Yikes...got some bad grades today
GeoffEighinger
Posts: 431 ✭✭
This was basically to add cards for my Dale Murphy Master Set and try for PSA 10s for my 1988 Topps Immaculate Collection.
PSA Order Status for Submission # 584267
LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 12431886 1975 TOPPS 416 JOE THEISMANN N/A 7
2 12431887 1988 TOPPS 148 TOMMY KRAMER N/A 9
3 12431888 1988 TOPPS 91 BRIAN BRENNAN N/A 9
4 12431889 1988 TOPPS 99 HANFORD DIXON N/A 9
5 12431890 1977 TOPPS 476 ROOKIE CATCHERS N/A 5
6 12431891 1979 TOPPS 39 DALE MURPHY N/A 6
7 12431892 1980 TOPPS 274 DALE MURPHY N/A 4
8 12431893 1981 FLEER 243 DALE MURPHY N/A 8
9 12431894 1983 TOPPS 760 DALE MURPHY N/A 7
10 12431895 1986 FLEER 31 DALE MURPHY LIMITED EDITION 8
11 12431896 1987 TOPPS 490 DALE MURPHY N/A 9
12 12431897 2004 ULTRA 220 DELMON YOUNG N/A 9
Date Received: 12/05/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 12/14/2005
Date Shipped: No Date Specified
PSA Order Status for Submission # 584267
LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 12431886 1975 TOPPS 416 JOE THEISMANN N/A 7
2 12431887 1988 TOPPS 148 TOMMY KRAMER N/A 9
3 12431888 1988 TOPPS 91 BRIAN BRENNAN N/A 9
4 12431889 1988 TOPPS 99 HANFORD DIXON N/A 9
5 12431890 1977 TOPPS 476 ROOKIE CATCHERS N/A 5
6 12431891 1979 TOPPS 39 DALE MURPHY N/A 6
7 12431892 1980 TOPPS 274 DALE MURPHY N/A 4
8 12431893 1981 FLEER 243 DALE MURPHY N/A 8
9 12431894 1983 TOPPS 760 DALE MURPHY N/A 7
10 12431895 1986 FLEER 31 DALE MURPHY LIMITED EDITION 8
11 12431896 1987 TOPPS 490 DALE MURPHY N/A 9
12 12431897 2004 ULTRA 220 DELMON YOUNG N/A 9
Date Received: 12/05/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 12/14/2005
Date Shipped: No Date Specified
0
Comments
While that's got to be a little discouraging, take this time to carefully crack out those lower grades and really inspect the cards again. You got some 9's, so compare these with what you crack out. If you take your time, be diligent, and be very honest about your cards the next submission should be much more favorable.
Chalk it up to lessons-learned - we've all been there...................
Very good advice.
Typically, when you see a card with 4 sharp corners and decent-or-better centering come back in a 5 or a 6 holder, it's almost always because of paper wrinkles. Many times, you can see these with the card in the holder. You may need good light and to look at many different angles, but you should see them. 1978, 1979, and 1980 tend to be very prone to these problems.
Another thing to consider. . .if your goal is PSA10s, you're probably not going to get that in an invoice of only 12 cards. In my experience, if you are looking for 10s, you probably need to have at least 50 cards on the order. I don't know all the reasons why this is the case, but my own experience and that of many friends has borne this out. Perhaps it's because with more cards, the grader has a better frame of reference as to what is a truly outstanding example. I can only speculate on this.
Mike
I think the keys will be to determine the differences between the 7,8 and 9. The lower grades should be easy to spot. Though I got one back as a 5 that I thought would be a 7 or a 6 at worst. But alas a 5. Still havent figured out why, havent cracked. But I plan on posting a pic for discussion. One problem that you might have though is you dont have all the same cards to compare the range of grades you got.
I would assume you will have to submit at least 5x the sets to have a decent shot at putting a dent in a PSA 10 set.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>I have even gotten some on free submissions >>
I too have gotten a PSA-10 on a 2 card free submission from the 1936 S&S registry set.
