1978 Topps Baseball Mastro Auction
SOM
Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭
Under $5,000 final hammer for that set? The set that included 63 PSA 10's and 652 PSA 9's? You've got to be kidding me.
That's under $7 per card.
Is it just me, or is this downright depressing news? Is the demand on 70's Registry sets that minimal? Have we hit rock bottom? Or...will we look at this $5,000 figure two years from now, and think that even this buyer got screwed?
That's under $7 per card.
Is it just me, or is this downright depressing news? Is the demand on 70's Registry sets that minimal? Have we hit rock bottom? Or...will we look at this $5,000 figure two years from now, and think that even this buyer got screwed?
0
Comments
I do think demand for complete 70's graded sets IS THAT minimal, at this point anyway. I have to say, the whole time I watched that auction I kept thinking that this guy was making a mistake putting that entire set for sale on Mastro of all places. The guys bidding on Mastro auctions IMO are not his kind of sets target audience. I said over and over during this auction that I could not believe this guy did not break the set up intoPSA 10's team sets, low pops, subsets, whatever. THAT is the only way to sell a set like this a realize a decent price. I guarantee that whoever won this set could really do well doing just that.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I'm not competely sure why I'm allowed to place $8000 bids in their "Collectors" auctions, but not in there "premium" auctions. I'm the same person and I'm going to have the same ability to pay in either case.
This is a case where the consigner did not get anywhere near the break value for their cards, but at least Mastro gets their chunk.
DSL does better on large lots via Ebay. At $25 per 10, and $6 per nine it's $5400.
1. There can be invisible shill bidding.
2. There is no sniping.
3. From my experience and that of friends, raw card conditions are highly exaggerated. For example, they may say a raw set is 50% NM-MT, 40% NM and 10% VG. In actuality, you find out it is 30% NM, 40% VG and 30% Good. Talk about disappoinment after spending big bucks! We've learned the hard way NEVER to bid on raw cards in these auctions. You can take a chance on a $5 or $10 raw card in Ebay, but not at the prices of these auctions!
priveledge of bidding on their auctions but if
anyone from Mastro is reading these boards,
I certainly would've bid higher on that '78 set.
Oh well........
wpkoughan@yahoo.com
Collecting 1970-1979 PSA 9 & 10 Baseball Cards
As for the $75, its there fee, pay if you want to bid, if you dont pay you cant bid. I really dont think a couple of people saying they would of paid more for 1 set is going to change there mind. They have always had the policy. There catalouges are books containing art in my opinion.
I have a great example for you from this Mastronet auction. In the auction they sold a 1969 #90 Jerry Koosman PSA 10. Its a POP 1. I know it was my card originally. I had it graded earier in the year and sold it on Ebay. It was listed for $699.99. I figured it was worth it being a 1969 Met card and with numerous Mets collectors it should sell for around $1000. Especially since a Cleon Jones in 9 sold for $1500. Well it sold for the opening bid of $699.99 to the gentleman who just sold it in the Mastro auction. The final price of the card now was over $1500 and thats without the 17.5% added on. Do I think there were shill bidders? No, because that was 1 card. Some of the other group lots from the set which also was originally mine. (with many upgrades) sold cheaply. (in my opinion). I guess what Im trying to say is. Pay what your willing to pay. If it goes over, so be it. It just seems as if someone is always trying to get the bargain. Ive found out in this hobby, there are not very many of them. I usually say, "if you win an item at auction, in most cases you overpaid"
Example.......... you are 1 card away from completing a set. the card you need comes up maybe 1x every year. you place your bid. the owner of the card shills it and you lose out. do you care now?
Example........you are willing to pay 100.00 for a card. No one else wants or needs it. you get shilled up from the starting bid of 24.99 to your max. do you now care?
Steve
<< <i>Example........you are willing to pay 100.00 for a card. No one else wants or needs it. you get shilled up from the starting bid of 24.99 to your max. do you now care?
Steve >>
yes..
Is the $75 a one time fee as long as you actively bid, or are you required to win items to remain in good standing? I don't have enough confidence that I'd win frequently, but it certainly would have nice to try for that set.
