Russian rouble question
worldcoinguy
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When is a russian rouble considered a novodel, and when is it just a plain fake? Are the terms the same to the russian numismatic community?
Russian Novodel
Russian Novodel
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Gene
Life member #369 of the Royal Canadian Numismatic Association
Member of Canadian Association of Token Collectors
Collector of:
Canadian coins and pre-confederation tokens
Darkside proof/mint sets dated 1960
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I have seen several coins that were called Novodels that were nothing more than copies, reproductions or fakes.
I look forward to seeing other explanations of this term, and I hope I am correct.
Bob
<< <i>I may be wrong, but my understanding of a Novodel, is a special edition minted from the original dies for museums and collectors. These are very high quality and in many cases better than the original coins were.
Bob >>
That's part of it. The other part is that they are typically struck with new dies and they are struck later than the date on the coin. If the date on the coin is 1735 - a novodel of this coin may have struck into the 1800's. In other words they are similar to a restrike.
The Borodin ruble in that link is a counterfeit which currently seems to be coming out from the Baltic states. Notice that the spagetti hair on the Tsar Alexsander I. That is not an acceptable novodel or even a restrike.
Here are some pictures here of the hair of Alexsander I by Gube Fecit and the counterfeit.
Firstly, notice this counterfeit that I have and look at the hair.
And a possible genuine Borodin Ruble:
And finally a genuine 1834 Alexsander Column Ruble *different theme but almost similar design of the Tsar*
Now apologizes for the awful small pictures, but I do believe that you get the picture. Afterall, Borodin rubles are somewhat scarce and are in serious demands. Even a counterfeit like that has been screaming over 100dollars *SADLY*. I actually did buy two counterfeits to study them and they seem to be quite "horrifying"
Now back to the novodel question. Novodel should not be simply put in terms of a restrike, and in fact, is a more generic term for a lot of processes. In fact, restrike should be considered as a subset of a novodel. Traditionally, Russia has been doing these so called "restrikes" and "overstrikes" which were struck a lot later from the first struck coins. But the subtle difference is how the strikes were done, possible "odd" die combinations, and edge technology has differed. Of course, that goes without saying that metal refined process has developed over time. In simple terms, a restrike is simply an exact strike of a previous coin struck later but often, there is no additional process made to the restruck coins or dies. A novodel on the other hand is a more broad and a loose defination of such as coins restruck later could be struck in different planchets, dies were mixed and different edging.
One of the best example would be the Family Ruble supposely minted in 1835 (1.5ruble - 10 zlot). The story goes as these coins were minted for the high rank officers or family members but these were not massively minted. Yet, there were 4 varities of these as one was an unapproved version, one cracked, one was to replaced the cracked die and finally a mysterious die which seem to have appeared from nowhere. Of course, it would be hard to believe that all 4 dies were used at the same time. In fact, the St. Petersburg mint seem to have kept record that one of the dies were served as late till 1847. Complicated isn't it?
Some other known examples are the scarce platinum coinage, and there seemed to be at least two major restrikes after that, as recent mass spectrometer studies seem to indicate that three distinct alloys were used and they cannot be possibly be made in the same time due to the refining technology.
As for why novodels are struck? Why not, as the original coins are often too scarce or because the coins had a hard life. Even if you are to be able to *locate* an excellent original coin, the price is often too prohibitive.
But do be aware, with the recent scarce Imperial Russian coins and demand going rocket high, the number of counterfeit coins are exploding out really fast and everyday you would get to see one on scambay. Good place for the scammers I guess.
Hope this helps a bit...
Often there are times when mints did not mint certain coins in a particular year. Later generation could have just made new dies to fill in the "spots", i.e. to fill in a type set. (I don't suggest you to get an Imperial Russian complete year type set though)
An example that I have is here:
This is a perfect example of a novodel as this is a design that was not supposed to be released out to the public or it has been rejected but somehow it got loose. It can be possible that this coin was struck a lot later to test out the prototype and tried to circulate it but failed miserably.
You can also say that patterns could be novodels as they were made some time before the actual striking. Odd combinations of dies that are used to strike coins, such as using a medal die on one side against a proper coin die is also qualified as a novodel.
Confusing but that's how novodels are defined...
