PSA Pack Grading

robstar

I think it is safe to say now that it is just a matter of when rather than if in regards to PSA pack grading and authentication. We will undoubtably see unopened pack PSA Registry sets added as well. I for one am really looking forward to it.

Just a few questions I'd like to throw out for discussion:

Does anyone here have a stash of vintage packs that they will send to PSA?

Do you think that now that PSA has taken this step that we will see an influx of unopened material come into the market?

Is now a good time to be buying GAI packs as I'm sure that PSA will offer a crossover service?

On the flipside, could now be a bad time to be buying GAI packs as they could quickly become second tier in the segment once PSA starts grading and authenticating packs.

I have always had an interest in vintage unopened material but have only recently begun picking up a few GAI packs. I am wondering whether or not I should curb my spending until PSA gets this thing going.

If anyone has any inside info in regards to when exactly PSA plans to get pack grading and authentication off the ground feel free to share it here.

The floor is now open.

Have a great day..

Rob..

baseballfanatic

All GAI crossover packs will be returned as trimmed.............

ndleo

If PSA does offer the service, they should have a box discount. I have a box of 1976-77 Topps Basketball that I've been sitting on for years. I've been debating whether to open the pack, sell the box whole, or have packs graded and sell individually.

RedHeart54

<< <i>On the flipside, could now be a bad time to be buying GAI packs as they could quickly become second tier in the segment once PSA starts grading and authenticating packs. >>



I think that depends whether PSA's head authenticator has a better rep than GAI's. (I haven't heard who PSA is getting. GAI still has Ryan Rutter, right?) On the other hand, as much as I've read here about poor quality control and customer service issues on GAI's part, PSA could easily overtake their market share them unless GAI gets its act together.

RipublicaninMass

<< <i>

<< <i>On the flipside, could now be a bad time to be buying GAI packs as they could quickly become second tier in the segment once PSA starts grading and authenticating packs. >>



I think that depends whether PSA's head authenticator has a better rep than GAI's. (I haven't heard who PSA is getting. GAI still has Ryan Rutter, right?) On the other hand, as much as I've read here about poor quality control and customer service issues on GAI's part, PSA could easily overtake their market share them unless GAI gets its act together. >>



I thought there was some talk as to MArk Murphy doing the packs. I think that would pretty much blow GAI out of the water. A VERY smart move to PSA.

julen23

The fact the Mark Murphy is doing/done very little to upgrade his site the past year and is very tardy in responding to inventory requests seems to point to the fact the he is doing something else besides selling unopened stuff. I wish Steve Hart would offer 10% off $500 and over orders, that was always a bonus/incentive in purchasing from Mark Murphy.

They both are the most reputable guys in business for unopened stuff though, I have no reserves buying from either.

Julen

BBCE

I guess you guys missed the press release from about a month ago!

Here is the URL:

http://www.psacard.com/articles/article_view.chtml?artid=4569&universeid=314&type=1

Thanks! Steve

IJustLoveCards

Steve,

Are you still planning to sell unopened ungraded stuff?

Are you going to be the one authenticating the stuff people buy from you?

BBCE

Yes, I will be the only one who authenticates all unopened material for PSA. I AM NOT GRADING ANYTHING. All I do is put a simple "yes" or "no" on each item(unless it's a simple "popped seal", etc) letting PSA know if it is legit or fake/resealed garbage. Therefore, I'm not putting a grade number on it, just picking out the real from the re-sealed.

Yes, my business will continue as it always has been. You may find it hard to believe, but 45% of our sales come from unopened junk material and newer stuff(that nobody would ever grade), 45% from single graded cards and only 10% from vintage unopened material. Some may think of this as a conflict of interest on the vintage stuff. However, I have been selling unopened material for 20 years and authenticating it myself. Everyone who has bought from me has taken my own word that is was good. Now I am just doing it for everyone that wants to submit it to PSA. My reputataion has shown for decades that we don't play games here! Same thing will now just carry over to authenticating your items.

Thanks! Steve Hart

KansasJayhawk

I indeed did miss that, that is great news for PSA IMO, and congratulations to you Steve. I will have my packs ready for grading and crossover, is there a date in place yet for the service to start?

Chris

BBCE

Chris,
PSA is shooting to have it around opening day for baseball season(isn't that when the earth starts to rotate again??) They are in the process of creating the molds. It may take a few tries as we are trying to find a way to keep the gum from shifting. This seems to cause the wrapper to tear, even after it is encapsulated. Thanks! Steve

brianwintersfan

<< <i>I have a box of 1976-77 Topps Basketball that I've been sitting on for years >>



Well if you get bored I would be happy to take over sitting on it!