Thanks, it's looking like upgrading my status is probably the right thing to do.
I look at it this way, I add 75.00 to the first auction I won, thats all.
I had a board member ask me to put a bid in becuse he couldnt register in time. ( the reason they cant register you the last day is becuse they may not be able to verify your refrences in time) anyway, he won a set that was in the auction and some of the cards were raw. I will let you know if Mastro overgrades raw or calls it like they see it. I cant believe that mastro would still be in business if they were always "overgrading" raw cards. That would get out so fast they would be crushed.
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The $75 is a one time registration fee. You don't have to win auctions, but merely bid on them. I haven't won a premier auction lot in about 2 years, but I bid on about 10-20 auctions everytime, and I still get my catalogs. I do win lots in the collector's auctions.
The $75 more than pays for itself in the pictures and write-ups in the auctions. The information in these catalogs is immense, and many of the pictures are of items you don't see everyday.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
I"ve had very good luck buying raw mastro lots- especially the ones that came from the Chicago office and Lifson when he was with them. Many cards received higher grades from PSA than stated in the catalog.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
"The final price of the card now was over $1500 and thats without the 17.5% added on. Do I think there were shill bidders? No, because that was 1 card."
That doesn't make sense! You may think there were no shill bidders, but you don't know there weren't. There were 21 bids on this lot. You do not know who placed them.
Chris
<< <i>I too am too cheap to pay out $75 just for the
priveledge of bidding on their auctions but if
anyone from Mastro is reading these boards,
I certainly would've bid higher on that '78 set.
Oh well........ >>
Bill, YOU, ME, AND two other friends I talked to today would have hit that set for more than it went if it were not on Mastro. No kidding .... Mastro is NOT the place
for that kind of set. No doubt in my mind that it would have done ALOT better on even e-bay. I talked to Funky Frank Smith today and he agreed ....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Notwithstanding those remarks, why didn't somebody here bid on the set and buy it? Surely somebody in the 1978 PSA Registry is registered with Mastro...and would have jumped on that lot if it indeed were such a "steal."
But no one did. And THAT is why I am so afraid we are slipping even under rock bottom for our late-70's Registry sets.
Nick
<< <i>I don't understand. Isn't the seller a member of these boards? Or, at least read them occasionally? Is s/he that unenlightened? I am certain that any one of us would have counseled that seller to NOT use Mastro to auction that set.
Notwithstanding those remarks, why didn't somebody here bid on the set and buy it? Surely somebody in the 1978 PSA Registry is registered with Mastro...and would have jumped on that lot if it indeed were such a "steal."
But no one did. And THAT is why I am so afraid we are slipping even under rock bottom for our late-70's Registry sets.
Nick >>
Nick,
Frank Smith is not registered and he is numero UNO in our beloved 78 set.... among other 70's sets. That set DID NOT belong on Mastro. The collectors who buy these cards are a different breed then the Mastro guys .... no doubt that set would have done much better even on e-bay. I would have hit it, agustaman would have hit it, Funky Frank would have hit it .....
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
They are also very accurate in their raw card grading. The head vintage card expert at Mastronet won the PSA grading competition two years ago at the 2004 Cleveland National.
As for the shilling, if I were to pay 4 times as much as the card was worth just because it was the last card, then shame on me. No one twisted your arm to press the bid button. Start taking responsibility for your own actions. If I suspected that was the case, I wouldnt bid on that card or any other from that seller. Although I will admit to bidding and winning a horse knowing the owner was actively bidding.
I agree, there pretty damn accurate with the grades. I won a super 1969 set, paid through the nose for it after talking with that gentlemen. Was not disappointed.
In one sentence you state it does not bother you and then in the next you state you would not bid if you knew.
I never stated that you paid 4x what it was worth. I assumed that if you bid 100.00 (that it was your max) and thus worth that amount. In the example I tried to show the shill then brought you up to a Max BID.
I agree know one ever twists arms and makes any of us bid.
