Rose Says He Bet on Reds 'Every Night' While Managing
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Rose Says He Bet on Reds 'Every Night' While Managing
Baseball's All-Time Hits Leader Awaits Hall of Fame Call That May Never Come
By TIM DAHLBERG, AP Sports
LAS VEGAS (Dec. 18) - Pete Rose was working his day job, which on this day meant he was inside a ritzy shopping mall at Caesars Palace, pen in hand.
A few feet away in this adult Disneyland, a Roman-themed laser light and water show erupted on the hour. The real spectacle, though, for the tourists and holiday shoppers wandering by was the beefy man in the red baseball cap.
Two girls wearing No. 14 jerseys were trying to drum up business, holding up signs offering autographs. The curious pull out cameras and cell phones to take pictures, but there are buyers, too.
Baseball's disgraced hit leader is making a living the only way he knows how. Fifteen days a month he's here, from 11:30 in the morning to 6 p.m., signing away.
Fifty bucks will get you an autographed photo, a handshake and maybe some small talk about your hometown. A picture with Pete is $100, and the autographed jersey with his list of records on the front will set you back $400.
"The jersey is the only thing I sign 'Charlie Hustle,"' Rose says. "It's a beautiful jersey. Everyone wants one. A couple of Saturdays ago we sold 52 in just one day."
If he feels belittled, he doesn't show it. Rose may be the main act in a carnival sideshow, but, hey, a guy's gotta eat.
"Some people get mad because they have to pay for an autograph, but there's not a store here that gives away anything for free," he says. "And you can always shake my hand and talk baseball. That doesn't cost anything."
On this day, though, he has even more to say. A writer has stopped by, and Rose sees it as an opportunity to again plead his case to be allowed back in baseball.
I could tell him not to waste his time because I'm already a convert. You see, I've gotten over the fact that he lied for years about betting on baseball, I'm willing to overlook the flawed personality traits, and I believe his on field accomplishments speak for themselves.
His book didn't bother me like it did so many in the game when it came out last year, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when he says he understands he did wrong.
His gambling problem so far has cost him 16 years away from baseball. The integrity of the sport surely needs to be protected, but murderers have served less time than this.
Besides I'm not so sure what it means to protect the integrity of a game that made a conscious decision to look the other way while its sluggers bulked up to ridiculous proportions and balls left the park in record numbers.
But I want to hear what Rose has to say, so he takes a lunch break and we talk over a bowl of chicken noodle soup.
Much of it you've heard before. Rose did throw in a tidbit, though, about the extent of his betting on the Cincinnati Reds while managing the team in the 1980s.
"I bet on my own team every night," he said.
Rose's argument - and it's a logical enough one - is that he always bet on his team to win and never tried to throw a game. The bookies in Las Vegas would have noticed if something was amiss, he says, and he's right.
"I don't know why I did it," he said. "I wish it had never happened. I'd probably still be managing the Reds now and we probably would have won a couple of World Series by now."
Because it did happen, Rose remains a pariah to baseball instead of being revered as its most prolific hitter. His eligibility for the Hall of Fame is expiring, and his chances of eventually being voted in by the veterans committee are remote.
Rose, though, wants more than just the Hall of Fame. He wants back in baseball, and he holds on to the unlikely notion that a team might actually hire him to be their manager.
"Hell, yeah," he says. "The ultimate goal for any athlete is the Hall of Fame but I'm more interested in being in the game."
Unfortunately for Rose, baseball isn't nearly as interested in having him back. Commissioner Bud Selig has shown no sign of rescinding his lifetime ban even though Rose finally admitted he did indeed bet on baseball.
Lunch is over and Rose goes back to his signing table, where a small crowd of people now awaits. Among them is Jason Inman of Atlanta, who spent about $400 on a signed jersey and baseball.
"He is what he is. He's an icon," Inman says. "I think it's a travesty he's not in the Hall of Fame."
Rose, meanwhile, sits in his chair, posing for pictures and signing others, as his barkers try to hustle business his way.
