading and updating, or if he does, he might not've known that his card wasn't included in the report. And as always, buyer beware. If population is the primary reason why you are paying a certain amount for a card, you should be aware of the ins and outs of the pop report as much as a seller should.

Wabittwax

The pop report definately does not update once the cards are shipped. I've run into that many times. Usually I get the cards back and already have them on Ebay before the pop report is updated. And yes, that is dishonest if the seller knowingly does that. But, I assume sometimes the seller is not aware of it.

dakota

Pop reports update on Monadays

Axtell

How false can it be? How entirely accurate can the pop report be, anyways?

How many cracks and resubmits have been done over the years? Crossovers to other companies?

Buying into the 1/1 or whatever 'low pop!' is just asking to lose money.

Boopotts

<< <i>How false can it be? How entirely accurate can the pop report be, anyways?

How many cracks and resubmits have been done over the years? Crossovers to other companies?

Buying into the 1/1 or whatever 'low pop!' is just asking to lose money. >>



Wha?

The pop. report can be 100% accurate if it says the pop. is '1'. How could it be otherwise?

BTW, Axtell, I love your sig line

WinPitcher

I disagree boo.

even a 1/1 can be cracked and then you have 0

Steve

Boopotts

<< <i>I disagree boo.

even a 1/1 can be cracked and then you have 0

Steve >>



Technically, yes. But consider the context of the post I was responding to. The argument was that because of crack and submits the pops in the pop report are higher than the 'actual' population. But if you have a 1/1 there's no way this can be.

bsocha

Though you dont see a whole lot of people cracking PSA 9 1/1 that are almost 80 years old out of holders hoping to get it graded a 10. Its not like someone is going to find a wax box of 1928 golf cards sitting in their grandfathers closet. Saying that its just asking to lose money is naive. That might be true on modern stuff, but on vintage cards you seldom see people "losing money" buying 1/1 PSA 9's.

1/1 pops on pre war cards do command a premium, especially to set collectors. Advertising something as 1/1 knowing full well that it has a population of 2 because you just got a 2nd one graded is not on the up and up. There are certain cards where the pops are so low that all the collectors know where they are. For example, the 1931 Churchman PSA 8 Hagen. There are only 2 and if one of the 2 happened to pop up on ebay I'm guessing there are certain people who would bid high for it because there are only 2. If I just got 2 more graded as PSA 8's yet put the 8 I own on Ebay and listed it as 1/2 without letting anyone know that there were 2 more about to hit the population report I would feel it would be dishonest because I know pop 2 is not accurate thus I'm advertising something that I know is not accurate and taking advantage of the system by ending an auction on Sunday while knowing the pop report will be updated on Monday.

Again, I knew the 1/1 I bid on was about to become a 2. If I wasnt familiar with the seller and didnt know this then I'd have an issue with him advertising a card as such while knowing it wasnt.

WinPitcher

bsocha

That goes w/o saying. When i posted I was thinking modern all the way. I should have been more specific. The fact remains that 1/1 can also be a misleading pop. At the same time their are sets where 1/1 could be a 3 and someone could send it to SGC. But yes I agree the chance od someone cracking a Psa 9 1/1 is slim.

Steve

edit to add stuff and typos

The post we are replying to makes no mention that the pops be of vintage cards only.

and ............ Boo, Brian mentioned Crossovers to other companies?

bsocha

Win, you're right about the thread not mentioning vintage. My bad. This topic started in the vintage golf thread where a well known collector was selling some rare and low pop stuff over the weekend and advertised the pops knowing they were wrong since he had newly graded cards that werent added to the population report yet. We were trying to see if others felt it was only right to let people know that something is really a 1/2 instead of a 1/1 if you're selling the 1 if you know full well there are really 2 of them.

WinPitcher

Bsocha

Absolutley, if a seller knows he has another one coming and the pop does not reflect it he most certaintly should claim it is a 1/2.

Not mentioning a pop at all is even underhanded.

Steve


I didn't know about the other post.

Vintagegolfcollector

Thanks all for your replies. I was more interested in seeing if the responses would be similiar to my own feelings, and they were for the most part. The particular instance involved a vintage card from the 1920s and the seller owned the 1/1. I don't know for sure he is responsible for the 2nd card in grade but I'm fairly certain he knows the card he was selling was no longer a 1/1. I'm sure in the next week or two the new card will show in his set. This just happens to hit a cord with me.

I used general instances because I know for sure a couple of years ago that a dealer had advertised a PSA 10 as a 1/1 and it was a newly graded PSA 10, then population 2 without the population report upgraded. I know this because I had bought the first PSA 10 a year or two earlier from the seller and he was then advertising the second card as a 1/1 PSA 10 also. He's a large volume dealer so it's possible he didn't realize and it's also possible with his volume that several people are involved with the submitting and selling of the cards. Still, certain cards do sell for more especially if they are low population high grade cards.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Peter