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BAIT AND SWITCH ON EBAY

bought a card, got another card within the same grade...psa 9...but more OC (in my mind could have got the qualifier).....the guy thinks im crazy for wanting the centered one i orginally bought on his ebay auction....NO DIFFERENCE IN VALUE HE SAYS...WELL..depending on how he handles this.....his identity may be disclosed....he has 1466 feedback on ebay. After suggesting that he send the original to me and i would send his out at the same time...and telling him i could not make it to the post office till friday (im an intern and work like a dog!!) this was the response I got:

I have located the Brady card you purchased, what you have to realize is a PSA 9 is a PSA 9. Just because you feel one is centered better doesnt make it less valuable. I am able to sell an unlimited amount of Brady cards that are graded PSA 9, for more than you paid for the card. Your fixation of judging centering of a slabbed card (PSA 9), being better than another is pure crap. If you do not return the card sold to you within 7 days I will no longer offer you a replacement. I dont care if you dont have time to go to the post office. I dont have time to deal with someone who doesnt understand graded cards, Feel free to give me a negative, individuals like you dont carry a whole lot of weight compared to my more reliable customer base. Yea right, Ill send the other Brady card so you have two PSA 9's and Im out 2 cards and have already provided you with positive feedback. Maintain your attitude and I will no longer respond to your emails.

Apparently i misunderstood that he may actually trust someone with great feedback...like i did giving him a 62 dollar payment for a psa 9 2000 chrome brady card 5 seconds after the auction ended. How would he be out 2 cards if i paid him 62 dollars in the first place??? A paypal claim has been filed after reading that above....and if he so chooses i may just disclose who he is to be truly forthcoming with this Bait and Switch ebayer.

EVERYONE...YOUR THOUGHTS????

Comments

  • kuhlmannkuhlmann Posts: 3,326 ✭✭
    EVERYONE...YOUR THOUGHTS????

    YEAH I thought you were an eagles fan?? LOL j/k man

    I wouldnt buy from him after his email reply!
  • Lothar52,

    He clearly did not ship you the item you won in the auction. How can he not understand this?

    If it were me and he remains unwilling to send you the right card, I strongly suggest that you identify him here so that no one else falls victim to his tactics.

    Chris
  • Identity, please, Loth? This guy is a J-E-R-K.
  • zef204zef204 Posts: 4,742 ✭✭
    I think he should give you the card pictured. I think you are preaching to the choir here because we all know that all PSA 9's are not created equal. Hopefully this thread will get a good response and you can point him to this thread and he will realize THAT HE IS WRONG!

    I sell a lot on eBay and I have no tolerance for people like this.


    I had similar issue with what you are talking with sidsgraphs except I was buying ungraded. This guy has tons of 76 Cubs and White Sox and a few 64 fb cards. I bought probably about 200 from him because they were surprisingly mint. But never once did I get the card pictured. If I won a 76 Goose Gossage sometimes it was worse centered than the one I got, sometimes it actually was better.

    Sellers that don't get that the centering issue is of high importance, graded or not, just simply don't get it. I do however think that they are obligated to actually sell you the card that is pictured.

    I do want to applaud the seller that he gave you + before recieving it, but that does put him at a disadvantage. Loth, we all know that you are not looking to take advantage of him and are just looking to get the actual card you won, but he doesn't know that.

    Regardless, he should send you the right card. Personally, as a seller I have mistakenly sent the wrong card from time to time. What I do is send out the right card with an additional SASE or SASBM(bubble mailer) and kindly ask the buyer to send me back the incorrect card in the SASE when they get the card they actually won.

    GL, let us know
    EAMUS CATULI!

    My Auctions
  • AhmanfanAhmanfan Posts: 4,353 ✭✭✭✭
    He did not give you the exact card you bid on... that's all there is too it.
    Collecting
    HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
  • sixdartsixdart Posts: 821 ✭✭
    Because of people like this, I always e-mail prior to bidding to confirm that the card imaged is the exact card being sold ... and save the response. Most sellers are fairly honest and will state that they use a sample pic.
  • did he use d/c with the delivery? if not i'd go that route and not waste time on this person...due to his repsonse. and that response deserves exposure of the seller.
  • You are 100% correct.
    All 9's are not created equal and you should get what was pictured.
    Give 'em hell Harry! image
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Wow, this seller is a real piece of work. A card with a PSA 9 is not the same as other PSA 9s of the same card. REAL collectors know this.