He's 64 now, pudgier than before, and beneath the baseball cap his hair is both thinning and graying. Behind him are huge posters from his glory days, showing him in a Reds uniform with a mop of hair on his head, grinning at something.
He's got to know it won't do much good, but he pleads his case one last time.
"I made a big mistake. I was wrong. But I can't change it," Rose says. "I just wish people would understand and give me a second chance. I won't need a third chance."
Rose turns his attention back to business at hand. It's time to leave.
"Merry Christmas," he says.
Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at tdahlberg@ap.org.
Baseball's All-Time Hits Leader Awaits Hall of Fame Call That May Never Come
By TIM DAHLBERG, AP Sports
LAS VEGAS (Dec. 18) - Pete Rose was working his day job, which on this day meant he was inside a ritzy shopping mall at Caesars Palace, pen in hand.
A few feet away in this adult Disneyland, a Roman-themed laser light and water show erupted on the hour. The real spectacle, though, for the tourists and holiday shoppers wandering by was the beefy man in the red baseball cap.
Two girls wearing No. 14 jerseys were trying to drum up business, holding up signs offering autographs. The curious pull out cameras and cell phones to take pictures, but there are buyers, too.
Baseball's disgraced hit leader is making a living the only way he knows how. Fifteen days a month he's here, from 11:30 in the morning to 6 p.m., signing away.
Fifty bucks will get you an autographed photo, a handshake and maybe some small talk about your hometown. A picture with Pete is $100, and the autographed jersey with his list of records on the front will set you back $400.
"The jersey is the only thing I sign 'Charlie Hustle,"' Rose says. "It's a beautiful jersey. Everyone wants one. A couple of Saturdays ago we sold 52 in just one day."
If he feels belittled, he doesn't show it. Rose may be the main act in a carnival sideshow, but, hey, a guy's gotta eat.
"Some people get mad because they have to pay for an autograph, but there's not a store here that gives away anything for free," he says. "And you can always shake my hand and talk baseball. That doesn't cost anything."
On this day, though, he has even more to say. A writer has stopped by, and Rose sees it as an opportunity to again plead his case to be allowed back in baseball.
I could tell him not to waste his time because I'm already a convert. You see, I've gotten over the fact that he lied for years about betting on baseball, I'm willing to overlook the flawed personality traits, and I believe his on field accomplishments speak for themselves.
His book didn't bother me like it did so many in the game when it came out last year, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt when he says he understands he did wrong.
His gambling problem so far has cost him 16 years away from baseball. The integrity of the sport surely needs to be protected, but murderers have served less time than this.
Besides I'm not so sure what it means to protect the integrity of a game that made a conscious decision to look the other way while its sluggers bulked up to ridiculous proportions and balls left the park in record numbers.
But I want to hear what Rose has to say, so he takes a lunch break and we talk over a bowl of chicken noodle soup.
Much of it you've heard before. Rose did throw in a tidbit, though, about the extent of his betting on the Cincinnati Reds while managing the team in the 1980s.
"I bet on my own team every night," he said.
Rose's argument - and it's a logical enough one - is that he always bet on his team to win and never tried to throw a game. The bookies in Las Vegas would have noticed if something was amiss, he says, and he's right.
"I don't know why I did it," he said. "I wish it had never happened. I'd probably still be managing the Reds now and we probably would have won a couple of World Series by now."
Because it did happen, Rose remains a pariah to baseball instead of being revered as its most prolific hitter. His eligibility for the Hall of Fame is expiring, and his chances of eventually being voted in by the veterans committee are remote.
Rose, though, wants more than just the Hall of Fame. He wants back in baseball, and he holds on to the unlikely notion that a team might actually hire him to be their manager.
"Hell, yeah," he says. "The ultimate goal for any athlete is the Hall of Fame but I'm more interested in being in the game."
Unfortunately for Rose, baseball isn't nearly as interested in having him back. Commissioner Bud Selig has shown no sign of rescinding his lifetime ban even though Rose finally admitted he did indeed bet on baseball.