IJustLoveCards

<<<<<< Yes, I will be the only one who authenticates all unopened material for PSA. I AM NOT GRADING ANYTHING. All I do is put a simple "yes" or "no" on each item(unless it's a simple "popped seal", etc) letting PSA know if it is legit or fake/resealed garbage. Therefore, I'm not putting a grade number on it, just picking out the real from the re-sealed.>>>


ok, that leads me into my next question, Who is PSA going to have Grade The Packs and what type of experience do they have? What standards are they going to use to decide a pack is a 7 or 8 or 9.

I think PSA needs to step to the plate and let us know exactly how they plan to grade and what standards they will use.

I sure hope some 6.00 an hour grader who has no experience grading packs isn't all of a sudden going to be made "Expert Pack Grader". In fact, even the top grader in cards just cant start picking up packs and put grades on them. Someone with some sort of pack experience needs to head the grading portion. I would hope maybe PSA gets a Mark Murphy to come over and head the grading aspect of this new area.

dakota

This thread has me thinking. I dont personally collect unopened material but IMO I think it is a great investment if left unopened and has not been tampered with. The one thing I have not yet bought into is putting a numbered grade on unopened packs/boxes.I like what Steve said about either a "yes or a "no" on unopened material.That is really all that counts,right??

Onlypsahockey

Not true Dakota...I recently passed on a 79-80 OPC pack for $40.00.

No I'm not insane, the condition of the 4 corners of the pack availed that any card inside would grade out in the 5-6 range. If I want 5-6 1979 opc singles I'll get them alot cheaper than that. $40.00 for a slim shot at an EX Gretzky was a bad investment IMO. So, while pack grading is not a necessity it does has its benefits when buying online.

Bob

packCollector

<< <i>No I'm not insane, the condition of the 4 corners of the pack availed that any card inside would grade out in the 5-6 range. If I want 5-6 1979 opc singles I'll get them alot cheaper than that. $40.00 for a slim shot at an EX Gretzky was a bad investment IMO. So, while pack grading is not a necessity it does has its benefits when buying online.
>>



very true but a 10 point scale is not useful. all it does is drive the ego maniacs and the whole point of authentication gets lost. a 20 point scale as GAI has is even more useless. a simple 5 point scale or something to that effect would be ideal ( 1 being probably water damaged , 4 and 5 being high quality where the cards will most likely be undamaged and the 2 grades being a gauge of the overall look of hte pack , 3 being a pack that could go either way and 2 who knows . that said you will probably see a 10 point scale because that is what drives sales prices , creates a hoopla for psa and in turn drives submissions.

and finally don't be naive , this isn't being done for profit as there isn't enough packs to generate any real income fo a corporation like cu, it is an attempt to be the straw that broke the camels back to gai as that is the one thing gai has over psa at this point. if they stop the flow of packs , they can most likely reduce the flow of cards due to the reduced market recognition of the gai brand name.

julen23

isn't the grading reflective of the pack itself, not of the condition of the cards inside?

Julen

Griffins

<< <i>and finally don't be naive , this isn't being done for profit as there isn't enough packs to generate any real income fo a corporation like cu, it is an attempt to be the straw that broke the camels back to gai as that is the one thing gai has over psa at this point. if they stop the flow of packs , they can most likely reduce the flow of cards due to the reduced market recognition of the gai brand name. >>



Joe flat out said PSA wasn't going to grade packs at the luncheon in Cleveland, that the market was too small and it was too late.
I think he's right, most collectors of packs just get one of each year, and once you get pre '60 it gets both tough and expensive. Post '75 the grading costs more than the pack is worth. So I think the scenario above is the most likely.
What will be interesting to see is if most existing pack collectors cross over their packs. There was a thread on this in the pack collectors board and it didn't look like any would. Once of the reasons I buy PSA graded cards is that the particular set (any particular set) I'm collecting is more plentiful in PSA holders and I hate having mixed holders. I'll buy other holders and crack and submit, but I'll factor in that price, hassle and risk. With GAI having a 3 year jump on inventory PSA is going to have to offer a significant incentive on their pack grading. Steve Hart is a big asset, but beyond that price, holder, and something to do with the registry is going to be necessary. I"m thinking a bonus 1.0 point on a set if the pack is registered as well, much like having the rare #80 in the '60 Fleer set gets a 1 grade jump. But can you imagine the screaming when someone gets a '72 pack and bumps up a full grade?

