Its the end of the year..Time to reflect
IJustLoveCards
Posts: 1,345
So, I was talking to a friend the other night and we got to talking about cards and he asked me about grading, I told him about grading, PSA, the registry, and I made a simple statement that got me thinking are we being played or are we the players?
Here is what I mean. When the set registry came out we were on ebay, on dealers websites, going to shows, and buying every card we could find in the grade we needed to complete our set on the registry. It was like a feeding frenzy, like sharks in water eating a meal smelling blood.
Think about it, in the sets we were putting together we would often bid against the same buyers, gosh we even felt like we knew them as we saw their ebay handle each time, we knew they were coming and tried to figure what we needed to bid to win the card. The prices were climbing, there was no end in sight, it was unreal. We would check back here and post the crazy prices in certian sets, what commons went for and often argued that the cards were worth it, just look at the pop, look how hard that common is. Dealers saw this, and jumped in, they couldnt get the cards to PSA fast enough and then on ebay to capture the crazy prices that we as registry set builders were willing to pay.
We all were guilty of this in one way or another.
Then we justify our buying these cards at these prices by saying, there is no way they are going to find 3 more 9's in that 50's set for that particular card because its just not out there. Well, it is, I watched a Joe Jay psa 9 55 card on lelands being touted as a 1 of 2 with none higher...walla, 3 more 9's were just graded in the last 2 weeks ( I checked the pop report and in fact it was a 1 of 2 in late novemeber) now its a 1 of 5 just 3 weeks later.
The famous 1960 Curt Simmons, 1000.00 in an 8, well guess what, the cards pop has grown and now the card no longer has a pop of 4 in fact it has more than doubled.
Think about it, would you pay 1000.00 for a common player if it wasnt for the fact that you needed that card to finish your set in an all 8 set on the registry? If the card was going in a box in your house and there was no such thing as the registry and you just wanted the satisfaction of a graded simmons card would it be worth 1000.00?
So is the registry just the greatest marketing tool that we as collectors have ever fallen for, I think so, personally, we keep chasing when in fact, we can slow down and watch the prices come down and yes even in the 50's as more and more cards get graded.
The number of cards being graded in any year is way outpacing the number of additional new set builders, so supply is catching and passing demand.
The registry has put PSA in a position to have collectors like ourselves do anything we can to protect them, why, its simple, if PSA were to be passed by some other grading company what would that do to our collections and the thousands of dollars we have invested?
So in essence, we will protect them while we really are protecting ourselves, in my estimation we were caught up in it, hook, line and sinker.
Here is what I mean. When the set registry came out we were on ebay, on dealers websites, going to shows, and buying every card we could find in the grade we needed to complete our set on the registry. It was like a feeding frenzy, like sharks in water eating a meal smelling blood.
Think about it, in the sets we were putting together we would often bid against the same buyers, gosh we even felt like we knew them as we saw their ebay handle each time, we knew they were coming and tried to figure what we needed to bid to win the card. The prices were climbing, there was no end in sight, it was unreal. We would check back here and post the crazy prices in certian sets, what commons went for and often argued that the cards were worth it, just look at the pop, look how hard that common is. Dealers saw this, and jumped in, they couldnt get the cards to PSA fast enough and then on ebay to capture the crazy prices that we as registry set builders were willing to pay.
We all were guilty of this in one way or another.
Then we justify our buying these cards at these prices by saying, there is no way they are going to find 3 more 9's in that 50's set for that particular card because its just not out there. Well, it is, I watched a Joe Jay psa 9 55 card on lelands being touted as a 1 of 2 with none higher...walla, 3 more 9's were just graded in the last 2 weeks ( I checked the pop report and in fact it was a 1 of 2 in late novemeber) now its a 1 of 5 just 3 weeks later.
The famous 1960 Curt Simmons, 1000.00 in an 8, well guess what, the cards pop has grown and now the card no longer has a pop of 4 in fact it has more than doubled.
