Opinions wanted regarding e-mail I sent to BJ

gregm13

For those collecting or thinking of collecting the FB HOF autographed card set, could you please provide your opinion on the e-mail below that I sent to BJ today.

Regards,

Greg M.


BJ,

I am actively starting to collect the football HOF players/coaches/admin autograph set and there are two issues that I would like to discuss with you.

1. I would like to propose a weighting system be applied. I was thinking of a weighting system that takes into account the player's popularity and difficulty of obtaining the autograph. One option would be to use the autograph prices for gum cards, as quoted in the SMR, as a base.

2. There are several autographs in the set that are impossible to obtain and should therefore be removed. For instance, Tim Mara is included in the set but the SMR lists that an autographed gum card is impossible to obtain. I propose that for the HOF players with IMP listed under the gum card price, the card should be removed from the set. Further changes can be made if a gum card is found to exist or vice versa.

I look forward to your response.

Regards,

Greg M.

jradke4

sounds reasonable to me. you cant have a signed gum card if there isnt a card available. or the person died before one became available (like the hall of fame sets that have been issued.

envoy98

The set doesn't neccessarily have to consist strictly of gum cards though...correct? Can't any item that is PSA/DNA'd be included as part of the set as well? ie. a cut sig, signed index card, letter, jersey, football etc?

I do not participate in this set (yet) so I have no vested interest either way. I wasn't sure if you were aware of the possibility of other inclusions in the set other than signed gum cards.

I am making the assumption it works the same as the baseball autograph sets, I apologize if that is not the case.

-Josh

gregm13

<< <i>The set doesn't neccessarily have to consist strictly of gum cards though...correct? Can't any item that is PSA/DNA'd be included as part of the set as well? ie. a cut sig, signed index card, letter, jersey, football etc?

I do not participate in this set (yet) so I have no vested interest either way. I wasn't sure if you were aware of the possibility of other inclusions in the set other than signed gum cards.

I am making the assumption it works the same as the baseball autograph sets, I apologize if that is not the case.

-Josh >>



Josh,

For this particular set, the description is that it consists of autographed cards. I've been researching the issue and there weren't many oddball football sets that would have included many of the original founders/players if they didn't have a regular issue card (1935 National Chicle, 1955 Topps All American, ect..). To be included in the set, the card doesn't have to be a regular issue. ANY card would be eligible - even 1977 Touchdown cards, Swell cards, Fleer Immortal cards, ect - as long as they are autographed.

Regards,

Greg M.

CopperJJ

Greg,

I agree with your points.....The set should be weighted and if SMR lists cards Impossible to obtain...then they should not be included.


JJ

liffeystynx

I'm collecting the Baseball HOF autographs and interestingly, SMR doesn't list anyone as IMP. Some are N/A, others UNK (unknown) but only in the case of specific types of cards (B/W or Gold HOF-issued postcards) is the term IMP used.

If the same proposal was put in relation to the BB HOF autographs, I would have to say I would be opposed to dropping anyone. Some have proved fiendishly difficult to find, but new cut signatures (especially in the SP Legendary Cuts issues) are appearing all the time and at the moment, my attitude is its part of the challenge of these sets.

Definitely just my two cents,
Jonathan

Fabfrank

I've submitted a few cards this last month in anticipation of starting this set. I agree with Greg that there should be some weighting. Since any autograph card of a particular player can be used, some are easier to obtain than others. How do you than determine the weighting? For example an SP Authentic J. Riggins ($40) autograph is harder to get than say a Donruss autograph ($25) (not sure on the exact pricing, but just an example). So how do you than weight the card?

As for whether or not to exclude those names that don't yet have autograph cards, I'm for leaving them in. PSA could make a notation until a card comes to market (such as a Legendary cut).

I feel this set is going to be unlike any other on the Registry and will evolve from it's current form. This type of dynamic as well as the history involved in this set will make it a truely unique endeavor.

jradke4

I was under the impression that they cards were to be hand signed. Since they allow cut autographs then all persons should be left in the set as any company could make a cut sig card. This would save the hassles of having them add the set. After all we all know how long this takes.

