Question on Business strike vs. Satin Matte Bisons

2manycoins2fewfunds

I see PCGS is now listing both versions in price guide.

Question is are all coins in 500 or 1000 coin bags 'business strikes'?? How about the 2 roll sets??

I ask because there is a very wide difference in finishes from early to late bags and even among coins from same bag. Some appear matte like while others are appear more high polished.

Thoughts???

cladking

Mint set nickel dies are used for only about 35,000 strikes and then retired. This may be
a little different this year due to changing standards and different wear rates and patterns
caused by both designs and by the chrome plating. In the past it wasn't unusual to use re-
tired mint set dies to strike regular issues. There has long been a lot of variability in processes
which will affect a small or significant portion of production. I'm surprised they'd allow satin finish
coins to appear in rolls or bags but these are probably from retired dies and could be dies intended
for mint sets which went astray or regular dies which were inadvertantly chromed.

Conder101

<< <i>Question is are all coins in 500 or 1000 coin bags 'business strikes'?? How about the 2 roll sets?? >>


These are all busines strikes. The satin finish only come in the mint sets and the six coin nickel sets. Voyage of discovery or whatever they are called.

2manycoins2fewfunds

Thanks!!
Bill

TwoSides2aCoin

I had a post earlier about the satin finish with regard to the Lincoln cents.
I was travelling east a few months back and latched on to a couple of 2005 bank wrapped rolls of Lincolns, not wanting the satin finish for submission.

Of course, like I do on occasion, I cherry picked, searching for errors and gems.
I didn't find any errors out of 100 business strikes, but I did take liberty to send the three nicest coins in to PCGS for grading, along with all the other coins I picked out of original bank rolls. Boy that grading is expensive and tough, too.

submission # 3302893
Note the cents in this submission:

MS66 Satin Finish
MS66 Satin Finish
MS67 Satin Finish

Conder, that might be true with the nickels, but surely not the pennies.

BuffaloIronTail

The Satin Finish is only a mint and proof set thing.

You still need to find nice circulation coins to add to the year set......for all denominations. as these are different.

That's the rub.........try to find nice stuff out there.

2manycoins2fewfunds

Here is the problem.

Going through some mint bags of 500 and 1000 I pulled out some examples hoping for a high grade business strike as they are tough to find in MS65 and up.

Problem is some of the ones I pulled sure look like satin matte finish.

Big price difference between a business strike MS66/67 and a satin matte in same grade.

Thoughts??

Conder101

Thoughts?

Simple, PCGS can't always tell the satin finish from the business strikes. Why? Because the finish is not distinctive enough, and the mint sets are quite variable in the quality of the satin finish. It is the same problem as with the 1965 - 67 Special Mint Sets. You can't tell a high quality business strike from an average Mint set piece so they get mis-identified. Especially when there is a big difference in price. NGC recognized that this was going to be a problem so they will only give the Satin Finish designation if the coins are submitted in the government holders. Of course this means that you can find high quality coins in mint sets that don't have the satin finish, cut them out of the set, send them to NGC and they will come back as the "rare" high grade business strikes. But high quality coins submitted to PCGS will come back as satin finish whether they are or not because it reduces PCGS's liability unless the fields and devices are truly "brilliant".



<< <i>Conder, that might be true with the nickels, but surely not the pennies. >>


Sorry, it's true for the cents as well.

quarterguy

Conder101.... wrong...wrong....wrong!!

I have sent in 100s of the 2005 mint set coins to NGC.

All were cut out of the mint packaging and ALL came back SMS (Satin Finish)

Sorry but you stand corrected

Conder101

Ok, I stand corrected, I was repeating what NGC had said they were going to do. Obviously NGC lied. What do you expect from a TPG.

p8nt

It is possible to get a Satin Finish Bison into a business strike holder. I bought one of them off of Teletrade.



I wish I still had my pictures of it. But the coin is long gone now.

quarterguy

Conder101

You are correct about NGC making this statement but obviously they haven't followed through with what they said.

I was wondering if PCGS and NGC will ever give weight to business strike 2005 coins in their registry sets.

Anyone have an opinion on this?

I don't think they will.

I have sent many business strike coins to PCGS only to have them come back slabbed as satin finish coins. I do not know why this happens so much. Many of these coins were obviously business strikes and you wouldn't have to be an "expert" to know it.

Of course it can happen the other way too but it has never happened to me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Michael

rb7557

pcgs has also had a problem with their database since the release of the sf coins. I bought a sf WV-p ealier in the year, if I remember correctly, in a sf holder. When I plugged it into my registry it showed up as a business strike coin, no sf designation. Had to send pics of the obv and rev to the powers that be, so they could clean up the mess. Now it shows up correctly in the set. But I have to wonder how messed up their pop report is, not on just the shq's but all of the normal circulating 05 coins. And will this problem continue to occur through
08?

2manycoins2fewfunds

Reply to all................

I agree it is difficult if not impossible to tell some of the last mint bagged Bisons from the Satin Matte in sets.

I think I'll just save some submission fees and only consider sending in those with a high polished/chrome like finish. They can easily be distinguished from Satin Matte and are IMO far more attractive. Only problem is they are very hard to find above MS 61-63!!

F117ASR

Condor might be right. I have seen some 2005 Kennedy Halves that were obviously SMS, labled as business strikes by NGC. It is this that has dettered me from buying any 2005 business strikes in a TPG holder.