Lunch is over and Rose goes back to his signing table, where a small crowd of people now awaits. Among them is Jason Inman of Atlanta, who spent about $400 on a signed jersey and baseball.
"He is what he is. He's an icon," Inman says. "I think it's a travesty he's not in the Hall of Fame."
Rose, meanwhile, sits in his chair, posing for pictures and signing others, as his barkers try to hustle business his way.
He's 64 now, pudgier than before, and beneath the baseball cap his hair is both thinning and graying. Behind him are huge posters from his glory days, showing him in a Reds uniform with a mop of hair on his head, grinning at something.
He's got to know it won't do much good, but he pleads his case one last time.
"I made a big mistake. I was wrong. But I can't change it," Rose says. "I just wish people would understand and give me a second chance. I won't need a third chance."
Rose turns his attention back to business at hand. It's time to leave.
"Merry Christmas," he says.
Tim Dahlberg is a national sports columnist for The Associated Press. Write to him at tdahlberg@ap.org.
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Comments
The author makes a great point 'murderers have served less time than this'.
it's a disgrace for baseball for Rose to NOT be in the hall.
<< <i>Shoeless Joe Jackson should get in before Rose does. >>
Shoeless admitted he took money from a gambler to throw games...vast difference if you ask me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Shoeless Joe Jackson should get in before Rose does. >>
Shoeless admitted he took money from a gambler to throw games...vast difference if you ask me. >>
I know its far fetched, but Rose betting that he will win is little mor than a contarct with built in incentives for winning. He never bet against his team, so a player signing a contract laden with performance clause is also betting on themselves.
I think that betting that you will win does far less to taint the game than perfomance enhancing drugs.
My Auctions
<< <i>
I think that betting that you will win does far less to taint the game than perfomance enhancing drugs. >>
To me, it reeks similarly of alcohol and tobacco being legal, but marijuana being illegal. Both are mind altering substances, but some are legal, some are not.
Betting! Oh my god! The sanctity and integrity of the game! bad bad bad!
Steroid abuse. Meh, not a big deal (though as you correctly pointed out, steroids have a direct affect on the game, whereas betting does not).
Pete Rose is still hustling
His gambling 'confession' is more hype than heartfelt.
Does anyone believe, for one minute, that Pete Rose is genuinely sorry for the damage he did to professional baseball by gambling on games while he was still active in it?
Does anyone, for one minute, believe that Rose is sincerely contrite for having lied about his gambling, over and over for 14 years, to dozens of sportswriters who asked him the gambling question to his face?
Does anyone, for one minute, believe that Rose's confession at this point, grudging even in print, isn't a hustle to sell the latest version of his autobiography for $24.95?
Does anyone, for one minute, believe that his belated admission of guilt isn't a last-ditch effort to sway Commissioner Bud Selig to lift baseball's lifetime ban on Rose and to persuade baseball writers that he should be voted into the Hall of Fame?
And finally, does anyone believe, for even a second, that Pete Rose is sorry for anything other than the fact that he got caught and has to go through this sham repentance to try to salvage his self-inflated reputation?
Once upon a time, say 14 years ago when he went to jail for five months for cheating on his taxes because of heavy gambling losses, Rose's admission that he gambled on baseball (even bet on his own team when he managed the Cincinnati Reds) might have been enough on its own to justify lifting the ban and making Rose eligible for induction into the Hall. We even said so.
But not today. Not after all the lying and his continued failure to appreciate the reason for baseball's cardinal rule. The rule is simple: Anyone – player, manger, coach, umpire – affiliated with Major League Baseball who gambles on baseball games shall be banned for life. That rule is posted in every clubhouse in the major leagues. Yet Rose still seems oblivious to it.
He points instead to players who have been suspended from baseball for abusing alcohol or other drugs, yet allowed to regroup and return, and wonders why he, as a compulsive gambler, is not afforded the same consideration.