Think about it, would you pay 1000.00 for a common player if it wasnt for the fact that you needed that card to finish your set in an all 8 set on the registry? If the card was going in a box in your house and there was no such thing as the registry and you just wanted the satisfaction of a graded simmons card would it be worth 1000.00?
So is the registry just the greatest marketing tool that we as collectors have ever fallen for, I think so, personally, we keep chasing when in fact, we can slow down and watch the prices come down and yes even in the 50's as more and more cards get graded.
The number of cards being graded in any year is way outpacing the number of additional new set builders, so supply is catching and passing demand.
The registry has put PSA in a position to have collectors like ourselves do anything we can to protect them, why, its simple, if PSA were to be passed by some other grading company what would that do to our collections and the thousands of dollars we have invested?
So in essence, we will protect them while we really are protecting ourselves, in my estimation we were caught up in it, hook, line and sinker.
The Link below will take you to the PSA Boards 1952 Set Build, I also have made 5 slideshows each slideshow is 100 cards long, card numbers 1-99,100-199,200-299,300-399, and 400-407
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
0
Comments
Yes - some cards have had populations rise. Some values have plummeted as a result. But the hobby is very strong overall - as prices are generally up across the board, especially in the pre-war arena.
You don't have cards graded Fair to Good realize $50,000+ on Ebay auctions because of the Registry. True supply and demand dictates - and the Registry has certainly helped push that along in certain sets and arenas - but you don't have to look far to see many cards going for records prices - whether raw or not graded by PSA.
~marc
You bring up an age old question of how much quality is out there that is not PSA graded. I am talking about raw and potential crossover. I started intently a little over a year ago collecting the 1966 set in PSA 9 or better. I am a numbers geek so I keep track of what is getting graded. As of the end of 2004 there were a total of 2958 cards from 1966 that were 9's. It appears that nothing got updated from PSA this week so the last population report from December 5 showed 3984 PSA 9's from that year. A increase of over 33% with three weeks to go.
I consider that a lot. I have made a dent in a year and am about 50% of the way.
Let me pass on my experience and it touches many of the points you make
During the year I have seen a card that was a pop 3 in the beginning now become a pop 13. This card that went for over $300 went for $36 at the end. This set is heavily competitive from the top two in the registry and prices of low pops reflect that on E-Bay. #1 is very paranoid of #2 and does whatever he can to stop him or make him pay. He routinely puts in snipes of near $300 on cards he has to try to "stick it to"
# 2 or anyone else who dare try to dethrone him. He got hung with so many cards that he started a second registry and that is in the top 10. To make matters more interesting, #3 dumped his whole set off in the MastroNet auction last week in individuals and some big chunks including over 30 PSA 10's. By my calculations the whole thing went for a total of nearly $84,000 before the juice. Several people have their registry set so you cannot see what they own to prevent others from trying to figure out their needs.
Patience is definitely the key. If we all knew when the raw/crossovers would end we could make better decisions. I have seen some bottom feeders that pick up cards for great prices because they were not the first on their block to have them, but at the end of the day there card is the same as the person who paid $600 for it when it was a 1/1 common.
The SMR could also do a better job at monitoring their prices and the weighted values of those cards. Bill Mazeroski from that year has a pop in PSA 9 of 39. That is the highest in the set. His card has an SMR of $200. No way it will ever fetch that.
I guess buyer beware and live within your budgeted plan is the best advice. Don't worry what anyone else has. Fortunately for me since I am so far away from completing the set that if I miss a card there are plenty more I need and it does seem that the card I missed is back up for sale before you know it.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Post of the millenium goes to softparade!
Bravo!
