Dealing with different dealer styles

Fuzz

As those of you who know me, I am rarely at a loss for an opinion but this time I am asking for others. And please remember we don't need another "isn't Jay Wolt a great guy" thread. He deserves it but let that be another one.
There are dealers out there that buy for their collection.
There are dealers that place low ball bids to stock their inventory.
There are dealers that bid high on specific cards as a want list service to prefered clients.
There are dealers that bid high for cards to place in inventory.
Now I don't intend for this to involve any names and certainly don't mean for this to be bashing. Do any of these practices in general bother anyone and if so, how do you deal with the ones that do?
Fuzz

eyebone

Dealers who collaborate with other dealers in order to lowball unsuspecting sellers. Then they share in the booty....

Eyebone

WinPitcher

None bother me.

SD

MorrellMan

<< <i>There are dealers out there that buy for their collection.
There are dealers that place low ball bids to stock their inventory.
There are dealers that bid high on specific cards as a want list service to prefered clients.
There are dealers that bid high for cards to place in inventory.
>>



I got no problem with any of the above. There's no reason to have a problem with any of the above.

There are dealers out there that buy for their collection.
We're all collectors; no reason a dealer should be any different.

There are dealers that place low ball bids to stock their inventory.
If they win the item, then their lowball bid is actually the high bid. If I see it, want it, am willing to put up for it, a lowball bid means nothing.

There are dealers that bid high on specific cards as a want list service to prefered clients.
A proxy bid is no different than a bid from the client - I could care less who actually plunks down the dough for the purchase. Obviously, someone is willing to pay more for that card than me.

There are dealers that bid high for cards to place in inventory.
See above; if they're willing to pay more for the card than me, then fair's fair.

spacktrack

OK with all of them.

If they buy for their collection and want to pay more than me, they are free to do so. I have no problem with a dealer who collects as well.

If they place low ball bids to stock their inventory, why should I fault them? Isn't a dealer's goal to sell for more than he bought? If he wins the item fair and square at auction why would it bother me.

If they bid high on a certain card for a client, it doesn't bother me since someone's willing to pay more than me.

If they bid high on a card for inventory because they think they can sell it for more, why should I care? I obviously would have reached my max and if they win it, fine.

There are dealers who win a card for a low price on ebBay and then I will buy from them assuming the price is still inline with what I want to pay. Doesn't matter to me how they got it as long as they have it at a price I am willing to pay.

MorrellMan

<< <i>Dealers who collaborate with other dealers in order to lowball unsuspecting sellers. Then they share in the booty....

Eyebone >>



I don't mean to be daft, man, but I don't get what you're saying here. Please 'splain.

phreakydancin

Curious line of questioning, Fuzz. Is there a specific reason any of the practices you mention should cause concern? Have you witnessed something that you found questionable? Can you give specifics, maybe without mentioning names?

1420sports

Dealers who collaborate with other dealers in order to lowball unsuspecting sellers. Then they share in the booty....

that is the only one I could have a problem with, but I don't know how that happens

Wabittwax

<< <i>Dealers who collaborate with other dealers in order to lowball unsuspecting sellers. Then they share in the booty.... >>



That really isn't any different than when 2 collectors collaborate ahead of time so as not to go head to head on a series of auctions on Ebay even though both are actively pursuing the set. The seller winds up losing money if the collector's had not spoken beforehand. Many people would call them savvy collector's and admire their ingenuity although it is still a form of conspiracy.

1420sports

When I was heavy in the Rose Master set, I would shy away from bidding if one of the other collectors "got there first" - there were three of us, and the other two collectors pretty much did the same thing.

I don't think there was anything wrong with that.

1954

This is a very odd thread. I use dealers to purchase items that I need for my collection. Since I buy mostly regional/test issue/pre-war cards, I have to depend upon those dealers who I trust to find me those items. Regardless if they paid $4.00 or $400 and want to sell the card for $600, I need to decide if that card is priced right. Know the value of the product before they come to you with an item. However, nothing bothers me about dealers as Steve said.
I think it is great to see a dealer collect and sell. Levi is about the only dealer that I know that can financial do this and still be successful as a dealer. I find myself more willing to buy from a dealer like this because of his knowledge and love for the hobby.
I do know of a couple of dealers that obtain want lists for the purpose of sticking you with the card (commonly known as being buried in the card). Those dealers that operate their business like this are only going to have a short career and be labeled by collectors as the 'bad guys'.

