Possible way to scam legally?

WinPitcher

Big Red machine has a thread regarding the 84 Elway and it's 10k reserve.

many have placed bids and it is up to 8k.

Not saying this particular dealer is doing this.

But since you can lower the reserve at anytime what would stop someone from claiming a reserve is 10k Then lowering 30 minutes before the auction ends? Retractions are not allowed at that point.

Steve

BigtimeBowmanfan

earlycalguy

maybe you can't change the reserve with less than 12 hour remaining? either way - why would you bid $8k if you did not want to pay the 8K, regardless of what the reserve is.

earlycalguy

you can also just end the auction early and sell to the highest bidder (within ebay) - would this be any different than lowering the reserve price?

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Big Red machine has a thread regarding the 84 Elway and it's 10k reserve.

many have placed bids and it is up to 8k.

Not saying this particular dealer is doing this.

But since you can lower the reserve at anytime what would stop someone from claiming a reserve is 10k Then lowering 30 minutes before the auction ends? Retractions are not allowed at that point.

Steve >>

I dont think you can change details like that with less then 12 hours left. I think?

Matt

julen23

true dat.

time limitations exist to prevent this very type of action

Julen

WinPitcher

Not sure if I made myself clear,

In another thread an 84 elway is on ebay.

the seller has said the reserve is 10k

some folks have bid and it is up to 8k.

a poster there claimed that because it is under the reserve that those people (a few have bids in the thousands) could not possibly get hurt.

I went to ebay and there it states that a reserve can be lowered at anytime regardless of bids. this is why I was asking.


A bidder knowing that the reserve is 10k bids 8k (for whatever reason) with less then 12 hrs he/she can no longer retract. the seller though can lower the reserve thereby making someone back into a win.


Steve other thread




From Ebay help page:
Lowering your reserve or Buy It Now price You can lower the reserve or Buy It Now price any time before your reserve is met, or your listing ends.

gregmadduxfan

You may want to check your ebay info a little more. I believe that you can not change your reserve once there have been bids placed, regardless of the the 12 hour rule.

lawnmowerman

<< <i>Not sure if I made myself clear,

In another thread an 84 elway is on ebay.

the seller has said the reserve is 10k

some folks have bid and it is up to 8k.

a poster there claimed that because it is under the reserve that those people (a few have bids in the thousands) could not possibly get hurt.

I went to ebay and there it states that a reserve can be lowered at anytime regardless of bids. this is why I was asking.


A bidder knowing that the reserve is 10k bids 8k (for whatever reason) with less then 12 hrs he/she can no longer retract. the seller though can lower the reserve thereby making someone back into a win.


Steve other thread >>

Well I guess they would be happy to get for $2k less. If not they shouldnt be bidding.

Matt

WinPitcher

I then read this:


sorry for the confusion


However, if you lower the reserve or Buy It Now price below the high bidder's maximum bid, the high bidder's maximum bid is lowered to $1.00 below the new reserve

WinPitcher

from the ebay page:

maybe you can back in still:

What is allowed What happens
Lowering your reserve or Buy It Now price You can lower the reserve or Buy It Now price any time before your reserve is met, or your listing ends. When a reserve or Buy It Now price is lowered, all bidders are notified by email. No information about the new price is revealed.

However, if you lower the reserve or Buy It Now price below the high bidder's maximum bid, the high bidder's maximum bid is lowered to $1.00 below the new reserve price. In this case, your new reserve price is sent to the high bidder by email. This allows the high bidder to confirm that they are still interested in the item.

If you lower the Buy It Now price below the reserve price, the reserve price is lowered to the same amount as the new Buy It Now price.


edited to add: Can someone explain that in plain english?

jayhawke

I did not read ebay's policy, but if a bidder bid 8K, isn't that what they are willing to pay for the auction. Thus, if the seller lowered the reserve, the buyer would be happy they won. I don't see how either party would be hurt.

ctsoxfan

I agree with that - if the buyer is attempting to "scam" people by backing into a reserve that way, then the people who bid deserve to get scammed. Why bid an amount, any amount, if you are not prepared to pay that amount if you win with it?