At the time, it was the 1st PSA-10 ever given for any card in that set, it was Floyd Young Pirates.
The other card rec'd a PSA-5. I knew it had wear but I didn't have any other raw card to submit...jay
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
<< <i>Geoff> To expand on what Bill said. . .
Typically, when you see a card with 4 sharp corners and decent-or-better centering come back in a 5 or a 6 holder, it's almost always because of paper wrinkles. Many times, you can see these with the card in the holder. You may need good light and to look at many different angles, but you should see them. 1978, 1979, and 1980 tend to be very prone to these problems.
Another thing to consider. . .if your goal is PSA10s, you're probably not going to get that in an invoice of only 12 cards. In my experience, if you are looking for 10s, you probably need to have at least 50 cards on the order. I don't know all the reasons why this is the case, but my own experience and that of many friends has borne this out. Perhaps it's because with more cards, the grader has a better frame of reference as to what is a truly outstanding example. I can only speculate on this.
Mike >>
Yeah I'm not sure about that 50-card order. I actually got 4 10s out of 6 on my inaugural free submission order. On my second (1 10 out of 3) and third (1 10 out of 8) I also had 10s. Are you referring to 50 of the same brand of card i.e. the 1988 Topps?
Mike
<< <i>My experience, and that of my friends, is that 10s are VERY rare when submitting smaller orders. I don't know if this is because we primarily submit 70s stuff or what. Just my experience.
Mike >>
PSA Order Status for Submission # 582230
LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 31323259 1993 FINEST 172 JACK McDOWELL REFRACTOR 10
2 31323260 1993 FINEST 39 CHRIS SABO REFRACTOR 9
2 31323261 1993 FINEST 39 CHRIS SABO REFRACTOR 9
2 31323262 1993 FINEST 39 CHRIS SABO REFRACTOR 10
2 31323263 1993 FINEST 39 CHRIS SABO REFRACTOR 10
3 31323264 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 10
3 31323265 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 10
3 31323266 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 9
3 31323267 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 9
3 31323268 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 10
3 31323269 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 9
3 31323270 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 10
3 31323271 1993 FINEST 3 BRYAN HARVEY REFRACTOR 10
4 31323272 1993 FINEST 148 WILLIE GREENE REFRACTOR 9
Date Received: 11/01/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 11/03/2005
Date Shipped: 11/04/2005
Late 60's and early to mid 70's non-sports
I have gotten 10's on 2 card submissions as well. Tough cards at that.
PSA Order Status for Submission # 577808
LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 31210515 1985 DONRUSS 273 ROGER CLEMENS N/A 10
1 31210516 1985 DONRUSS 273 ROGER CLEMENS N/A 9
Date Received: 08/04/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 08/05/2005
Date Shipped: 08/08/2005
I don't think it is the number of cards you submit either. I know when I first started I was humbled by the grades and have learned and trained my eye a little better. They whack surface wrinkles and I also have gotten burned by the centering on the back.
My Auctions
My last batch of invoices are a reasonable example of my experience -
Order 1 - Grades posted - 12/5 - 236 cards - 57 1974T - 10 PSA10s --- 17.5% of the 74s came back 10
Order 2 - Grades posted - 16/6 - 36 cards - 23 1974T - ZERO 10s
Other than Jay, I'm waiting for someone to show me small orders with PSA10s - for stuff say 1977 and older.
I've also noticed an interesting trend among my orders for 70s stuff. . .under the recent specials which included 70s stuff, I submitted roughly 1000 cards among 5 or 6 invoices. Each invoice had a wide variety of cards from all 70s years - with most from 73, 74, and 78. Most orders were in the 190-240 card range. I've noticed that when I have a "bad invoice", it's invariably better for the 78s and later stuff. Things like one 10 among a strong group of 73-77 stuff - and then back to "normal" (10-15% PSA10s) for the stuff 78 and later. Almost like the grader remembered how to grade the later stuff. Just an observation.
