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blunder by pcgs ms 66

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  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭
    Why not? I would want to see it in person to be sure the leg is not worn and see the strike strength.....very hard to judge the leg with that level toning. Gorgeous reverse.

    BTW, seller is a member here.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭
    Impossible to grade with the toning and those pics. image
  • coinlieutenantcoinlieutenant Posts: 9,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Darin is a great dealer and board member. Hard to say whether it is low or high end, but I would suspect that it is nice.

    J
  • HadleydogHadleydog Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭
    I just noticed the seller was Darin.
    Good guy, and I'll also bet the coin is really nice. image
  • TUMUSSTUMUSS Posts: 2,207


    << <i>I just noticed the seller was Darin.
    Good guy, and I'll also bet the coin is really nice. image >>



    image
  • LucyBopLucyBop Posts: 14,001 ✭✭✭
    those images need some work.
    imageBe Bop A Lula!!
    "Senorita HepKitty"
    "I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
  • show em how to do it lucy!image
    How much for that one
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,547 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very weak strike. Miss Liberty has no left hand!!!

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Coinspeculator - Why do you have a problem with this coin?
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • I'll bet that coin looks really nice in person. The pic looks like a scan, which is really muting the color and luster.

    I think the coin is likely a legit MS66 -- I would buy it, but I like to see the hand detail struck a bit better at that grade level. But that color . . . . image
  • Unable to tell by the pics. Could very well be a blunder. Would have to see it in person.image However, the seller is a cool and reputable fellow, and member of our forum.



    Tom
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • It's very hard to find WLs with color. I think the coin would look better in hand also.
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That coin looks BEAUTIFUL in hand. If any one of you can tell if it is truly not and MS-66 from those pics then why in the hell aren't you grading professionally? If your eyes were that good, you should be seven-figure per year graders!

    BTW...I've never known Darin to buy marginal or junk material.

    Cheers,

    Bob
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think the coin would look better in hand also. >>

    Even if it doesn't, I think it looks just fine (in fact, quite attractive) in the images.

    Here's a PCGS MS67 example that brought $4887 in November. I'll take Darin's MS66 Ebay offering at less than 10% of that, thank you.image

    obverse image

    reverse image
  • Darin's one of the best on this board. I'd buy sight unseen any coin,any slab any time!!!!image
    Larry
  • darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    Darin, sells nice stuff and this coin is no exception. mike
  • hahah made you post.
    i was a little sad that no one would answer my penny question.
    i new you guys would post to this one..
    on the walker the stars dont seem to have any detail?
    also the coin looks like it has some lime scale on the front.
  • hahah made you post


    Damn...He got me.image



    Tom
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • big D has a great eye, he wouldnt have bought the coin if the grade didnt represent whats incased image
    image

    Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
  • tmot99tmot99 Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't begin to give this coin a grade, nor do I know Darin. But I will say I think it's funny that many people commented about how nice the coin is, that they would buy it from him sight unseen, yet no one has done the BIN.
  • Tmot99

    You mean you can't comment without buying-----now that's funny.image
    Larry
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    Don't judge the coin by the man's picture taking ability image

    I actually saw the coin in hand at last Sunday's Nashua coin show.

    A lot of 5XXXXXXX holder coins favored eye appeal versus technical grade, and this coin is a prime example.

    Most 64's I have are equal to this coin in their surfaces/state of preservation, but this coin has better eye appeal than this picture shows.

    This is an illustration of what we today call market grading...meaning "this coin should sell for MS66 money".

    Personally the coin does absolutely nothing for me, but heck I bought a coin for 2x what I should've paid and it did nothing for others image

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    i like the overall look of the coin but methinks mercurydimeguy has figured things out; to wit, market grading. there's always another option for those so inclined, crack it out and send it to NGC for an upgrade to MS67!!!!image
  • dthigpendthigpen Posts: 3,932 ✭✭


    << <i>hahah made you post.
    i was a little sad that no one would answer my penny question.
    i new you guys would post to this one..
    on the walker the stars dont seem to have any detail?
    also the coin looks like it has some lime scale on the front. >>



    What an idiot.
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Darin usually has some very nice comments from people that have purchased from him.