    A seller with that kind of response will have the whole collecting community in disapproval to say the least. Reveal his ID. I dont want to bid on items from this type of seller.

    Thanks for bringing this up. I have not thought about bait and switch on ebay. I always figured the card pictured is the card for sale. Some sellers do indicate outright if a card has a sample scan or the actual scan--that is how it should be. This seller should include a line in all his auction descriptions that winning bidders wont receive exact card pictured, that the image is a sample. If he did that, things will be fine. Because he did no do this, that is misleading and fraudulant.

    Reveal his ID and maybe we can educate him on this concept as a public courtesy.

    The above post about not wasting time on this seller... if he had no delivery confirmation---I get it. It could solve the problem although the method is not ideal. That is something each individual must decide for themselves. If the ends justify the means, is it just? Your intention would be not to deceive but to set things right for yourself and the seller--kind of like a reset button. Good luck in getting a remedy.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • The following text is taken right from the SMR:

    Price Premiums
    Price premiums may apply to those cards that exhibit high-end characteristics for the grade. For example, there are PSA graded NM-MT 8’s that may have just missed reaching Mint 9 status and others that just missed the Near Mint 7 grade. There are strengths within each grade, it’s entirely logical and expected. The prices you see in SMR are for those cards that exhibit average qualities for the particular grade. In other words, if you happen to run across a very high-end 1956 Topps Mickey Mantle in PSA NM-MT 8, the seller may be asking a premium based on the quality. Depending on the strength of the card and the scarcity within that particular grade, a small or major premium may be added to the price. For the most part, premiums should be reasonable and not too drastic.

    There ya have it. Experienced collectors know this to be the case as well. I personally look at a card and make a judgement on whether it is weak, so-so, or strong for it's grade. Then I bid accordingly. Saying that all PSA 9's are created equal is foolish. You bid on the card pictured and that is what you should get. The guy is being unprofessional in light of your reasonable expectation. I would not bid on anything of his and would encourage everyone I knew in the hobby to follow suit.
  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    His intersting response from a Thermal Engineer from EDITED....who i think would know better that my claims are not unreasonable to simply send the cards at the same time (of course i told him if he is uncomfortable with this he could simply wait till i mail the card out FRIDAY after my residency interviews and start of new pediatric rotation).

    Loth, looks like your response was to lay claim to your purchase as fraud in attempts to acquire a mid-level sportscard for free. I am a thermal engineer for EDITED. Im sorry that you have chosen healthcare as an occupation. I am not obligated to discuss this transaction with you , its a $50 sportscard not a Ferrai. If it will help you out emotionally and financially keep the card at no cost. Look at it like a gift. Anything to help somebody from Ohio to give me peace. I have sold items on Ebay for quite some time, you must realize that your request is unfounded and unreasonable, but like I said in the previous email, return the card and I will send the issue shown in the scan, period end of disscussion. I as an alternative refund the entire auction price with shipping plus $10 if you will just stop making this a huge issue. Its your decision, you are aware of my mailing address, my offer has a limited amount of time, 7 days after auction close as stated in my ad for product return.

    ....another paragraph with personal stuff I will not disclose....

    WHAT YA ALL THINK ABOUT THAT??? I have sent him a link to this post for the simple reason that he needs to understand that HE IS WRONG ABOUT CENTERING and that all i wanted was my original card and that damn all if he cant just send it around the same time i send mine...i mean come on...HE HAS MY MONEY INITIALLY!!?!?!?!?!?!!!!
  • StingrayStingray Posts: 8,843 ✭✭✭
    What is Ebay's point of view on this type of thing? If someone has several PSA 9 of the exact same card, but there are definate centering differences and the seller only shows a picture of one and states he is selling only one, but sends one that is a different cert. # than the one shown. Did it state in the auction, you will received the exact item pictured or I have several of the same card in the same grade?

    Stingray
  • I state in my auctions that the card shown is the one sold. If I have several examples of the same card I post separate scans and compare the cards when they are sold to make sure the right one is sent.

    I expect the same treatment from sellers.

    Send him back the card. Take your money back, and tell us all who he is.

    Just the comments about selling these cards all day for more, blah, blah, is reason enough. You're not selling cars man. Send the card with the cert. # in the picture.

    Thermal engineer....so what. You're still playing with cards like the rest of us moron.
  • julen23julen23 Posts: 4,558 ✭✭
    This may of been asked already, but does he specify whether or not the image shown is the ACTUAL CARD being sold?