61 Topps (100%) 7.96
62 Parkhurst (100%) 8.70
63 Topps (100%) 7.96
63 York WB's (50%) 8.52
68 Topps (39%) 8.54
69 Topps (3%) 9.00
69 OPC (83%) 8.21
71 Topps (100%) 9.21 #1 A.T.F.
72 Topps (100%) 9.39
73 Topps (13%) 9.35
74 OPC WHA (95%) 8.57
75 Topps (50%) 9.23
77 OPC WHA (86%) 8.62 #1 A.T.F.
88 Topps (5%) 10.00
SD
However, I also want to spend as little as I can for the cards I want. If it means paying $500 for a card today, or waiting a week and getting it for $400, I will wait a week. If it means paying $1,000 for a card today, but waiting and having a high chance that I'll find the card in the same condition for $600 within 6 months, then I can wait.
Trying to determine the future of card prices to some extent doesn't mean trying to make a profit. It means trying to be fiscally sound with one's budget and trying to get as many cards as one can get for his money's worth.
I think the original poster had some interesting things to say. Patience is useful. Not always though. Some cards actually stay low pop and just become more expensive in the future. If one can determine to some degree of certainty which cards will become more available (and thus cheaper in the future), and which cards won't, then one can plan and actually build a stronger collection with the same budget over the long haul.
<< <i>The registry has put PSA in a position to have collectors like ourselves do anything we can to protect them, why, its simple, if PSA were to be passed by some other grading company what would that do to our collections and the thousands of dollars we have invested? >>
IJustLove
There's no simple answer but the key word I picked up on in your discussion has to do with "invested."
IMO, this winds up right back at the same place we always begin - the focus of one's direction.
Like Steve and Dan - and myself - there are a lot of people here who collect for the shear pleasure and if God came down tomorrow and declared all collections worthless in monetary value, we still have our collections and the fun it has afforded us.
mike
I collect cards of players and/or teams that I like. If I justify the price that is being charged for a card, I buy it if I can. If I think that the price is out of line, I pass. Collecting should be fun and it should be simple.
<< <i>Theczar brought up a point that I know has been addressed before in the forum but has seemed to have fallen on deaf ears with PSA. The point that I refer to is that the SMR could be better. Lets face it, there isn't much difference (for the most part) between the values placed on the cards listed in the March 2004 issue versus those listed in the March 2005 one. However, the actual prices being charged in shops or at shows are often quite different than what the value of a card is shown in the SMR. The SMR is pretty much useless.
I collect cards of players and/or teams that I like. If I justify the price that is being charged for a card, I buy it if I can. If I think that the price is out of line, I pass. Collecting should be fun and it should be simple. >>
Thrill
That's why I focused on a key word - one which is at the core of all discussions in this area:
Collecting - fun vs. investment.
mike
<< <i>It's not that simple, obviously.
Yes - some cards have had populations rise. Some values have plummeted as a result. But the hobby is very strong overall - as prices are generally up across the board, especially in the pre-war arena.
You don't have cards graded Fair to Good realize $50,000+ on Ebay auctions because of the Registry. True supply and demand dictates - and the Registry has certainly helped push that along in certain sets and arenas - but you don't have to look far to see many cards going for records prices - whether raw or not graded by PSA.
~marc >>
These are good points, but it doesn't address what I think is the central point broached by the initial poster; i.e., will the value of high grade vintage cards (post war) in PSA, GAI and SGC continue to trend downward. A few record prices doesn't offset the fact that 90% of the graded cards out there which were printed after 1945 have seen a decline in value over the pas 4 years.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
Please forgive the grammatical faux pas in this last sentence. I realize it ends in a preposition, but I have to go bowling now and don't have the time/energy to correct it.
At the end of the day we are lucky that we have a hobby that returns some of the money and in some cases creates a profit.
Groucho Marx
1) Collected cards as a child starting in the 50's, 60's or 70's.
2) Quit collecting in our teens or at least by the time we hit college.
3) Abused our cards as a child, flipping, rubber bands and some art work once in a while.
4) Never threw our cards away, nor did we let a family throw them away.
5) Went through the boom of the late 80's and early 90's where the formula to making money was to buy a box of cards, put it in a closet for two years and presto you had a made a profit. Of course why just buy a box and make a few bucks when you could buy cases and make a fortune. Anyone remember "Big Bob's Cards". Pumping out cases by the truck load. This trend was picked again in the late 1990's called internet stocks.