  • BECOKABECOKA Posts: 16,961 ✭✭✭
    I would bet with the right photographer the true colors that allowed this to remain a 66 will show up. I bet the coin is much better in person. Not too bad from the photos.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 44,458 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Okay, someone is going to have a rebuttal to this, but in my professional (choke choke) opinion, and in my candid ( ha ha ) opinion, this is one case where YOU SHOULD BUY THE PLASTIC , NOT THE COIN image
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    << I was a little sad that no one would answer my penny question>> This happens to everyone coinspeculator, don't take it personally---------------------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • I have purchased coins from Darin and have been more than pleased

    First class
    Dave
    In Laurel
    MD

    Just a fist full of Dollars
  • What's with you all giving Spec credibility by 1) not debating his thread title, thereby implying you agree, and 2) going after Darin, out of the blue. There's a lot of #2 going on here lately. It's unseemly, and makes it appear that the coin forum has become a free fire zone for anyone criticizing another member's items for sale, without questionig their motivation, or their bona fides in doing so. Have you all forgotten this guy's earlier threads, or his attack on Jeremy, for which a mod said he was going to be bammed, but which did not occur for some reason? I don't have a "don't feed the troll" icon, but would use it here if I did.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

    image
  • dthigpendthigpen Posts: 3,932 ✭✭


    << <i>What's with you all giving Spec credibility by 1) not debating his thread title, thereby implying you agree, and 2) going after Darin, out of the blue. There's a lot of #2 going on here lately. It's unseemly, and makes it appear that the coin forum has become a free fire zone for anyone criticizing another member's items for sale, without questionig their motivation, or their bona fides in doing so. Have you all forgotten this guy's earlier threads, or his attack on Jeremy, for which a mod said he was going to be bammed, but which did not occur for some reason? I don't have a "don't feed the troll" icon, but would use it here if I did. >>



    image
  • coinspeculator, what is your ebay handle?
  • LanLordLanLord Posts: 11,722 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Huh? I see an awful lot of posts supporting Darin on this one.



    << <i>What's with you all giving Spec credibility by 1) not debating his thread title, thereby implying you agree, and 2) going after Darin, out of the blue. There's a lot of #2 going on here lately. It's unseemly, and makes it appear that the coin forum has become a free fire zone for anyone criticizing another member's items for sale, without questionig their motivation, or their bona fides in doing so. Have you all forgotten this guy's earlier threads, or his attack on Jeremy, for which a mod said he was going to be bammed, but which did not occur for some reason? I don't have a "don't feed the troll" icon, but would use it here if I did. >>

  • Darin is a great guy. I have bought from and sold to him on many occassions. Transactions have been in person as well as sight unseen. I was always satisified.


    Have a Great Day!
    Louis
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Lanlord:

    I believe that Pharmer is referring to this coinspeculator dickhead being a troll and for the ration of zhit he gave Jeremy over an off-color remark with regard to Jeremy's faith.

    Darin is a straight shooter and this coinspeculator dickhead seems to think he can grade Darin's WLH from a sketchy picture.
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    Wow! Take a look at this toned Pilgrim he has for sale! I would buy it but I already have one. looks nice-----------------------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow! Take a look at this toned Pilgrim he has for sale! I would buy it but I already have one. looks nice-----------------------------BigE >>



    I just tried and missed!!!...Mike
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I had that Pilgrim in my hand this weekend in Nashua. However, I bought his toned Vermont commem instead (already had a toned Pilgrim).

    That pilgrim is one nice coin for sure and for certain!

    Cheers,

    Bob
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I had that Pilgrim in my hand this weekend in Nashua. However, I bought his toned Vermont commem instead (already had a toned Pilgrim).

    That pilgrim is one nice coin for sure and for certain!

    Cheers,

    Bob >>



    Likewise, I checked out the Pilgrim also and it's a really cool coin. Almost makes me want to start collecting commem's.

    Darin is a GREAT!! guy.

    Every month I see him at the local coin shows, and come with my kids, he ALWAYS gives them a coin (even though I've tried paying him several times, he has refused).

    I've also tried to buy a coin from him but we haven't yet connected on a transaction...I'm sure we will, though.

    Also, just because a coin is one thing or another shouldn't change/morph this discussion in to one about Darin. The coin is in a PCGS holder and I believe PCGS slabbing this coin MS66 was the topic of this thread image



  • << <i>just because a coin is one thing or another shouldn't change morph this discussion in to one about Darin. The coin is in a PCGS holder and I believe PCGS slabbing this coin MS66 was the topic of this thread >>

    image

    Its amazing how some people can see every issue based on who we like or don't like. The poster is a troll and the seller is a good guy. So the coin must be a 66 or better.

    Let's talk about the coin!!!!!!!!

    It may be nice and have pretty colors which seems to add 2 points to the grade these days. Look at the obverse. I cannot believe that a Walker with a strike that weak could get to 66. The hand is totally flat, no fingers show and the flatness extends down the gown to the bottom of the coin.