Mike
How about this one. It is non-sports, but they are from 1939. 25 cards and 2 were 10's
PSA Order Status for Submission # 572853
LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 12190960 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 2 MYRNA LOY SCREEN STARS 9
2 12190961 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 3 NORMA SHEARER SCREEN STARS 8
3 12190962 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 4 OLIVIA DE HAVILLAND SCREEN STARS 9
4 12190963 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD. 5 CONSTANCE CUMMINGS SCREEN STARS 9
5 12190964 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD. 6 JEAN CHATBURN SCREEN STARS 6
6 12190965 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD. 12 VIRGINIA GREY SCREEN STARS 9
7 12190966 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 13 ROSALIND RUSSELL SCREEN STARS 8
8 12190967 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 14 ELEANOR POWELL SCREEN STARS 9
9 12190968 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 15 ANN SHERIDAN SCREEN STARS 8
10 12190969 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 16 SOPHIE STEWART SCREEN STARS 9
11 12190970 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 17 BETTY FURNESS SCREEN STARS 8
12 12190971 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 18 JOAN CRAWFORD SCREEN STARS 8
13 12190972 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 19 MAUREEN O'SULLIVAN SCREEN STARS 8
14 12190973 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 20 CECILIA PARKER SCREEN STARS 9
15 12190974 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 21 ELISSA LANDI SCREEN STARS 9
16 12190975 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 22 ANNA LEE SCREEN STARS 10
17 12190976 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 24 GLENDA FARRELL SCREEN STARS 9
18 12190977 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 25 KAY FRANCIS SCREEN STARS 9
19 12190978 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 26 RUBY KEELER SCREEN STARS 9
20 12190979 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD. 27 LYNNE CARVER SCREEN STARS 9
21 12190980 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 28 DEANNA DURBIN SCREEN STARS 9
22 12190981 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 29 BETTE DAVIS SCREEN STARS 9
23 12190982 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 30 DOROTHY BELLE DUGAN SCREEN STARS 10
24 12190983 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 39 JOAN GARDNER SCREEN STARS 8
25 12190984 1939 ABDULLA & CO. LTD 36 VIVIEN LEIGH SCREEN STARS 9
Date Received: 04/22/2005
Date of Grades Posted: 06/08/2005
Date Shipped: 06/08/2005
I don't know how one would think that they grade bigger submissions easier.
mcastaldi-
Why did you not send in the 36 1974 cards with your 236 card order? My guess is because you passed them up on your first go around and then decided to have them graded later on. But you were right when you passed on them and that is why PSA passed on them.
My Auctions
Actually, I'm sort of surprised at your implication here. I can assure you when I send off orders, I have a very good idea of what to expect back. If you must know. . .in early November, I sent off a 236 card order (583021 - 60083). At the November Chicago Sun-Times show, I handed a 190-card order (583728) to PSA on Sunday. This order included some things not in the previous order (in order to keep 583021 under 250 cards). It also included some things I picked up at the show on Friday & Saturday. The smaller order (584080) consisted of things I picked up at the show which I hadn't had a chance to look at before handing in 583728. It just so happened that all three orders were finsihed within a day of each other. I mean there are reasons other than the quality of the cards which can dictate order size and timing.
That said, on 584080 I knew full well the Aaron & Schmidt were 7s and the Rose was a borderline 7/8. I also knew the Parker RC was an 8 - no more no less. The only reason these were graded was so these could be sold with a set. However, later on in 584080 there are a boatload of cards where the guy just kept his finger on the 9 button. Those cards were easily repersentative of what was on 583021 where I got 15% 10s.
I'm not saying that larger orders are graded easier, as such. I am saying that 10s are more plentiful on larger orders. What makes me say that? A few thousand cards submitted. Not saying what anyone else's experience is, only detailing my experience.
Mike
I guess I was wrong and I understand that you are speaking from your own experience as I am as well. I too have submitted a few thousand cards and have not found that to be the case.
I think a big factor on the 10's is the grader you get. I have the impression that some guys just flat don't give 10's and that some others may be slightly more liberal with 10's. We all know that not all 9's are created equally and I feel all 10's are not created equally.