6) Mature a little in life, get a decent income, have some discretionary income and start getting back into the market collecting what we enjoyed in our youth. (I don't see anyone on hear bragging about their 2003 Bowman Chrome Registry). We collect what we can afford, some people PSA 5 others Gem Mint. Just like some people drive a Lexus and others Neons
7 Since most of the bricks and mortar cards stores have gone the way of the dinosaur, there is no place to go to talk cards with other collectors we reach out on this board which is very civil compared to most boards full of strangers.
8)We collect what we can afford, some people PSA 5 others Gem Mint. Just like some people drive a Lexus and others Neons, but on this board we are all collectors and no one need be ashamed of their purchase. They just want someone to share their news.
How many of us have knowledgeable friends/co-workers/family members that you can actually discuss cards with seriously. I remember bringing a price guide to work and have some guy read and think he was Bill Gates. People don't understand that an ungraded 1991 Mark McGwire or a 1972 Ferguson Jenkins that is beat to hell is not worth a lot.
Just my thoughts. I am glad to have stumbled onto this board.
I hope you all have a blessed and Merry Christmas.
<< <i>I see a lot of people here have mentioned that they collect for fun and not profit. Far be it from me to play the role of the 'Thread Police', since I've hijacked more than my fair share of threads, but keep in mind that the original post wasn't concerned with why anyone collects, but rather whether or not the grading companies created an illusion of scarcity which many (most) of us fell for.
Please forgive the grammatical faux pas in this last sentence. I realize it ends in a preposition, but I have to go bowling now and don't have the time/energy to correct it.
That was the point I was making, We (including myself, and certainly not all) fell for the "gotta get it right now becuse there isn't anymore to be gotten" chase.
Stone, I never intended to have investment characterized as the focal point of the post.
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
In the end, the prices for low popluation commons comes down to supply and demand, just as the prices for superstar cards are driven by supply and demand.
<< <i>I see a lot of people here have mentioned that they collect for fun and not profit. Far be it from me to play the role of the 'Thread Police', since I've hijacked more than my fair share of threads, but keep in mind that the original post wasn't concerned with why anyone collects, but rather whether or not the grading companies created an illusion of scarcity which many (most) of us fell for.
>>
Also the original post most definately was concerned with re-sale and value of WHATEVER GRADED cards. The "scarcity" word has always made me laugh. Don't blame any grading company for that ..... that ILLUSION has been around ALOT longer than any grading company.
It is really so simple for me .... I buy what I want to collect because I love the cards/issue. Value, scarcity, illusions, deception, etc I never give a thought to because I don't care! To me, those who sweat that stuff probably should not be blowing money on this hobby
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>The "scarcity" word has always made me laugh. Don't blame any grading company for that ..... that ILLUSION has been around ALOT longer than any grading company. >>
I wouldn't call it an illusion per se, as I mentioned before, too many 1960 cards have been graded for the low population of cards like Simmons to be just a statistical anomaly. For some reason, whether it's placement on the sheet or the condition of the printing plates or some kid who really hated Curt Simmons and decided to damage all his cards, this card IS difficult to find in PSA 8 condition and this certainly ISN'T an illusion. The high price this card commands is a reflection of that.
A card is worth what someone is willing to pay for it; and it is more likely that a low population common will have someone willing to pay a higher price for it; simple as that.
SD
This probably means that I have to come to terms with the fact that I am, at least partially, an investor but I wouldn't spend money on this stuff if I was not also a collector.
[/ashamed modern collector]
<< <i>
<< <i>I see a lot of people here have mentioned that they collect for fun and not profit. Far be it from me to play the role of the 'Thread Police', since I've hijacked more than my fair share of threads, but keep in mind that the original post wasn't concerned with why anyone collects, but rather whether or not the grading companies created an illusion of scarcity which many (most) of us fell for.