A couple of reasons. One is that Rose, a racetrack regular, hasn't stopped gambling or shown any inclination to do so. The other is that the risk to baseball is much greater. Players with personal problems, including those other than substance abuse, may cause temporary damage, but do not threaten the integrity of the game. Baseball insiders who bet on games do. If fans begin to wonder if a game is fixed, they'll stop paying 50 bucks to buy a ticket. Game over.
Rose says he never bet against the Reds when he managed them. Of course, he denied betting on baseball at all for 14 years, so he has zero credibility. But even if he's telling the truth, a manager trying hard to win today to cover a $25,000 bet (Rose was no piker) could jeopardize his team's chances of winning tomorrow. Leave a pitcher in too long. Play a star who is injured.
Selig has said Rose needs to admit his gambling before any appeal to lift the lifetime ban will be considered. Rose has now done that, sort of. But we don't think he's come close to meeting the spirit of what Selig had in mind.
The Hall of Fame, also a history museum of baseball, can't ignore the fact that Rose had more hits than any other player. Nor can it ignore his gambling and lying about it, to fans as well as the media. It can figure out a way to present both facts without putting up a plaque to a man who is the personification of the word hustle, in all its meanings.
I strongly believe that he belongs in the hall of fame.
Hr leader...in the hall, batting avg. leader...in the hall, ect.. ect.. Hits leader??? not in hall... ridiculas
<< <i>
<< <i>Shoeless Joe Jackson should get in before Rose does. >>
Shoeless admitted he took money from a gambler to throw games...vast difference if you ask me. >>
OK, then let Jim Rice in...
Actually, Barry Bonds and Palmerio may be the first two 500+ hr players who will not get in on the first ballot, if they ever get in.
<< <i>Bonds will get in on the first ballot. Palmeiro will get in on the second or third ballot. >>
So, you think after five years, the whole steroids issue will just fade to the background in the minds of the voters?
<< <i>Actually, Barry Bonds and Palmerio may be the first two 500+ hr players who will not get in on the first ballot, if they ever get in. >>
Talk to Harmon Killebrew. He wasn't voted in until his 4th ballot.
Harmon Killebrew
Year Election Votes Pct
1981 BBWAA 239 59.60
1982 BBWAA 246 59.28
1983 BBWAA 269 71.93
1984 BBWAA 335 83.13
Anyone busted for a DUI? They're out too...a MLB player busted for something as bad as that sets a horrible example for our kids.
Domestic abuse? They're gone...bad example and bad for the integrity of the game.
Anyone busted for illegal substance abuse like cocaine or marijuana? Kick em out, bad for the integrity of the game.
See...you could go down a whole list of things that affect the integrity of the game. It's mind-numbing that people want to think that baseball is filled with a bunch of saints. I don't see how you can lump in what he did as a player with what he did while managing.
Pete Rose should be in the hall AND barred from baseball for life....why are they mutually exclusive?
Again...comparisons don't matter. Rose gambled on the games...Rose got banned...it's really quite that simple. Rose doesn't seem to get this and neither do you.
And as I've stated before...I like Pete Rose, always have and probably always will, but he fvcked around with the integrity of the game and deserved to get banned...Yes...for life as the rules stated. And I'm not an unforgiving person...if he would quit gambling and become an anti-gambling advocate then he might, maybe, very slim chance of getting into the Hall of Fame...other than doing that and exactly that...he's got no chance of ever getting in. Yes...that's a shame but it's his own dam fault!
Nope. I believe the voting would be exactly as I stated even if the voting were to take place today - just my opinion. We'll just have to wait and see what happens. It should be interesting.
So ban Rose for life from baseball...I get that, I understand that, I see that he shouldn't be allowed to coach, manage, or in any way associate with baseball as his turn as manager is what undid him.
But to deny him from the hall for his on the field accomplishment is outrageous.
Why does he need to quit gambling to get in? He's not in baseball anymore, so why should he have to gamble to pay some sort of penance? I mean is Raffy going to have to go around and do 'don't do steroids!' speeches? He cheated, and cheating with your body affects games a lot more than betting. Bonds will waltz into the hall on the first ballot, while everyone in America (voters included) know without a doubt (and by his own testimony in the BALCO case) that he cheated his way to untold numbers of home runs and MVP trophies.