I am about to send in about 100 cards in this month's collectors club special. I hope I get the more liberal grader.
Jordan
My Auctions
I've had a handful of submissions where I knew I was mostly sending in filler types with a high end of PSA 9. The grades returned were perfectly in line with my expectations. However, on the majority of my submissions, most or all of the cards submitted were, by my humble estimation, very worthy PSA 9/10 candidates. These included 1970-1972 Kellogg's cards, 1966-1972 Sayers and 1976-1987 Payton cards/stickers. I've had a gamut of results, ranging from 0/50 PSA 10s to 32/50 PSA 10s. I've also had my share of 3/3 and 2/2 PSA 10s on freebie subs. More reflective of my results are around 5-10 PSA 10s out of 30-40, but always when I send in cards that look gem to me first.
Here's a general overview of my results for 2005:
Sub #1 - 0/30 PSA 10s (Payton filler sub)
Sub #2 - 3/3 PSA 10s (Payton BGS crossovers)
Sub #3 - 2/2 PSA 10s (Payton free sub)
Sub #4 - 0/30 PSA 10s (Payton filler sub)
Sub #5 - 4/40 PSA 10s (1970 K BB, all the rest PSA 9)
Sub #6 - 14/40 PSA 10s (1970 K FB, all the rest PSA 9)
Sub #7 - 8/25 PSA 10s (Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #8 - 3/20 PSA 10s (Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #9 - 0 /50 PSA 10s (1970 K BB sub - TOUGH grader!!)
Sub #10 - 3/15 PSA 10s (Sayers/Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #11 - 0/6 PSA 10s (Payton box bottoms, NO CHANCE for 10s, finished off my Master set)
Sub #12 - 0/10 PSA 10s (Payton/Sayers non-Registry set fillers)
Sub #13 - 0/10 PSA 10s (payton upgrade sub)
Sub #14 - 2/25 PSA 10s (1970 K FB, all the rest PSA 9)
Sub #15 - 0/30 PSA 10s (1970 K BB sub - TOUGH grader!!)
Sub #16 - 4/25 PSA 10s (Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #17 - 0/10 PSA 10s (Payton/Sayers non-Registry set fillers)
Sub #18 - 1/20 PSA 10s (Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #19 - 0/10 PSA 10s (Payton upgrade sub - TOUGH!!)
Sub #20 - 4/25 PSA 10s (1970 K BB&FB sub)
Sub #21 - 0/2 PSA 10s (Payton Mexicans free sub, NO CHANCE for 10s)
Sub #22 - 1/12 PSA 10s (Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #23 - 1/25 PSA 10 (Payton upgrade sub)
Sub #24 - 36/50 PSA 10s (1970 F BB HOers and 1970 Rold Gold sub - JACKPOT!!)
Sub #25 - 1/40 PSA 10s (1970 K BB sub - TOUGH!!)
Sub #26 - 10/30 PSA 10s (1970 K FB sub)
Sub #27 - 4/15 PSA 10s (Payton/Sayers upgrade sub)
In a nutshell, I've struck gold on one (<5%), and had very tough grades back on about 10-15%. The rest I'd consider to be pretty close to expected, with quantities ranging from 2 to 50 cards. Interestingly, most of these were sent in as CC Special (5 day, $12/card), but the one gold strike was on the October 1970s special ($5/card, variable turnaround time). I see no correlation to # submitted, CC status, etc. , nor with quality (my Kellogg's subs are all GEM worthy to me or I don't submit. Mostly just variability in grader, leaning towards the tough side.
I am assuming those were from the $5 special. You got your grades fast. I handed one 25 card sub and havent gotten grades yet.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Mike
Nice grades. Hard for me to believe that you were not given any 10s on some of those 76s or a few of the 75s that you showed me in Chicago. Cards just dont come any better than those examples.
OH yeah...Im still waiting patiently for a regular issue 20 card mid 70s order that was received before Halloween.No rhyme or reason.