>>
Also the original post most definately was concerned with re-sale and value of WHATEVER GRADED cards. The "scarcity" word has always made me laugh. Don't blame any grading company for that ..... that ILLUSION has been around ALOT longer than any grading company.
It is really so simple for me .... I buy what I want to collect because I love the cards/issue. Value, scarcity, illusions, deception, etc I never give a thought to because I don't care! To me, those who sweat that stuff probably should not be blowing money on this hobby
That's easy for you to say since you've chosen to collect a set which has never been all that expensive. A guy who was paying $40 a pop for PSA 8 '65 commons may see this whole thing a little differently, and I think you should work to respect that; just as everyone here (to the best of my knowledge) has shown you nothing but respect and encouragement in your collecting pursuits.
<< <i>So, I was talking to a friend the other night and we got to talking about cards and he asked me about grading, I told him about grading, PSA, the registry, and I made a simple statement that got me thinking are we being played or are we the players?
Here is what I mean. When the set registry came out we were on ebay, on dealers websites, going to shows, and buying every card we could find in the grade we needed to complete our set on the registry. It was like a feeding frenzy, like sharks in water eating a meal smelling blood.
Think about it, in the sets we were putting together we would often bid against the same buyers, gosh we even felt like we knew them as we saw their ebay handle each time, we knew they were coming and tried to figure what we needed to bid to win the card. The prices were climbing, there was no end in sight, it was unreal. We would check back here and post the crazy prices in certian sets, what commons went for and often argued that the cards were worth it, just look at the pop, look how hard that common is. Dealers saw this, and jumped in, they couldnt get the cards to PSA fast enough and then on ebay to capture the crazy prices that we as registry set builders were willing to pay.
We all were guilty of this in one way or another.
Then we justify our buying these cards at these prices by saying, there is no way they are going to find 3 more 9's in that 50's set for that particular card because its just not out there. Well, it is, I watched a Joe Jay psa 9 55 card on lelands being touted as a 1 of 2 with none higher...walla, 3 more 9's were just graded in the last 2 weeks ( I checked the pop report and in fact it was a 1 of 2 in late novemeber) now its a 1 of 5 just 3 weeks later.
The famous 1960 Curt Simmons, 1000.00 in an 8, well guess what, the cards pop has grown and now the card no longer has a pop of 4 in fact it has more than doubled.
Think about it, would you pay 1000.00 for a common player if it wasnt for the fact that you needed that card to finish your set in an all 8 set on the registry? If the card was going in a box in your house and there was no such thing as the registry and you just wanted the satisfaction of a graded simmons card would it be worth 1000.00?
So is the registry just the greatest marketing tool that we as collectors have ever fallen for, I think so, personally, we keep chasing when in fact, we can slow down and watch the prices come down and yes even in the 50's as more and more cards get graded.
The number of cards being graded in any year is way outpacing the number of additional new set builders, so supply is catching and passing demand.
The registry has put PSA in a position to have collectors like ourselves do anything we can to protect them, why, its simple, if PSA were to be passed by some other grading company what would that do to our collections and the thousands of dollars we have invested?
So in essence, we will protect them while we really are protecting ourselves, in my estimation we were caught up in it, hook, line and sinker. >>
I think the thing to remember is that there are still a TON of cards left to be graded, and the current prices reflect the supply/demand relationship as it currently stands. As more cards keept getting graded everything will continue to fall in price unless for new blood joins the hobby; which doesn't seem all that likely, though I guess stranger things have happened.
As the old stock broker phrase goes, 'never try to catch a falling knife'. Until the bottom has dropped out I think it's probably best to just buy cards that CAN'T drop any further in value; i.e., cards that already sell for little if anything above what they would fetch raw. This includes most pre-1975 PSA 7's, and virtually anything after that. Consider Dan and Kirk's sets. They'll never make a profit on them, but they certainly won't lose either. you can buy a 1984 George Brett, for instance, for around $2 raw, or you can pay $5 for a PSA 9. The PSA 9 really can't drop any further. It's never going up, but it's also done going down. The cards that these two guys own ( Dan and Kirk in this instance) are going to stay right where they're at for a long, long time. Which makes them probably two of the better sets to try and put together right now, since there's just no telling how much more saturated the market for pre 75 PSA 8's is going to get.