Yes I know he broke the rules...but to say he shook the integrity of the game is a bit overdramatic.
And does anyone think for a moment there are no players and/or managers who are currently betting on games? What about football players in fantasy football leagues?
This ban just reeks of self righteousness, and the commish who instituted the ban wanted to have something to hang his hat on to go down in history on.
Perhaps. And if they get caught, then they'll be banned for life as well.
Frankly, part of the problem here might be that yes, Rose wants to get in the Hall, but seems to me that more importantly to him he wants to get back into baseball as a manager. The realistic odds of Rose ever again managing a MLB team are basically zero. Rose therefore has no real incentive to quit his "beloved" gambling, hence there's a stalemate which probably won't ever get resolved.
You make some valid points but the key here is that the problem is with Pete Rose, not with MLB. Rose I believe could have gotten back into baeball many years ago by doing the right thing. Again...the big problem is he just plain loves gambling too much to give that up just to get into the Hall, considering no matter what he does he won't ever manage again. Despite Rose's public personna and his "crocodile tears" on talk shows, deep down I don't think he really gives a crap one way or the other what MLB does to him. Right now he's a compulsive gambler who doesn't have any desire to quit gambling - maybe that might change in the future but I doubt it.
Gambling (and drugs and alcohol) all are addictive things...but gambling somehow in the baseball world has this stigma attached to it that it's somehow affects the integrity of the game.
Yes he broke the rules, but I would suggest very few would object to Rose being barred from ever managing or coaching, but allowing him (deserved) entry into the hall.
somehow? a world series was thrown in 1919
if the paying public have no idea if a game is legit then why bother rooting for a team?
SD
How much money would it take to get a player to throw a game, series, etc? And wouldn't someone with that much money find better ways to make money?
That is exactly right!
If this Black Sox event had happened in 1999 instead of 1919, those now in favor of "forgiving" Rose I doubt would still be saying that. I say that the Black Sox event that happened in 1919 is just as relevant today as it was back in 1919 - the integrity of the game cannot be compromised by gambling.
Hypotheticals regarding the past usually bore me and I don't normally discuss them. It is much more interesting to interpret the past and try to predict the future, rather than regurgitating the past involving a hypothetical situation and then what could have happened. But in the case of Pete Rose, there is no doubt in my mind if Rose hadn't been caught and the Reds would have gotten into the World Series, that a "Black Sox" type scandal involving Rose could very well have happened again.
He has always been for Pete and always will be. To compare him to steroid users is missing the point. If a steroid user is caught and agrees to a life-time ban, then that's what he gets. I think that baseball can reconsider the ban after he is gone.
Whether or not Rose ever gets in is irrelevant. Those who saw him play & loved him for it will continue to do so. He was a great player, and his legend and exploits on the field will be handed down to the next generation no matter if he is in or not. I am far more afraid that when I try to tell my child about him and other greats of the game someday that he or she will be more interested in the life and legacy of some jackass poker player they see on ESPN every night.
-- Yogi Berra
Bosox1976
SOMEHOW!?!?!?!?!?!? SOMEHOW!?!?!?!? Axtell, I think you're either completely naive to the world of sports betting and its wide-reaching effects or are being purposefully obtuse on this. If you can't get this single point that a player or manager betting on baseball can completely DESTROY the integrity of the game, then I'm afraid that you'll never really get it. Its not some holier-than-thou ideal or some high-and-mighty unrealistic standard. Its categorically true.
If you think the uproar surrounding steroids was bad when all the big names were thrown around, imagine how fast the sports world and baseball specifically would be brought to its collective knees if this list of players and managers were found to be betting on or against their teams or other teams in baseball last season:
Joe Torre
Alex Rodriguez
Chipper Jones
Brad Lidge
Mike Piazza
Bobby Cox
Frank Robinson
Sidney Ponson
What would you think every time you watched a baseball game from then on?
That is an excellent analogy that I hadn't heard before - Well done!