    Regardless, he is narrow-minded and a fool, give up the seller's ID!!!!

    Julen
    image
    RIP GURU
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    From the description:

    Offered here is a Tom Brady 2000 Bowman Chrome Rookie Card #236. This card is in Mint condition and graded a PSA 9. The serial number of the slab is 30938847. Buy with confidence after review of my excellent sellers feedback. You will not be disappointed with this transaction.

    Quarterback: New England Patriots

    College: Michigan



    Sounds like you got shafted.


    I did not state the sellers ID as Loth has stated he would when ready.
    And of course, if I have the correct ebay transaction.
    SD
    Good for you.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    This is a fantastic example of a buyer making a bad situation worse. I went through this exact same debacle countless times when I was hoarding 2003 Toppps Chrome Lebrons, and each time I emailed the seller back and politely informed them that the card I received wasn't the card pictured in the auction, and that I was mailing back the card I received with the expectation of receiving either a refund or the card pictured in the auction. Not once did the seller neglect to send me back the proper card-- and I had to do this no less than 15 times.

    Who can blame the seller? Sure he's a jerk, but given the number of angle shooters out there it's just not reasonable to expect him to drop another card in the mail without getting the original one back.
  • GolfcollectorGolfcollector Posts: 1,369 ✭✭✭
    I would Neg him
    Dave Johnson- Big Red Country-Nebraska
    Collector of Vintage Golf cards! Let me know what you might have.
  • I once bought a Cool Papa Bell autographed gold HOF postcard. The card and auto were raw. I submitted the auto to quick opinion and it came back "likely Genuine". I won the card.

    BAIT AND SWITCH!

    Got a different card with a different auto. What's worse is that the original card and auto were when he was in good health. The auto was very clean and sharp. The card I got had an auto from when he was ill (I believe that he had a stroke). These auto's are very sloppy and barely legible. Although it may still be legit, I wanted his legible auto. Seller couldn't figure out what my problem was (I also bought a Jow McCarthy auto from him-the one I received was badly smeared-the scan was clean).

    I was so ticked off...
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Boo

    a person that pays 5 seconds after the auction is not an angle shooter. The seller in this case IS. If the ebay description above is any indication (and I am 99% sure it is correct) then the seller should do everything in his power to make this right. Not claim at first that all PSA 9's are the same. I do agree that Loth should just mail it back and get his dough. At this point I'd tell the guy to keep his card. I would also expect that postage be paid by the seller on both ends. A negative would also be appropriate in this case too.


    Loth I am sorry this happened to you.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • carew4mecarew4me Posts: 3,462 ✭✭✭✭
    No question. The guy listed the Serial# and the pic is of that same card. I dont understand the sellers position on this.

    Ebay would back you up on this as his auction was very clear on the specific card being auctioned, which you did not get.

    Loves me some shiny!
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭
    Loth- Can you post a link to the auction so we can see exactly what he said AND we know who to be careful when buying from? Thanks.
  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    I do not know if i can exactly post his identification without legal ramifications...he recently replied after viewing this post and i am happy he did so:

    Loth, you can spin this anyway you like, I offered you the correct card, admitted I made a purely unintentional mistake, (not bait and switch) you can see from my feedback that I do not commit fraud and take peoples money or there would be evidence in my feedback. I lost my temper for you indicating this mixup was intentional. I apologize for the sarcastic tone and negative comments in previous emails.

    My response:

    apology accepted and it will be stated that you said so on the psaboards.

    Along the same lines I also .... by my feedback ....show that I do not screw people over either. (persons name), and i say this in a easy tone my friend...not mocking you at all... I never said that i didnt trust you to send my end of the card alone..i simply suggest that we do it at the same time and get it over with and done. I believe I also stated that you could look at my feedback and trust me...or simply wait for my end id get to the post office ASAP-which would have been friday....then i got the email that started that post which was angry and un-cooperative. Fearing that maybe you were turning south to run I filed a claim to protect myself...NOT to try and get a card for free. By all means id send the thing back if it was not owned by me.

    I dont know you (persons name), i dont want to for that matter bud i just simply want this completed satisfactorily for the both of us. If you want to send me a refund you will get your card back and the claim dropped...if you want to send the original cert # of brady card..the claim will be dropped and you will get your card back...Either way sir you need to make the next move here. I gave you 62 bucks and i have a card...will you trust me enough to send the card at the exact same time I send the one you sent me back?
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    My take on this matter?

    guy sent a different card cuz he did'nt get what he wanted for the centered one. he then goes on and on how a 9 is a 9 and that the buyer does not know graded cards etc. Typical jerk seller.