SD
for that kind of set. No doubt in my mind that it would have done ALOT better on even e-bay. I talked to Funky Frank Smith today and he agreed ....
Softparade-This is why you should have bid on the set. You are probably right that you don't consign this type of item in Mastro, however as a buyer this is what you buy. If you know that this set is undervalued then buy it and break it up on Ebay or split it with Frank Smith. You are really missing the boat by not participating in such auctions. Two years ago a 1993 Topps Finest Refractor set was sold through Mastro. The set was purchased by a friend for $7800. He broke the set up and sold it for $20,000. The only downside to this was that it took him roughly seven weeks to sell everything. That is why you participate in these auctions. You may not win anything for two years, but sometimes you find diamonds in the rough.
<< <i>
Softparade-This is why you should have bid on the set. You are probably right that you don't consign this type of item in Mastro, however as a buyer this is what you buy. If you know that this set is undervalued then buy it and break it up on Ebay or split it with Frank Smith. You are really missing the boat by not participating in such auctions. Two years ago a 1993 Topps Finest Refractor set was sold through Mastro. The set was purchased by a friend for $7800. He broke the set up and sold it for $20,000. The only downside to this was that it took him roughly seven weeks to sell everything. That is why you participate in these auctions. You may not win anything for two years, but sometimes you find diamonds in the rough. >>
Can't argue with any of your points 54 ........ still, if I were to sell my set it would not be through Mastro.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>The moral of the story is that not spending the $75 is looking penny wise and pound foolish. Oh well I'll get 'em next time. >>
DITTO
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Their catalogs look great and make great references. Those are worth the $75. I thought their latest one with Ty Cobb on the front was the best looking of the year.
much money, especially if you're bidding on items for
several thousand dollars but..............
I read alot of members writing that the catalogs more
than make up for the $75 registration cost. The quality
is great, the write-ups are awesome, etc, etc.....
My point is this - isn't the 18% we've agreed to pay
ON TOP OF the winnning bid price covering the cost of
these "beautiful" catalogs.
And if you don't win anything, you've still spent $75.
Whether it's a one time fee or not, someone step up
and actually admit they would pay $75 for the last 4-5
Mastro Auction catalogs. I don't believe it.
A major auction that realizes $10 million in sales and picks
up 15% on both the front and back ends will earn $3 mil.
Some premium items will pay much lower consignment costs,
I know this, but I just can't justify it. Penny wise and pound
foolish perhaps....did I miss out on a great '78 set bargain
ofcourse.......but in my mind, it's petty for them to ask for the
$75 and it turns me off immediately.
wpkoughan@yahoo.com
Collecting 1970-1979 PSA 9 & 10 Baseball Cards
I see it as.....the upside is that you've got access to thousands and thousands of high quality lots each year and if you pick up just one to resell/break up, you've more than paid for your investment (say the average lot sells for $1,500, it's a 5% one time fee).
I'd rather have $75 worth of Mastro catalogs, than $75 worth of SCD, SMR, Tuff Stuff or any other sports collectibles magazine.
Think of it in terms of your overall card budget. I spend $8 a few times a year to go to the Naxcom Hollywood Park show. $24 a year on top of inflated dealer prices at an otherwise blah show. Or a $100 a year for a PSA membership. Add on ebay fees, paypal fees, misc....and $75 for some nice catalogs doesn't mean much.
It depends on what you're collecting and your goals.
I don't think Mastro's model is necessarily unique or unreasonably "greedy". Profiles in History is at the top of their market and they charge $30 for catalogs. Goodwin, Lelands, Mile High...they all charge 15-17.5%.
Mastro just isn't the place to sell this kind of set.
I a glad I got in on the bottom floor then years ago.
<< <i>Was the seller Spikemax? >>
No, the seller was the owner of the #5 set on the registry.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I had two single auctions about two years ago or so. One was a 1978 Topps Nolan Ryan in a PSA 9 (REGULAR ISSUE) for $780 to a guy back east, and sold the Murray 9 for around $350 if i recall. Sounds like he got screwed.