Shane

Davalillo

I also have no problems with any dealers except for those that put their stuff on ebay without calling me first.

Its the collectors that outbid me that I have a problem with.

Fabfrank

None of those things bother me either.
I'll tell you what dealer styles do bother me.
Dealers who ignore customers at shows.
Dealers that don't price inventory
Dealers that have no idea what cards are in their inventory
When asking a dealer if they have a particular card, they point to 4-5 5000 card boxes and say "It's in there somewhere, look through and see"

1954

Jim-
Don't get mad at these collectors for outbidding you on items. This hobby would not be fun if you could reach your goals of 100 sets in PSA 8+ in four years.

Shane
You can still call me about the Greatest MOments

cardfan07

Unless they're shill bidding or something else that raises an eyebrow, the dealer that does those things is just like us. I'm guessing that we'd all like to flip something for a quick profit if at all possible...and I know everything I buy is for my collection as I'm not a dealer.

The thing that bugs the hell out of me is a dealer who won't respond to your requests from their website. Like I have to wave the 52 Topps Mantle magic wand for you to sell me some of your cards. That's something I've run into once or twice and I just have to wonder who they're selling to if not me?

mikeschmidt

My biggest worry are those dealers who can subtlely alter cards, resubmit, and obtain higher grades.

~ms

Davalillo

Marc,

I'm still worried about that too--good point.

perkdog

<< <i>None of those things bother me either.
I'll tell you what dealer styles do bother me.
Dealers who ignore customers at shows.
Dealers that don't price inventory
Dealers that have no idea what cards are in their inventory
When asking a dealer if they have a particular card, they point to 4-5 5000 card boxes and say "It's in there somewhere, look through and see" >>



I agree 100% with you!


I always try to understand that dealers are trying to get the most $$$ from me and Im trying to give them the least amount of $$ bottom line.

CDC4

I have a couple of issues. The lack of business ability by many dealers. Yes, many dealers have great cards but it isn't gold either. Many of these guys won't even say hello to you as you're contemplating spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on cards in their cases. There was one dealer who is no longer in the hobby who would say hello to anyone who stopped at his table regardless of whether you were a repeat customer or just someone browsing down the aisles. I think that goes a long way in any business.


The other issue I have is the lack of respect for younger collectors. I started my 1957 Topps set in 1997. I was 16 at that time. That year I went to Sports Fest in Philadelphia I was looking for a nice Mantle for my set. I stopped by a major dealer's booth who had a nice PSA 9 Mantle. I asked him to see the card and he just quoted the price. I asked him again to see the card and he said no. I was in shock I couldn't believe he wouldn't show the card to me. That September I was in Fort Washington and I ended up buying a PSA 8 Mantle from another dealer who ironically was set up right next to the dealer who didn't show me the 9. I paid the gentleman cash as the other dealer watched cause no one was at his table. Wouldn't you know that since that time the dealer who wouldn't show me a card now stops me when I walk into a show. Just cause someone looks a certain way doesn't mean they can't afford cetain cards.

Machodoc

I can't decide if this irritates or amuses me in an odd way, but there are some dealers who price their cards so unrealistically high that they literally keep them for years. I've seen this more times than one might expect, and of course these are the guys who refuse to negotiate. While this tends to involve a small number of sellers, one had to wonder if these guys are actually in business to sell cards or if it's just their way of showing off their collection and being happy if some idiot or some collector desparate to plug a hole in his collection actually bites once in a blue moon.

SW

Boopotts

<< <i>I can't decide if this irritates or amuses me in an odd way, but there are some dealers who price their cards so unrealistically high that they literally keep them for years. I've seen this more times than one might expect, and of course these are the guys who refuse to negotiate. While this tends to involve a small number of sellers, one had to wonder if these guys are actually in business to sell cards or if it's just their way of showing off their collection and being happy if some idiot or some collector desparate to plug a hole in his collection actually bites once in a blue moon.

SW >>




This kind of annoys me as well, although I'm more then a little ashamed that I would have an opinion on it either way.

perkdog

Its funny you brought that up (Machodoc) I have been eye-balling a certain item that I tried to negotiate with a certain dealer 2 years ago, the guy was grossly overpriced and refused to budge even a little bit on his price. Well to this day the card is STILL for sale on his ebay store and has not sold.

