Complete raw set purchase gone bad!
natetrook
Posts: 613 ✭✭✭
Just purchased a raw 1969 Topps basketball "Tall-Boy" set from a dealer with over 1700 positive feedback.
No negatives. 6 cards were graded PSA 6's and 7's, and the set was listed as "high-grade, Near mint".
Set was listed at $1600 with a best offer. Offered $1150, and he took my offer.
What I received was the PSA cards, along with a very average EX to EX+ set. Several of the cards had hairline creases,
including the #99 checklist, listed as EX-unmarked, as well as some creased stars.
I e-mailed him immediately, stating the set was not in the advertised condition, and asked for a refund.
He refused, said I had buyer's remorse, and wouldn't take back the set, but offered to replace one of the stars.
I filed an E-Bay dispute, filed a paypal dispute, and called my credit card company to stop payment to paypal.
That got his attention, since he wouldn't get paid. After a few e-mail exchanges, he offered me $950 buy-back on the
set that I paid him $1,150, because of his time and paypal fees. I negotiated the refund to $1,000, and vouched to E-bay
that the transaction was cancelled so he could get his E-Bay fees back. My loss was $150 plus postage costs, but I'm guessing
I would have taken a bigger loss by relisting the set on E-Bay in its true Ex condition, with some VG creased cards.
Never again, will I buy a complete raw set. Too much room for people to bury creased cards in it. Thank gosh for PSA to grade cards
neutrally, and eliminate the trimmed and creased cards. That makes internet purchases so much safer.
Anyone had similar experiences, and did I get out relatively unscathed from the transaction? I know you should bid accordingly
on raw sets, everyone overgrades their card. But 2 full grades lower with creased cards from a supposedly reputable dealer?
Nate
No negatives. 6 cards were graded PSA 6's and 7's, and the set was listed as "high-grade, Near mint".
Set was listed at $1600 with a best offer. Offered $1150, and he took my offer.
What I received was the PSA cards, along with a very average EX to EX+ set. Several of the cards had hairline creases,
including the #99 checklist, listed as EX-unmarked, as well as some creased stars.
I e-mailed him immediately, stating the set was not in the advertised condition, and asked for a refund.
He refused, said I had buyer's remorse, and wouldn't take back the set, but offered to replace one of the stars.
I filed an E-Bay dispute, filed a paypal dispute, and called my credit card company to stop payment to paypal.
That got his attention, since he wouldn't get paid. After a few e-mail exchanges, he offered me $950 buy-back on the
set that I paid him $1,150, because of his time and paypal fees. I negotiated the refund to $1,000, and vouched to E-bay
that the transaction was cancelled so he could get his E-Bay fees back. My loss was $150 plus postage costs, but I'm guessing
I would have taken a bigger loss by relisting the set on E-Bay in its true Ex condition, with some VG creased cards.
Never again, will I buy a complete raw set. Too much room for people to bury creased cards in it. Thank gosh for PSA to grade cards
neutrally, and eliminate the trimmed and creased cards. That makes internet purchases so much safer.
Anyone had similar experiences, and did I get out relatively unscathed from the transaction? I know you should bid accordingly
on raw sets, everyone overgrades their card. But 2 full grades lower with creased cards from a supposedly reputable dealer?
Nate
0
Comments
Eyebone
<< <i>You will almost never find true high quality raw vintage on ebay. It's almost like a chicken and egg situation -bidders won't pay a decent price for high-quality raw vintage, so dealers won't list them on ebay, so the only raw listed in crap, so bidder won't pay a decent price. I think I'm dizzy now. >>
This has been true to date, but I bet is starts to change now that the price for graded commons in post 1962 sets has more or less bottomed out. I know if I got ahold of a nmt or nmt-mt 67 set, for instance, I'd pull any stars and low pops that were 8 or better, fill them in with either raw nmt cards or slabbed 7's and sell the thing raw.
I mean if the guy didn't deliver what was promised I would have pushed for a full refund. And what Paypal fees?? If he refunds you the money he isn't out one penny more then what you sent him to start with!
Once you get your $$ back please let us know who it is so I can avoid him like a bad rash! Seems like you gave up a little too easy.
<< <i>While I'm glad you got some of your money back I don't know why you decided to take it in the a** for $150.00
I mean if the guy didn't deliver what was promised I would have pushed for a full refund. And what Paypal fees?? If he refunds you the money he isn't out one penny more then what you sent him to start with!