But I'm kind of reading between the lines and the ROI seems to be permeating the rhetoric about whether the registry concept has duped some people.
My best friend spends a fortune on his hobby - golf - there's nothing to sell at the end of a decade of money spent in the pursuit of the perfect swing and that elusive hole in one.
I totally sympathize with those who feel that their money was not well spent. And in no way was my intention to minimize that feeling.
Hope my words didn't piss anyone off.
Merry Christmas
mike
Yeah me too.
That is why I collect for fun.
Steve
<< <i>Maybe I'm off base...
But I'm kind of reading between the lines and the ROI seems to be permeating the rhetoric about whether the registry concept has duped some people.
My best friend spends a fortune on his hobby - golf - there's nothing to sell at the end of a decade of money spent in the pursuit of the perfect swing and that elusive hole in one.
I totally sympathize with those who feel that their money was not well spent. And in no way was my intention to minimize that feeling.
Hope my words didn't piss anyone off.
Merry Christmas
mike >>
Speaking for myself I would never say that the registry duped anyone. It only made sense that the pops would rise, and that without an influx of new collectors the prices would drop. Also, from what I gathered in IJLC's initial post he wasn't really trolling for sympathy; just making some observations about the registry in general, and musing over the fact that cards which he (and I, and I'm sure many others) thought would hold their value have been in slow decline for about the last three years; and that the bottom really isn't in sight.
I think the real constructive question to ask is 'What's Next?' If you're lucky enough to be passionate about a late '70's or early '80's set this doesn't really effect you, for the reasons I mentioned in the earlier post. But what if you have a thing for '63's? Or '71's? Sure, you can say 'collect for the hell of it', but the fact of the matter is this; many people, while the do collect for the joy of collecting, would rather not put their money into something that's going to depreciate 8%-10% a year for the foreseeable future. This isn't being cold, or cynical, and it certainly isn't a viewpoint that degrades the hobby in any way. It's simply an observation of fact that a lot of people who are now into vintage got there because they were sick and tired of losing their shirts collecting modern, and they're frustrated by the fact that the PSA registry brought an instability to what had previously been a fairly stable market.
Do I enjoy collecting cards? Sure I do. I have a cache of cards that I like, and while I can't see myself ever going after a complete graded set (or at least not a baseball set) I do have graded cards in my collection. But above all that I just like to collect things; whether it be sports cards or something else. And I'm more inclined to put my money into things that won't decrease in value, or which will at least hold their value, because all other factors are equal.
Our hobby involves collecting something and the enjoyment of the hunt. If one is looking for retention in value - collect stocks and bonds IMO.
If I have to constantly be worried by value, I just think it feels too much like work.
mike
<< <i>Our hobby involves collecting something and the enjoyment of the hunt. If one is looking for retention in value - collect stocks and bonds IMO.
If I have to constantly be worried by value, I just think it feels too much like work.
mike >>
right on! I have always felt this way, and it has nothing to do with what I am collecting at the moment !
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
If you want to take this to a investing , ROI , discusion then thats on you, I never meant it in that way. Although its clear that cards were artifically inflated that wasnt the premise of my discussion.
The facts are as they are, Ebay and the Set Registry played a significant role in the value placed on cards and whatever it was that we collect (71's, 65's, 52's) the common player, not the star, had huge gains in value becuse of the low pop mentality that was placed on those common players.
Do I see some of the cards that I paid higher values for declining? sure, did I anticipate that? yes, am I upset? no. I love my collection, I enjoy them every day, But to sit by and not acknowledge that the registry had some influence in our hobby, and the perception of "The low pop card" is just not right. Ebay brought us all together, and for a short period of time the frenzy that the registry created put a new excitement into our hobby.
