What determins Flat strike, weak strike? - I'm new to Morgans

psxchelly

Hey guys... I am thinking about starting to collect Morgans. I have 3 I was given already. A Carson City Morgan, and 2 commons.

I have been reading a couple coin publications, and noticed stuff about Weak Strike, Flat Strike, etc.

What determins that? The year of the coin? The Mint they were made at? What is the difference between a weakly struk coin and one that appears to be MS60 ?

The book says that certain areas of the face, and certain areas of the bird chest are important in grading, so the different strikes are confusing me. Because sometimes you see coins without visible breast feathers, and a nice face area that are MS63. Other times you can have a coin with a nice face a lots of breast featers at MS60.

Michelle

coinspeculator

weak strike
A term used to describe a coin that does not show intended detail because of improper striking pressure or improperly aligned dies.

worn out dies can leave you with a flat strike...

with morgans look at the word liberty in here hair for detail.
the Y is somtimes weak.

I like to buy mine slabed or origanal rolls..

mabey some other members can give you more info.

look to the 1878 7/8TF Strong in the price guide click on the number next to it for a detailed picture..

it showes strong or weak for this year morgan..

BAJJERFAN

The detail in the hair above the ear can oftimes be an indicator of strike quality as can the details of the feathers on the eagle's breast.

Coins from the New Orleans mint are notorious for their weakness of strike and this accounts for the paucity of coins graded ms66 or better from years in the mid-90's. Coins struck from worn dies only compound the problem. The hair above the ears and sharpness of the eagle's breast feathers can also be used as indicators of circulation wear. The best thing is to look at lots of slabbed examples.
This 1882 graded ms65 by PCGS is a good example of strike.



Here is an 1890-o with considerable flatness over the ear and poor breast feather detail which was graded ms63 by PCGS and is a good example of weak strike with worn dies. In this case other indicators such as wear spots on the cotton bolls are used to discern wear from strike.

TorinoCobra71

Great Advice BAJJERFAN! The area above the Ear IS the best way to determine strike quality. New Orleans Mint Morgans were notorious for Weak Strikes

TorinoCobra71

DorkGirl

A flat strike can be found from any of the mints. But typically O and P are the worst.


"with morgans look at the word liberty in here hair for detail.
the Y is somtimes weak."

This is not true. I think he is thinking of Barbers. Even a Morgan worn down to AG has a full liberty.

keets

on any issue there are high points on the coin which is the corresponding deepest recess in the dies, the last place where metal needs to flow to give a full strike and sharp detail. on Morgan Dollars that obverse area is generally the hair detail just above the ear and on the reverse it's the central breast feathers of the eagle. most often on a weak struck coin----most Morgans, actually----that hair detail is weak.

as the dies wear the strike quality only gets worse, for two reasons; detail is lost and the "missing" die metal requires more planchet flow to completely fill the die.

nwcs

Remember that on uncirc coins the unstruck area (or weak strike area) will still display some luster.

keets

good point. i've scored nicely on some coins at local clubs that had been listed as XF-AU because of weak detail, the result of a clashed die that had been re-worked. safe so long as luster is present to distinguish from rub.

Coxe

Some S mint years are also bad for flat strikes, 1901-S in particular. Here is one in a registry set of mine.

1901-S Flat DMPL

MAD4MORGANS

From my readings, minting pressures were often reduced to extend the life of the Morgan Dies.

Also sometimes the design relief of the Morgan Dollars was too high resulting in flat spots in the high areas of the coin (Liberty's hair and the Eagles breast).

psxchelly

I guess I am having trouble determining "wear" and "weak strike".

To me, some of the weak strike coins look like its been worn down.

Michelle

keets

wear won't have luster present as you tilt the coin.

Coxe

What is meant by that is when you tip the coin, you cannot miss the "dead" spots. Rub a brand new Sac dollar from the bank and tip it in the light and you'll see the effect of a rub pretty easily.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Other times you can have a coin with a nice face a lots of breast featers at MS60. >>



Hits, dings, scratches, rim damage from handling, transporting, etc. are what separates the higher grade coins from the ms60's. The larger exposed surface area on the Morgan obverse is more prone to damage than the reverse is and most Morgans have a better reverse than obverse. It is said that the main reason that the Carson City minted Morgans are more beatup AKA baggy is because the bags were bounced around in the back of wagons on pretty bumpy trails on their way to a new destination. It is probly for this reason too that PCGs smoetimes cuts them a little more slack in the grading room.

MikeInFL

<< <i>
What determins that? The year of the coin? The Mint they were made at? What is the difference between a weakly struk coin and one that appears to be MS60 ?
>>



Hello Michelle,

Others in this thread have given you good information. I'll only add that there is a great online resource to lots of pictures of different Morgans, and it's free. If you haven't already done so, get an account at Heritage and take a look at their auction archives -- you'll have literally thousands of high resolution pictures and after viewing lots of pictures you'll get a better feel for the differences. Short of looking at lots of coins in-hand, this is the best resource out there, IMHO.

Happy holidays...Mike

morgannut2

Great answers/photos above--You seem not to understand the way to tell WEAR from WEAK STRIKE. Your answer is the areas of weak strike generally are NOT the SAME as the first points to show wear. Someone can give a better list, but look at the eagle's claws and the Wing Tips on the reverse for wear, and the cotton balls, center of cheek (for ticks), etc on the obverse (front)--Look for discoloration/wear and lost detail at those points, not the hair over the ear (strike)









edited for spelling--

Coxe

Wing tips too. The breast feathers, alas, can suffer both by wear and by strike.

It was a good question too because it has always been a problem for a lot of people to make the distinction.