I think it would be hard to have a sliding scale for each person as to the weight of the card. For instance, a Vince Lombardi cut sig card might be easier to come by than someone who was lucky/smart enough to have him sign say his Fleer "Play/Bubble" card. I would say it would be hard to find the hand signed card than a cut card. It just seems like they would be unable to deal with this. Anyway, the way the other sets work if you are the first to submitt a new card they let you suggest a weight.

Maybe some of these collections should be voted on by collectors as to who has the top sets in the categories. It might also prompt more people to include pics of their cards as well. I am sure not many people out there, especially people that can afford the prices of some of these cards dont have either a scanner or digital camera. Not to mention one would think this would help with insurance issues if they would arise.

gregm13

<< <i>I've submitted a few cards this last month in anticipation of starting this set. I agree with Greg that there should be some weighting. Since any autograph card of a particular player can be used, some are easier to obtain than others. How do you than determine the weighting? For example an SP Authentic J. Riggins ($40) autograph is harder to get than say a Donruss autograph ($25) (not sure on the exact pricing, but just an example). So how do you than weight the card?

As for whether or not to exclude those names that don't yet have autograph cards, I'm for leaving them in. PSA could make a notation until a card comes to market (such as a Legendary cut).

I feel this set is going to be unlike any other on the Registry and will evolve from it's current form. This type of dynamic as well as the history involved in this set will make it a truely unique endeavor. >>



Frank,

I think you would weight the autograph based on the difficulty of obtaining it - versus weighting the card itself. For instance, I could have a Dan Marino auto #'d out of 10 that would theoretically be weighted higher than his autograph from another issue that is #'d out of 1000. However, my opinion is that the weighting should be based on the player's popularity PLUS the difficulty of obtaining the autograph. For instance, Hank Jordan isn't considered a top tier HOFer but his autograph is very tough to obtain because he died at a young age (42) plus he was inducted to the HOF well after his death (something like 18 to 20 years later). I hate to say it, but the difficulty of obtaining an autograph would directly be linked to when the player died and his age at time of death. Another issue is how many cards a player had issued. Someone like Fritz Pollard never had a regular issue card and I don't know if there were any oddball issues that were made of him which he could have signed. I agree that the cut signatures are a great source for tough to find autographs, however even those don't include all the HOFers.

The baseball HOF auto set is a little different because most players had cards issued (since baseball cards were issued back to the late 1800's). Football only had one regular set issued before 1948 - and even that set (1935 National Chicle) has only 36 cards in the set).

Regards,

Greg M.

envoy98

I was not aware of it requiring a card, not just the autograph regardless of it's medium. In that case it is going to be much more difficult. I agree with the weighting, but then I've always liked the weighting scale and in some sets every card is a 1 and doesn't really reflect the difficulty of obtaining a given autograph. On a side note, there isn't much in the way of cut signatures for football products. Leaf Limited does a little bit but other than that they are pretty limited to being sticker autos of living players. Football does not get the same luxury with cut autographs that baseball does with SP Legendary Cuts.

The people that are doing the set should be the ones helping it evolve. Once I start the set I'm sure I'll have two cents to toss in as well.

Regardless of what happens, it would be a fantastic set to attempt and very impressive upon completion.

Good luck with it!

-Josh

Fabfrank

think you would weight the autograph based on the difficulty of obtaining it - versus weighting the card itself. For instance, I could have a Dan Marino auto #'d out of 10 that would theoretically be weighted higher than his autograph from another issue that is #'d out of 1000

Greg, this is exactly why I think weighting would be difficult for this set. When you figure weighting for a set, any set, you are comparing all the cards in that one set. With this HOF Autograph set, the card that can be inserted can cross over dozens of sets. It's like comparing apples and oranges.

There was a recent article in Beckett football (no snide comments now) stating how football is waaay behind baseball in regards to HOF Cut signature product. The article also stated the card companies would be rectifying that by issue more football signature product in the near future.