    I for one know who he is and will never purchase from him.

    SD
    Good for you.
  • envoy98envoy98 Posts: 4,000 ✭✭
    me too

    Ryan, I'd send him his card back and tell him to shove. But that's just me. image
  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    Paypal has granted me a refund after I provide a tracking number from which I will send the card back....anybody ever gone though this situation before using paypal?? will the refund be in my paypal account shortly and after serveral months...and...will they take a percentage LOL????

    Loth
  • The seller's statement that all PSA 9s are the same value is meaningless. Even if it were true, which it's not, you may not have bid as high on the worse centered one that you received. I would not accept his apology. This guy needs to get is due. If a seller ever deserved a neg feedback he does. Jerk is not a strong enough word to describe him. One day he'll learn that treating customers like this is not in his best interest.

    Collecting Vintage Baseball.
    My ebay listings
  • It is possible that the seller did "lose his temper" when he sent
    his first response to you. BUT, the nonsense about "one 9 is the
    same as the next," flies in the face of what every person on this
    board KNOWS is the TRUTH. When you combine that FACT with the PSA
    serial number having been listed in the auction, the seller is either
    "not informed," or he is not being honest.

    There are some REALLY sleazy sellers/buyers on scambay. And,
    there are some good ones, too.

    While it would be nice to know who the instant seller is - so that
    I could be SURE to avoid him - I understand the buyer's reluctance
    to "out" the guy. I have got a list of "slimes" that I also do not
    want to post publicly about. (Of course, now that this board
    knows the details of the transaction, the seller's ID is ez to
    determine.)

    FACT: "Powerseller" does NOT mean jack. USUALLY, they are the worst
    of the worst.

    Cher

  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    UPDATE

    today i recieved a full refund from paypal via the seller for the card which we discussed earlier....i guess paypal system DOES work. I have invited that seller to join the boards but he fears you all will hate him...how about letting by-gones be by-gones is what I say!!!

    Loth


  • << <i>I have invited that seller to join the boards but he fears you all will hate him... >>

    let's see..................
    1) Seller posts scan and description (including Serial number) of one card, then upon sale, ships a totally different card.

    2) Seller refuses to even acknowledge he has done anything wrong when confronted.

    3) Seller refuses to give refund or exchanged.

    4) A Paypal payment reversal is nessessary to get your money back (because of #3)

    and he "fears" we all will hate him? Hmmmmmm I would say his fears are quite real and justifide. I am just shocked you will have anything to do with him. You a Buddist or something? image
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Loth

    glad to hear u got your dough back.


    Steve
    Good for you.
  • Lothar52Lothar52 Posts: 2,664 ✭✭✭
    hahaaha...maybe im a buddhist...i dont know...i think after emailing him back and forth after the paypal claim went through he really did BELIEVE he was right...he knows better now...

    by the way the 62 bucks is GONE...used it for a heritage case pre-order for 2006 heritage baseball image
  • gregm13gregm13 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭
    I just had a similiar experience with seller hull9howe999 on E-Bay. I bought a 1977 Touchdown autographed Benny Friedman card for $250 and the scan in the auction showed a nicely centered card. The card I received was off-centered 65/35 and there was a small ding in the top left corner. I e-mailed the seller and he was very nice about it. He agreed to meet me (we live 1/2 hour apart) on one of the coldest nights this year. He exchanged the card he sent for the card pictured in the auction and was incredibly nice. He explained that if he has multiple of the same card, he only scans one. I don't belive his "bait and switch" was intentional - but he rectified the problem with class.

    Regards,

    Greg M.
    Collecting vintage auto'd fb cards and Dan Marino cards!!

    References:
    Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
    E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I don't belive his "bait and switch" was intentional



    Intentional or not it did not work. With that said, by now anyone, that sells cards knows the importance of sending the actual card scanned, or mentioning the fact that duplicates exist and therefore not the one pictured is sent. that technique is mainly used for dollar cards. 250.00 cards shown centered, and sent OC, is a "get over if I can" scam. In the above case the seller did the right thing only cuz he knew things would get ugly.
    And rightly so.
    JMO


    Steve


    Good for you.
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