Dallas88

and finally don't be naive , this isn't being done for profit as there isn't enough packs to generate any real income fo a corporation like cu, it is an attempt to be the straw that broke the camels back to gai as that is the one thing gai has over psa at this point.

...I'm guessing that packcollector hit it right on the head there.

Any good business ALWAYS thinks about how to squash the competition. Find what the competition does better, and then reinvent it, or do it better than they do.

This business move should do two things.....knock the PSA reputation, and market-share up a bit, and as Pack said, it should stop the trickle of unopened pack inventory to GAI.

Savvy - should have been done awhile ago - in my humble opinion.

Also - I like the idea of not assigning a 10 point grade to the pack itself.....authentic/unopened, or something similar, would work for myself.

RipublicaninMass

I would like the 10 point system. Just to buy hte "cheap" 5's and 6's and crack them. Being able to sumbit cards with 9 and 10 quality. Let the upper eschelons fight it out over the 8's and up!

rana

Steve, if you could pass along some suggestions I already made to PSA via email (I don't know if they went anywhere once I emailed them), I'd be appreciative:

- GAI packs make it nearly impossible to read the seals on the packs, because the plastic is so glossy. Something less glossy on the back would make it easier to see the reflection off the seal itself instead of the holder.
- The GAI pack holders sometimes make it had to see the details on the corners, because the bend in the plastic there distorts the view of the corner.
- If the holder stacks a little nicer than the GAI ones, that would be great.
- If possible, limit the use of foam inserts for the most common pack sizes, since those are so ugly I can't stand looking at them. If necessary, use a soft plastic spacer of some kind that blends in with the holder.
- Obviously, the pack and gum should move around as little as possible, without smashing the pack and without any sharp edges, but I'm sure they already took cars of this in the design. In other words, none of
These
- GAI seems to have problems keeping the non-standard holders in stock, forcing us to wait months for orders containing oversized packs. Make sure PSA's supplier can keep up with demand.
- Please allow different size packs on the same order. Nothing frustrates me more than a company making things hard on customers by doubling the paperwork.
- Make sure the packs don't sit in a way they might get damaged whether stored horizontal or vertical when in storage.
- The GAI pack holders are much better than the PSA card holders as far as foiling crooks who try to crack them and then slip in new product and reseal. Make sure he PSA holders are as good or better than GAI in this respect.
- I don't want to start a flame war, but I like the GAI .5 grading system. I don't care either way about qualifiers, but I do slightly prefer the 4-way grading BGS uses, so I can more accurately and reliably get something that fits my personal condition preferences from only a scan online.

Here is my previous post on the grading scale issue, and I think applies equally to packs:



<< <i>No matter how granular your grading system, there are always borderline cards. If PSA graders are making changes to grades on resubmits for borderline cards, I have absolutely no problem with that - it is inherent in the subjective process of grading those borderline cards. That sort of grade change would continue with any subjective grading system, but the borderline cards will be confined to a range of .5 rather than 1. If PSA graders are regularly making grade changes on resubmits for non-borderline cards (and I'm not insisting they do this), it is a training/hiring issue for PSA, not necessarily a flaw in the grading system. I personally want more info available on the cards I buy and sell, especially with online purchases.

Assuming some less-accurate PSA graders sometimes vary by 1 grade or more when grading, and best ones rarely give different grades on regrading, then a .5 system helps those cards graded by the best graders (those handling the high dollar or rare cards) to be more accurate, and overall the grades are more accurate. But if some graders are not consistent, I agree that no new grading system at all can help those graders get more accurate grades....

The only argument against a more precise grading system I can see is that a reasonably well-trained grader can't normally differentiate between one grade and another. For .5 grades, I simply don't believe that to be the case. For .1 grades, I would agree, though. Many people I've seen arguing against .5 grades are just not willing to accept change, when it comes down to it. >>



(and thanks for your great service in the past)

Thanks,
Erik

rana

One more minor suggestion is to make sure the new holders are not excessively prone to scratching.

Griffins

since we're adding wish lists, how about a holder with a bit of UV protection so it can be displayed without risk of fading under normal circumstances.

Lothar52

What about unopened SETS....i have a 1985 USFL set that appears to be sealed with the original yellow crappy tape.....will they be authenticating that?? Does GAI do that??? i know GAI will seal an entire wax box in its entirety.

loth