The beauty of this set is that it allows you to include any card. Whether it be mainstream, from an oddball set or a card still yet to be created. It may even add additional value to any future product that might have the first card of a Fritz Pollard. As much as we might like weighting for this set, I would gladly forego that for flexibility.

shouldabeena10

I'd have to agree with Fabfrank on this one ... even though he's reading Beckett articles and sniping waaay to many 1950 Bowman's lately

It seems like it would be next to impossible to compare (and weight) different cards/years/auto's, and the more flexible the set can be would probably add to the fun of building it. Either way, it sounds like a great set to attempt.

Mike

jradke4

This post is slightly off topic from thread. But today I tried to start a FB HOF Auto set. When I entered the cert of my Jim Brown Topps Team Auto card it said cert not associated with this set. I know what that means. My question is will this happen for every card that I enter. Therefore, making me wait for one of BJ's staff to enter the card in the database. I know this usually happens fast, but it also means that it takes them away from updating cards for other sets as well as bring new sets online.

gregm13

<< <i>This post is slightly off topic from thread. But today I tried to start a FB HOF Auto set. When I entered the cert of my Jim Brown Topps Team Auto card it said cert not associated with this set. I know what that means. My question is will this happen for every card that I enter. Therefore, making me wait for one of BJ's staff to enter the card in the database. I know this usually happens fast, but it also means that it takes them away from updating cards for other sets as well as bring new sets online. >>



We you get a message that a cert isn't associated w/ the set - an e-mail is automatically generated to PSA customer service. They will add the card to the set generally w/i 24 hours at which time you can add it. The only catch is that they don't let you know the cert has been added. I usually wait 24 hours and try to add the card again. 99% of the time the card has been added - and your set is updated!!

Are you going to start collecting the set? If so, I have around 10 autographed HOF cards that I'm looking to sell or trade (none are graded). Please let me know.

Regards,

Greg M.

Fabfrank

Greg- Which cards do you have. I might be interested. Are they hand-signed? Email or PM when you get achance.
Frank

gregm13

Frank - PM sent. Going through everyone's posts, maybe the right thing to do is to leave all the HOF players in the set and not weight it. I can agree that leaving all the players in the set is a good idea for now - because hopefully more cut signature cards will hit the market in upcoming products. In addition, I really don't have a good list of which players have cards and which ones don't. I could make an educated guess but it wouldn't be 100% correct.

The other issue is about weighting and I'm still undecided. My thought is this - regardless of the card registered for a certain player, the weighting should still be the same. The weighting is based upon the rarity (and popularity) of the specific signature - not the "medium" which it is on. For instance, a Dan Marino autographed card should probably be weighted a 3, since he is popular but the auto is not difficult to find, but it wouldn't matter which Marino autographed card that was registered. My thought is this - I don't want to weight a Jim Thorpe (who would probably be one of the more expensive signatures) the same as a Raymond Berry (who signs for nearly every autographed set that comes out). Just my two cents, but I want to discuss this and see if people agree, and if so can we agree to a weighting system. I think this set could be one of the greatest fb sets to collect and I am very excited to begin the challenge - and it seems there are quite a few other collectors who are interested in the set.

Regards,

Greg M.

Fabfrank

Greg- I see your point about the weighting and the Marino and Berry examples are true. I guess you couldn't be able to begin to get an accurate weighting until there is at least one card for every HOF'er in the set.
I'll start building this set soon and whether there is weighting or not, I'm gonna have a good time doing it

markglicker

Sounds good.

jradke4

I can agree. Clearly almost all Grange/Lombardi/Hutson etc. cards are all going to have to be cut sigs with rare examples. So if someone had a hand signed card of a deceased HOFer (died prior to Auto card inserts or early on with few issused ie Payton and soon to be Reggie White), that card would be just as rare if not potenetially rarer than a cut sig. There are tons of Lombardi cancelled checks out there as he signed nearly all of the checks when he was with the Packers. I do think that deceased HOF's should have higher weightings than say...Marino, Elway, Starr, Montana etc that have a multitude of signed cards out there already.