Does it make any difference who struck the coin? In other words, is a novodel only struck at the mint/government on an official or semi-official basis? As compared with a private person, who is making counterfeits?
And does it matter when the novodel was made? In other words, a 1750-dated coin struck as a novodel in 1850, that seems more legitimate than one struck in 1995.
Novodel were mainly done for very few reasons, which usually was meant for collectors or possibly there were not enough dies to strike some particular coins. While there were several major "restriking" events happening in any period of time, it is up to one to decide which is more valuable. Typically, if you can find an original coin in the same condition as a novodel (quite unlikely), often it is worth a lot more than it's novodel procedures. Suppose if I gave you a proof sample of a 1710 kopek - will you believe that it was struck in that time? Possibly, but it would be more likely be a novodel.
Another example would be the Gangut ruble and 1915 rubles, as quite a fair bit of novodels were struck but there is no indiction of how they differ. Possibly a mass spectrometer test is required to tell the difference in the alloy differences.
The real difference between a novodel and a counterfeit would be the differences of dies used. Unless the counterfeiters got their hands on stolen dies from the mints, it will be quite unlikely that they could have reproduced the exact details. In order to strike a novodel die, the same die that was used to strike a particular coin years ago have to be used. I guess the Russian mentality of such coins would be that if a die is perfectly suitable to strike coins, why shouldn't one use it. This is shown in the 1797 Paul overstriking coinage even as double denomination coins made temporarily in 1796 were overstriked as the year 1793 mostly.
As to if counterfeited Russian coins are collectable, often I would say no, but the real exceptions are a few odd coins, which is a 5 kopeck coin counterfeited by the Sweds, Russian copy of the Ducat, and the Russian made of the Turkish Para coins. I would recommand you to get a copy of Uzedenikov as I cannot possibly simplify his 600+ pages of works into here.
P.S. Several examples would be here: Link
Most of his copper coins are copies and I wouldn't recommand you to get one unless you want one as a coin filler in your collection.
Obverse
Reverse
I am still learning much on this subject and have avoided buying a lot of really rare or expensive coins simply because the inability to definitively determine the difference between original strike, novodel and counterfeit in some issues leaves me really queasy.
I will see if this Russian expert can help shed some more light on the subject.
Here is his website:
Alex Basok
Nick
PS-He has some nice material! Worked at Harlan J. Berk in Chicago, ANA member.
Yes, the actual mintage of the 1915 ruble seems to be at around 5,000 and hence making it quite scarce. But during the Soviet era, around the early 1920s, the Soviet numisatics society actually requested novodels of this to be made together with the Gangut ruble. And hence, a large amount of these were produced but there is no actual figure of how many were minted. Even many Russian catalougues would not put an estimate how many novodels were made.
But remember a 1915 ruble like yours actually is quite expensive these days!!!!!!!! Put that on ebay and you will see some frantic bids on it.
<< <i>I was told by a Russian expert that most novodels were struck primarily for members of the Russian aristocracy who were also coin collectors. He said that coin collecting was a very popular hobby for the Royals, surrounding aristocracy and the wealthy and a lot of the restrikes were made for these people of influence.
>>
Agree. But likewise, novodels were made because they could not get hold of a decent example or there wasn't such date types available at that time or just too scarce. That still doesn't make a novodel cheap though because there are some, if not quite a fair bit that are genuinely scarce.
And yes, Alexsander Basok is an excellent dealer to talk to when it comes to Russian coins.
Regarding the 1915 novodel issue, the timing is interesting. Given the political and social change in 1917/1918, I find it interesting that most of the coins were struck years later in the 1920s after the imperial family disappeared from the landscape in Russia. Perhaps numismatics were a connection to good memories in prior years for members of the aristocracy in Russia?
One other thought for you outside of the numismatic world. I just finished reading a novel by Steve Berry entitled "The Romanov Prophecy". Granted the story is a bit fanciful, but it is a fictional look at circumstances surrounding the execution of the tsars family in 1918, with conspiracy overtones about how it relates to the modern day politics and money in Russia. I thoroughly enjoyed the book, and if you have just a slight interest in Russian history you might enjoy it as well. His style reminds me of Dan Brown (the guy who wrote The DaVinci Code).
-Brent