MuckyMutt

When you place a bid on ebay you'd better be prepared to buy the item for that amount. I read one instance where someone had place a bid for $127.80 - but they meant to bid $12.78. So they contacted the seller to cancel the bid. In the meantime, bidder #2 places a bid of $8.00 (the high bid showing was $7.50), that pushes the high bid to $8.50. Bidder #2 continued to bid in smaller increments 12 more times! His last bid was $75.00! Then the seller comes along and cancels the erroneous bid from bidder #1. Guess who has the high bid now? That's right bidder #2! The story continues though - bidder #2, figuring that he couldn't get that item, went and won another auction for the same item at $11.00. Then the next day, he's notified that he won the first auction at $48.00!! Ebay held him responsible for the auction and he ended up getting a strike because he wouldn't pay for it.
When you place a bid, the screen has this message:
"By clicking on the button below, you commit to buy this item from the seller if you're the winning bidder." It says nothing about being the "highest" bidder or not - it says the "winning" bidder. That is not known until the auction is over. Another possibility is when a high bidder is NARU'd by Ebay before an auction ends - his bids are cancelled and the second highest bid becomes the highest bid.

I'm just putting this info out here so you understand how ebay works. And in the example of this Elway card, it's perfectly proper for the seller to lower his reserve if he wants. That's not a scam.

mikeschmidt

In plain English-

If the seller lowers the reserve to $6,000 and the current bidding is at $8,000 - the high bid suddenly becomes $5,999.00 - and the reserve is not met. At that point - any of the biddings, if so inclined, can bid $6,000 and meet the reserve, but there is no obligation to anyone until someone bids, again, over $6,000

jmbkb4

Bottom line: If you're bidding on a reserve auction and do not meet the reserve, you'll never be obligated to buy the item, unless you bid again...

WinPitcher

Thanks Marc I thought that was it after re reading the thing a few times.




Mucky that happened to me once. The hi bidder got naru and I backed into about 4 cards. Luckily the seller was a fellow CU member and allowed me a week to pay. i wanted the cards only i won more then I wanted to. Once I was outbid on a few I went and bidded on others.



Steve

iamthegreatcornholio

the rules of setting a reserve prevent that from happening, but i'm still a little confused as to the spirit of the thread... shill bidders aside, who would bid on an item they don't want?

WinPitcher

Brian

Some people bid knowing they won't win so they can track the item.

This all stemmed from a comment made on another thread.

A known reserve was set at 10k.

some peeps bid it up to 8k.

Knowing that the reserve is at 10k yet they bid to 8.

maybe they would get an email after the auction saying "ok 8k and it is yours?


I was just wondering cuz I remm that a reserve could be lowered at anytime I just was not sure what the ramifications were.


Steve


edit The auction I was referring too The 84 elway. the hi bid is at 9.999.99 the reserve is 10k so it is a penny under at this mioment anyway.

iamthegreatcornholio

<< <i>The auction I was referring too The 84 elway. the hi bid is at 9.999.99 the reserve is 10k so it is a penny under at this mioment anyway. >>



oh ok, i see where you're coming from now. that is kinda funny - i guess done to spite? and it looks like a shill to other bidders.

Stone193

<< <i>Some people bid knowing they won't win so they can track the item >>


Steve
I've heard people say this.

I don't understand.

I just place items on my watch list without bidding.

Happy New Year
mike

WinPitcher

I agree Mike however I have doen it just in case i win at a lower price.

for instance, a card I would like that is usually 50.00 I'll toss a 25.00 bid and ya never know. I have also placed a nominal bid say...a buck on a 1000.00 card just to watch it. I do not understand why anyone would bid 9.999.99 on a card knowing/thinking the reserve is 10k Id be scared that the seller made a "mistake" and my 9.999.99 bid did meet the reserve. Especially for a 1984 Topps Elway!! LOL


I guess different strokes for different folks.

Steve