If it comes down to ROI or Investment as I see many people point out, then my post wasnt really written well and I apologize for that. I really was hoping to spurn a discussion on how the registry, internet, and ebay all came together to create this frenzy in our hobby. How those factors drove prices up, how we saw people we only knew thru their ebay handles competing with each of us for a particular card, or set.
Weather you or I bought the card at the wrong price or not, or got a good deal, or if cards are an investment, thats a discussion you can have, and maybe it ties into this, but it wasnt my intention with this post.
20 years ago before ebay, (for those not old enough to remember) we got our cards from the brick and mortar dealer, we opened the beckett and the price was set. To say that the hobby hasnt changed greatly from that time to where we are now is just not right, and to say that the registry didnt have a huge influence in that is also not correct.
Thomas Jefferson once wrote:
To not acknowldge the effects of change
is the same as asking a man to wear the same coat which once fit him as a boy.
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
<< <i>Our hobby involves collecting something and the enjoyment of the hunt. If one is looking for retention in value - collect stocks and bonds IMO.
If I have to constantly be worried by value, I just think it feels too much like work.
mike >>
I just fail to see why somebody who doesn't want to put their money in a collectible that's going to decline in value should be told to 'take a hike'. If you don't want to worry about value that's fine; but that should in no way mean that other hobby enthusiasts either cannot should should not have these concerns.
Also, I recognize that I'm speaking for myself here and not IJLC.
Boo this is the second time that you have made such a claim. Where in this thread did you see this?
I am at a loss.
but that should in no way mean that other hobby enthusiasts either cannot should should not have these concerns.
Speaking for myself and I am sure everyone else that has made the "I just collect for fun" statement "we" or at least I have no problem if you guys want to worry about the supposed declining value of your collections.
Steve
..................and if you were lucky you got a ex/mnt (at best card) for the mint (hi neckett price)
The bottom line here is that the 3 forces you talk about have changed the hobby. Some for the better, some for the worse and some for in between. I also have made quite a few trading partners with those same ebay handles that had bid aagainst me too.
Steve
<< <i>
I just fail to see why somebody who doesn't want to put their money in a collectible that's going to decline in value should be told to 'take a hike'. >>
I don't understand that one either. I certainly would never imply that one should "take a hike" man geeeez, I just think alot more guys would be happier if they didn't stress over the cards they buy and re-sale. Sure its great if you can make money in the end! I would even say that I hope that is the case with my collection. BUT, I really don't care either way. The money I spend on cards is money that I can blow, like sitting in a bar, going out to dinner, going to the movies, etc. I'm not saying my thoughts are THE RIGHT WAY to go about things, but it is certainly alot less stressful
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The motive to have a set that will go thru the roof and be flipped for that vacation house in Key West motivated people to pay obscene amounts of money for cards that were due to be diluted by future submissions of the same kind of card.
Pride of being first on the registry plays a large part also, but the 90s brought a mess of collectors looking for a payday - I know that as well as others. This is not a bad thing - no one has to take a hike - I think the responses here are valid ones but money trumps all the other cards in the deck.
mike
Boo with all due respect
some of the things you have said baffle me.
1..........so i am clear......I'll use 1965 topps, a psa 8 card (whatever) can and do bring different prices. I do not need to tell you that all 8's are NOT created equal.
2..........the pop if anything is always lower then it's stated amount (on some cards) due to re submissions.
3............many cards/issues are locked up in collections, so new submissions are good
4............new blood , many people rejoin the hobby all the time PLUS their are people like me that after a set is completed go after another......................
5............the benifits of the registry go beyond the prices of common cards. No need to explain what they are but there are a few other reasons then those touted here.
7 .............. What people paid 5 years ago and what people pay today for the same issue is like comparing apples and oranges.
8............... the astute collector is diversified within his collection so that way if one series he/she worked on goes down another quite possibly has gone up
9.............. The bottom line is to collect what you enjoy and always consider this a hobby first and foremost. I have never lost out when it is taken in that context.
10............... Enjoy the cards.
Steve