Once you get your $$ back please let us know who it is so I can avoid him like a bad rash! Seems like you gave up a little too easy. >>
Also, I find that there is some good raw cards out there. We all have a different thought of vintage so I will say where I have had luck by years instead of vintage to modern. I am talking anywhere from 1960-1985. I have had a lot of success but I pay a little more and try to take less shots in the dark. There are quite few reputable raw dealers out there, and the people who know about them, continue to buy from them and drive the prices up. I also have been very weary of guys selling sets with 1-5or6 graded cards. If they know about grading they know the best cards in the set are worth more graded. Stay away from these auctions as they usually have put some of the low end graded stars from a high graded set with another crappy set they have sitting on the shelf to try and drive the price up by saying that 1-5 minor stars are 8's or 9's and the whole set is like that.
DSL has consistently bought raw sets from eBay and they always seem to come up with some good cards. There are guys out ther who have nice sets sitting in the closet and they list them as is. Those are the sets to buy. With big scans with the $$ cards shown. You rarely will get a good set with 2 cards in top loaders sitting on top of the rest of the set in a 500 card box.
Just my $.02 and I have tried to find the diamond in the ruff as well. You get burned 99 out of 100 times. But if you are disciplined and see a raw dealer with multiple repeat buyers, you likely will get good material and can judge the centering by the scan. These too are usually the honest dealers and may even work with you if you aren't satisfied.
edited to add: Most of my auctions are from raw purchases on eBay either singles, lots or sets. The rest come from box or case breaks. About a year ago I got (55) 1977 Mike Haynes rc's for $65. I have gotten 3 9's and about 15 8's, the last of which I currently have listed. I took a flyer on a dealer I never bought from before and the cards were awesome. I am still buying from him.
My Auctions
While I agree a fully slabbed set is nice, sometimes it isnt cost effective. Lets say you have a very strong psa 7,8, and some 9's in a raw 1973 set, Getting 600+ cards slabbed can be very costly, I personally would slab the stars, and leave the rest raw, set up a booth and let the offers come in for the complete set as people flip thru the pages.
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Sorry to hear about this.
I would like to know who the dealer is also.
You're a nice guy...I don't know if I would have been able to handle it that way.
As it goes for raw? I'm no expert but there are guys out there one can trust but don't expect any "steals" or "deals" - just good cards and an appropriate price.
Merry Christmas
<< <i>As it goes for raw? I'm no expert but there are guys out there one can trust but don't expect any "steals" or "deals" - just good cards and an appropriate price.
Merry Christmas >>
Very true Mike, very true.
Merry Christmas
My Auctions
If you decide to break up that '54 topps set, you should get back at least the $150 you paid for the basketball set. Heh
I know that set - and if cards look nothing less than pristine in a scan they are EX-MT at best. If I have any doubt, I either avoid the dealer or email him and mention that I plan on submitting the cards to PSA. I usually get a more honest grading back in reply.
That acronym usually cuts through the BS pretty quickly.
You know me too well.
Nate
I am a lil confused. In one sentence you state that you negotiated a return and took a 150.00 loss.
In the next paragraph you state that you have called the CC company and canceled the transaction.
Am I missing something here?
SD
and called my credit card company to stop payment to paypal.
negotiated the refund to $1,000, and vouched to E-bay
I have received the check for $1,000. So I am out $150 for the transaction, plus $10 shipping both ways on the set, $170 total.
Buyer makes $150 and gets his set back. Pays $30 paypal fees, and re-listing fees, and it is now up on E-bay with $1600 ask price.
The description has been edited and states a creased checklist.
Could have been uglier had I relisted the set, or kept the PSA graded cards and replaced them with raw and relisted set on my own with an accurate description.
I don't think anyone on this board would deal with this Seattle dealer. He sells mostly raw hockey to novice buyers.
Most of my other transactions have been great, especially with board members.
On a paypal dispute, what would paypal do? Make you send the set to a mutually agreed dealer to grade? Someone would declare the set has a specific dollar value, lets say $750. I might get a partial refund and have to keep a set that I don't like. I'd rather have most of my money back and move one. Take one on the chin and move on. Lesson learned.
Nate
I don't send everything out to get graded. Sometimes the cards are consigned or the grading fees on a 6-7 set aren't worth it.
So, there are good raw dealers too!!
I have to agree with some of the others. You were way too nice, basically you paid $170 for nothing! Seems like you should have stuck with your original plan and got the c/c company involved. But, if you are happy I guess that's what matters.
Save on ebay with Big Crumbs
Also, it might be good to consider all purchases from Ebay as gambling. You should only gamble with money you can afford to lose.