Fabfrank

The other issue I have is the lack of respect for younger collectors. I started my 1957 Topps set in 1997. I was 16 at that time. That year I went to Sports Fest in Philadelphia I was looking for a nice Mantle for my set. I stopped by a major dealer's booth who had a nice PSA 9 Mantle. I asked him to see the card and he just quoted the price. I asked him again to see the card and he said no. I was in shock I couldn't believe he wouldn't show the card to me. That September I was in Fort Washington and I ended up buying a PSA 8 Mantle from another dealer who ironically was set up right next to the dealer who didn't show me the 9. I paid the gentleman cash as the other dealer watched cause no one was at his table. Wouldn't you know that since that time the dealer who wouldn't show me a card now stops me when I walk into a show. Just cause someone looks a certain way doesn't mean they can't afford cetain cards.

CDC4- I learned a similar lesson years ago. I was in my early 20's and working tables at card shows for my uncle. We always had a nice mix of merchandise. Vintage, unopened, supplies, modern, sets, etc. One day this nerdy kid of about 11-12 years old walks up to the table with a briefcase and asks to see some of our vintage Rc's. Reggie Jackson, Brooks Robinson, Eddie Matthews and some other cards from the 50's and 60's. I ask the kid if he's sure and doesn't maybe want to see our Strawberry, Canseco and other modern RC cards instead. He politely says no and points to the vintage again. I give the kid the cards and he whips out a huge magnifying glass (maybe he was a young Keith Abrams) and begins to inspect the cards. He decides on the cards he wants, asks for the total (which comes to $300- $400) and takes out a wad of cash to pay. At this point I got a little nervous with such a young kid having so much cash. I told him he needed an adult with him to spend this kind of money. Suddenly an adult steps up who was discreetly observing from a few feet from the table. He says he's the kids father and that it's alright for him to purchase the cards.
I question the dad why the kid likes vintage and not newer material? The kid answers "Because I think the older players are a better investment"
From that point on I learned to always disregard appearances and always treat everyone the same. With respect and dignity.

Davalillo

FabFrank,

I got an e-mail from a high school kid a year ago who was interested in my 48 Leaf Baugh psa 8--I told him $7,500 firm. He meets me at the Barnes & Noble and I show him the card--he inspects it, goes back to consult with his father. He comes back looks at it closely for another couple of minutes--goes back to talk to his Dad. Then he does it a 3rd time. After all that he and his father approach me and ask if I can lower the price--I say no--back for another consultation.

The kid comes back alone and peels off 75 $100 bills. His father then walks over and said this represented all of the kids summer earnings the past two years.

I asked him a couple of times if he was sure he wanted to do it--he insisted yes. I then said if he changed his mind in the next week I would give him a 100% refund. He thanked me and that was the last time I have ever seen him.

Jim

Fabfrank

Jim- That is a great story. I wonder what this kid did to earn that kind of money over two summers?

CDC4

I can see the kid looking at the card three times and debating over buying it or not. I did the same thing back then. Over 2 summers that's 3750 a summer for 8 weeks of work roughly 470 a week. I can see that if he's working at an upscale summer camp or where ever. Plus factor in some birthdays and holidays and it's possible.

I had another dealer I bought several large 57's from totaling just over 5K a couple of years ago. I saw the cards on Saturday gave him a deposit and told him I would come back Sunday with the rest. I get up early so I got to the show when it opened at 9 am. He wasn't there when I came in. So I waited. Finally the dealer strolled in "under the weather" at 1 pm. I was very annoyed. I had shown up early to finish the deal and make it back to my house in Northern NJ by lunch time instead this turned into an all day affair. Very frustrating.

Carlo

shouldabeena10

<< <i>I wonder what this kid did to earn that kind of money over two summers? >>



he was probably working for Jim ... sorting all his cards

Fabfrank

he was probably working for Jim ... sorting all his cards

The tought of maybe a personal intern did cross my mind

1967topps

>Many of these guys won't even say hello to you as you're contemplating spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on cards in their cases.>>

Wow...anyone who shows up in front of a table should get at least a "how ya' doin' which in the East (recall a certain
Beer commercial a few years back) can be as short as a 2 syllable utterance and is said rhetorically but respectfully.


(I'm doin' fine, thanks for asking. Just got in town, my brother in law picked me up at the airport, mighty big airport...)