    Unless strike is no longer considered as a criteria of grading I'd say they overgraded this one.
  • lol you guys are to funny.
    it has nothing to do with who is selling the coin.
    only that it may have aged poorly in the holder, or 2 it was given a higher grade based on the person who submitted it.
    it does not and i dont believe pcgs gives higher marks for colors.
    and swings there grading practice based on how pretty it looks..
    if anything an a+ or a star for the coin of ms 64-65 .
    it is this kind of overgrading that dealer frown upon.
    i was trying to sell some coins, and dealers say they are in the wrong holder for the grade . so go figure....
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What's with you all giving Spec credibility by 1) not debating his thread title, thereby implying you agree, and 2) going after Darin, out of the blue. There's a lot of #2 going on here lately. It's unseemly, and makes it appear that the coin forum has become a free fire zone for anyone criticizing another member's items for sale, without questionig their motivation, or their bona fides in doing so. Have you all forgotten this guy's earlier threads, or his attack on Jeremy, for which a mod said he was going to be bammed, but which did not occur for some reason? I don't have a "don't feed the troll" icon, but would use it here if I did.

    i think this post is way, way off the mark. first of all, several comments have been pro/con concerning the coina and secondly, noone seems to have said anything bad about the seller, quite to the contrary as Lanlord pointed out. besides that, many probably have no idea about any comments about Airplanenut, i certainly have no idea what that's about.
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I would suggest that you refrain from making snap judgments based on small picutres.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section


  • << <i>I would suggest that you refrain from making snap judgments based on small picutres. >>



    That picture looks awful big to me!!!!!!!! If you can't see the strike in that picture, don't ever buy off Ebay of online cause thats a big clear picture to me!!!



    << <i>the coin forum has become a free fire zone for anyone criticizing another member's items for sale, >>



    So we are not supposed to discuss coins, should we just concentrate on personalities instead???



    << <i>Darin is a straight shooter and this coinspeculator dickhead seems to think he can grade Darin's WLH from a sketchy picture.
    >>



    How many threads do we see that say, "hey, grade this one, or what do think this grade." Do we not grade from pictures all the time around here???



    << <i>Have you all forgotten this guy's earlier threads, >>



    Ahh, so now we get down to the issue, some people here have it in for the original poster.
  • robertprrobertpr Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭
    there's always another option for those so inclined, crack it out and send it to NGC for an upgrade to MS67!!!!

    Keets, do you really honestly believe you could grade that coin from that image, so well that not only do you know the coin is market graded and is a true 65, but also so well that you can predict with certainty what it would grade elsewhere?

    Such potshots at NGC made without even seeing the subject coin in hand certainly must be appreciated by PCGS and I know they are widely tolerated, but really you must get off the cool-aid, man. How do you know they wouldn't grade it MS63? How do you know they wouldn't bodybag it? How do you know they haven't already processed this coin and done one of those things to it?

    I will say this, I've dealt with Darin and he's a good guy. And no offense to Darin, but his images suck. I will also say that anyone making any assumptions based on those images, have got their head screwed on backward.
  • jayboxxjayboxx Posts: 1,613 ✭✭
    Based on the comments here, and the fact that Darin does have a return privilege on the coin, I wouldn't have a problem buying it if I was in the market for one. The best part about Coinspeculator's post it has probably driven people to look at Darin's coins that might not have ordinarily, so on that aspect good post image
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    I guess it boils down to: Does a weak obv strike preclude a 66?
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I guess it boils down to: Does a weak obv strike preclude a 66? >>



    Not on this series, IMHO.

    Here's a 66 I bought from Mark Feld. The strike is a bit stronger than the coin in quesiton, but it is still shows some weakness:

    image
    image

    They call it market grading for a reason...Mike
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,532 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I guess it boils down to: Does a weak obv strike preclude a 66? >>



    Not on this series, IMHO.

    Here's a 66 I bought from Mark Feld. The strike is a bit stronger than the coin in quesiton, but it is still shows some weakness:

    image
    image

    They call it market grading for a reason...Mike >>



    To the contrary, Mike. Yes, it DOES preclude a 66 grade, it just doesn't preclude a 66 label.

    As per established ANA grading standards: In order to grade higher than 65 a coin must be fully struck. Nowhere does it say "struck as well as this particular year/mm/denomination comes". And the coin in question isn't even struck well for a Walker--let alone fully struck.


    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
  • image

    How does the leg on the subject coin compare to this 1942, ms66

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